downunder

In one word, no. Jet A is a type of kerosene so it'll work quite well in model "diesel" fuel but definitely not in a glow engine. BTW, there's no such thing as a "nitro" engine, they're all glow engines which use mainly methanol with nitro being just an additive for those who want to use it.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

The question indicates that the role of nitro in glow fuel is misunderstood. While it does give a little more power to an engine and can make it run smoother, it is not an additive to turn an engine into a powerhouse.

rologti

Hi, i've read the complete thread (took me about 1 week), it's incredible the amount of knowledge that can be found here. Fuelman, you are doing a great job.

Now my question, but first, i don't know much about fuel, usually i've go to my LHS and ask "give me the best 30% nitro that you have for my buggy and truggy", that's all my knolwedge about it.

But last week, i visit another hobby shop, and i saw a carring bag for the fuel bottles, and it was like a cooler, so i've ask what was it. The guy of the shop told me something like this "nitro works better at lower temperatures, so people put the fuel bottles in the frezzer and when they are going to use the fuel, they put in this bag so the fuel last longer cool"

Questions:

1) It's true that is better to have fuel at about 2°C??
2) I've read a few theads before that if the fuel is too cool the oil could separate from the mixture (but with a few shakes you fix it), if this happens it's ok to cool the fuel?
3) If the answer to Q1 is yes, which are the benefits of a cooler fuel, somthing like cooler air (cooler air= more density=more oxygen)?

Thank's, and if the questions are a bit stupid (due to my poor knowledge), please leave a small insult, i'm just a newbie

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Thank you for your kind words. The majority of the wisdom in this thread is a sum of all its contributors so, thanks to all is appropriate.

As for cool or cold fuel. If the fuel has castor oil in it and more than a little nitromethane, then it is likely that some of the castor can fall out of suspension and become little snowflakes in the jug. its no big deal to just shake the jug or let it warm up a little if this happens.
Now, is it worthwile? In my professional opinion it is not worth it to cool the fuel. If there are any performance gains to be had, they would be quite small and more than likely not noticable. Fuel coolers are more of a gimmick than anything else and investing in good plugs and or pipes would be more worthy investimets in performance.

If more power is what you are looking for, then cool air is what you want. The colder the air, the more dense it is and the richer the needles need to be and the more power you can get. However it is not even remotely practical to cool the incoming air in a model glow engine. If the engine is under an RC car body, then keep the filter in an area that will get the most un-obstructed airflow to it so if any under body heat is trapped, the air filter is not getting much of it.

mcdanman2003

My Feedback: (3)

I just went out to the garage (getting cold here in Michigan) and I noticed oil residue all over the top of my fuel can. I use a manual crank with a steel cap and fittings - I can't rembmer the brand but it attaches to the metal handle of my fuel can. Did the temperature drop cause the oil to separate and ooze out onto the can top? Fuel is probably no good now?

I just double checked. The pump, cap and fittings is by Slimline. Supposed to be airtight. Only had one season.

skiman762

My guess is they're drips fuel that hit the can over time since the methonal has evaporated the oil left behind has thickend with the cold weather

MassiveMods

Give the fuel a good shake and pour 2 floz into a clean steel dish and light it ,... if it burns clean with a ghosty blue grey flame then its probably ok , then look at the oil left once burned , it should be clean . If it has flecks in the flame like red or green flecks then its got moisture or contaminats in it ..

balsaeater

Will this sticky ever include all known and experimental information on using other more non standard fuels like E85 and Iso alcohols and nitro ethanes etc and even include the range of semi mix gasoline glow combinations
If the sticky includes this information that may be useful for those without access to standard fuel mixes

Balsaeater

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Balsaeater,
Give me a combination you want tested and I'll try to find the chemicals, make it and test it.

balsaeater

RE:Fuelman

Thanks for the offer
My present local fuel costs are very high compared to USA but access to all fuel types exist

Its my new requirement for work in other world regions that makes other fuel types more interesting

Present local cost USA gallon equivalents
~$14 Methanol................BULK 55 gal $10
~$70 EDL
~$45 Castor
~$90 nitro methane
~$25 acetone ..................bulk 6 gal $20
~$ 6 E85
~$ 6 gasoline 5% Ethanol
~$50 denatured Ethanol 15% methanol ....55 gal bulk should be lot less


My requirements are for large motors 15cc to 35 cc glow all MVVS with the future purchases exceeding 50cc to be spark ignition gasoline
Also I refuse wherever possible to have any Castor and look for least possible Synthetic
Also prefer whenevr possible tuned pipe and zero nitro
Preference not to use glow driver and use hot plug OS F or similar
Preference to use lage engine in small plane at typically 1/3 to 1/2 regime on larger shollow pitch slower RPM prop

Ideal scenario E85 97% EDL 3% with MVVS range 15cc to 35 cc glow

My present requirements is to verify what E85 combinations would work in highest combinations

Suspect that 45% methanol ,40% E85 ,5% gasoline 3% acetone 7% EDL would work OK and give me best economy power ratio without requiring glow driver and only lose 10% power relative to normal straight glow version with 90% methanol ,10% EDL

The more I can drop the methanol acetone and EDL ratio and bump up the E85 the more saving I can make but not dropping power levels below 15% or requiring a constant glow driver

But for others out there other mixes are more interesting such as in Colombia South America they say they can get nitro ethane very cheap but impossible to get nitromethane

Lots of countries Denatured Ethanol (15% methanol 85% Ethanol)is the only Alcohol fuel available and they have to import the Castor or EDL which lucky isn't classed as HAZMAT and Nitro of any sort is non existant and acetone is very difficult to source

Which might even in the future be me if the job sends me somewhere clean of the normal map

So for all modelers world wide it interesting to verify all possible combinations and list the relevant issues power drops glow drivers glow plugs ETC so as to allow the most possible alternatives to be used

Ralf

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Balsa eater,
I guess I spoke too soon. I have no way of getting E85 or EDL. That pretty much takes all the experimentation out of what you wanted tested.
I do have an MVVS 26cc glow engine that would make a great test engine.

crashinator

May I butt in? If a guy wants to add castor oil, what kind, and where can he get it? (I hope this wasnt just covered!)

My LHS now carries Cool Power, they recommened the green stuff that claims to be all synthetic. I usualy run 15%, I use it in 2 O.S. 4 strokes, 1 Magnum 4 stroke, a Magnum 2 stroke and a couple O.S. 2 strokes.

Do I need castor, would be the next question!

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

Adding a little castor to your all synthetic fuel will do no harm. A source of good castor is a motorcycle shop that has a lot of dirt bike stuff. I prefer Blendzall 460 over Klotz Be'Nol, but both are good. I would add only a few ounces per gallon, say about 4. if you were going to add any.

balsaeater

No problems

I would be interested to know would a zero nitro glow fuel mix 60% and a unleaded gasoline mix (which contains 5% Methanol ) 40% work well on a MVVS glow engine using a synthetic oil of 10% or preferably lower like 6% as the gasoline has some lubrication abilities

Makes this

50% methanol
40% Gasoline = add~2.5% methanolfrom the 5% methanol in gasoline
10% synthetic

changes to
52.5% methanol
37.5% gasoline
10% synthetic

That would be my first experiment in a few weeks when my MVVS 26cc engine is run in as only got a gallon through it so far

which is using presently
5% nitro
10% EDL
85% methanol

with a 18*10 Master Airscrew on tuned pipe
OS F glow plug

Estimated approx 1.5 onz per minute at WOT as 1/3 to 1/2 gas with the odd few WOT of 15 seconds makes ~ 12 minutes on 16 onz tank
two more tanks in the first gallon to go
no RPM taco

Engine seems to run a tad to cold even though it inside a cowling
but I have no temperature gauge except finger on the head and seems to be to cold to be at its best
as when I come down from long WOT run the engine tick over is higher for a good few seconds and then decays but its winter here mostly 5C so might be better in summer

long tick over seem stable and pick up is ok but a bit boggy at the 4/5 gas until it gets a tad hotter and then kicks in and kicks butt power

next 1/2 gallon no nitro so
90 %methanol
10 % EDL

after that will stay with zero% nitro fuel if it works for a four more USA gallons

then try gasoline mix

then try E85 mix


Information like MVVS standard muffler withother sizes 16*xx or 17*xx or 18*xx props

and motor runs well with other mixes in case 10% synthetic is to low for others to try out

20% Castor
50 %methanol and
30 %gasoline would also be useful




Balsaeater

Fuelman

My Feedback: (6)

When it warms up enough here to do some extended runs, I will let you know how it works out.
I do not know if the glow carb will be suitable for that much gasoline in the fuel due to the leaning effect gasoline will have.
I am not sure also if that much methanol can remain soluble in gasoline or the other way around. gas and methanol do not like each other in large quantities. Over here they use ethanol in gas not methanol.

htrab

Hi, I am currently in the process of mixing my own fuel for OFF-ROAD 0.21 1/8 buggies. I had just bought a gallon of methanol, a 16 OZ can of Klotz Nitro KL-600 and a 32 OZ bottle of Klotz Super Techniplate 2 stroke castor/synthetic blend oil. I also have a graduated cylinder at home to measure the required volumes. Am I missing something as additives, acetone or something else before starting to mix it up?

Thanks for the help!!!

XJet

Nope, the three basics of fuel are oil, methanol and (optionally) nitromethane.

Klotz isn't the best oil on the market but so long as you don't go too low percentage-wise, you should be fine.

htrab

I am planning on mixing 25% nitro fuel for my buggie. What percentage of oil is recommended? Is there an specific ratio between nitromethane and oil in the mixture? For X volume of nitromethane to add Y volume of oil and then complete the remaining volume (to complete 1 gallon) with methanol? Of course this applies if the mixture is being made taking 1 gallon as the final volume.

Thanks for the information.

PS: This fuel stuff is very similar to dilutions in the chemistry class I took X years ago!

downunder

No, but there's a ratio between oil and the final total of fuel. It's the sum of each ingredient that matters. A suitable fuel for your buggie (without skimping too much on oil) would be something like 25% nitro, 17% oil and the remainder (58%) methanol.

Work in metrics because it's soooooo much easier and use 1 litre as your standard total volume. For 25% nitro use 250ml, 17% oil use 170ml then top up with 580ml methanol. Give it a good shake and you're done . To mix 2 litres just double the volumes and so on.

XJet

That's a *lot* of oil for a buggy. He'd probably be better off if he went for a better oil and ran around 8%-10% by volume. The result would be no increase in engine wear but he would see improved performance, cooler running and better fuel-efficiency.

downunder

Maybe it's a lot of oil but I've just stripped my son's engine after 40 hours of racing using 20% castor and there was only .001" ovality on the big end of the rod, no detectable play at the small end and the bearings were perfect. The piston/liner needs replacing though. I'd much prefer to err on the safe side when it comes to oil.

W Swan

I have been flying for a couple of years, but have always used pre-made fuels. Recently a friend of mine has offered me a gallon of pure nitromethane. He has had it for about ten years, and it has been in a glass jar, inside a metal cannister in his refrigerator all this time. Is it likely that this can be used? If so, what do I add to it (and in what proportions) to make fuel for my 36 to 46 size engines? Further, are there precautions I need to take when mixing it?

Sport_Pilot

It should last forever in a dark refrigerator. If its is yellowish or amber in color it has an indicator that turns purple when it goes bad. If its clear it doesn't have the indicator but is most likely good.

htrab

Is this fuel mix appropiate for a OS 0.21 VG engine?[]

Complete volume= 1 gallon=3785 ml

Oil Klotz KL-100= 473 ml=473/3785=12.5% oil

Klotz Nitro KL-600= 236 ml = 236/3785=6.2% nitro

Methanol = 3785-(473+236)= 3076 ml/3785= 81.3% Methanol

I am trying to optimize the amounts of the components since the Klotz products are expensive. Methanol was the least expensive at $9.00/gallon.

The price for the KL-100 was around $13.00/32 FLOZ and the KL-600 about $16.00/16 FLOZ

If I can use half of the Klotz products and the Meth gallon less the volumes of the oil and Nitro the price per gallon will be as follows:

$9.00 Meth+$6.50 KL-100+$8.00 KL-600 = $23.50. An aftermarket RC gas gallon costs around $35.00 so I will be saving $11.50/gallon.

Thanks for the help!!!!!!!

RONW

I am trying to find suppliers of Cooper synthetic oil,
can any one help please.