rschoi_75

Yes. It will have more torque (4 poles vs 2 poles) & more top end than an ammo 3900. The Permax 400/4d is 5200kv.

Metallover

Anyone tested the mongoose yet? I'm not sure but it looks like it is out now.

jaejw1

well im going to throw in my .02 cents...

the novak mongoose..

before it came out it was the talk of the town,,, everyone wanted to purchase the thing.. but as soon as the numbers were out as far as motor specs.. i was starting to become doubtful.. the motors power rating are like 125 (13.5),,165(10.5),, and 210watts(8.5)... well im use to motors that are 240+watts which is a big difference..

and then there was the advertisement in the magazine... of a lady holding the vendetta as if the mongoose could handle the vendetta no sweat..

now having tested motors with similar wattage ratings i was getting even more doubtful..

so i crunched some number and figured out what the mongoose motors would have to be geared at inorder to be even in speed with the permax (an already proven monster motor).. the numbers i came up with are only theoretical and it only shows axle speed.. nothing else..

the permax geared at a conservative 19/45
in order to maintain the same speeds the novaks would need a gearing of
13.5=16/45
10.5=13/45
8.5=11/45

well the time came for a 3rd party test.... i went to an outdoor dirt track,pegasus hobby,, there they had a large double that was actually a large single to a table top and the run up was about 6-7 feet... so with the permax i had no problems completely clearing it and landing on the back side of the table.. and this section along with the straight was going to be my test.... if the motors arent fast enough for the straight and can not clear the double then it isnt on par with the permax (my race motor)

so i tested the 8.5 and the 13.5
put the 8.5 in the vendetta ST using my homemade crime fighters which are on the stock wheels.. they are smaller in diameter than the d-bars...

i geared the 8.5 at the gearing i calculated.. put the thing on the straight.. and let her have it.. the motor was extremely smooth and i loved it.. it was almost as fast as the permax on the straight.. but the thing was much smoother... and now time for the double... it seems as though the motor just didnt have the bottom end to get the car up to speed fast enough to clear the double... it would land ontop of the table.... but it was smooth... i kept running and then the thing until it shut down... i thought i had done something wrong... after only 3 minutes of runtime the esc was hot and the motor was hot.. thermal protection...

now i tried the 13.5 with the gearing i calculated... same thing happened.. after 3 minutes of runtime the thing just shut down...

so now i was determined to get this thing to work... so i put in a 49t spur and ran the 8.5 at 13/49
... the speeds were so disappointing,, it wasnt fast at all.. just slightly faster than stock...and it still thermalled.. so i decided to not even try the slower 13.5 at that gearing... i figured whats the point.. if the 8.5 was running slow then the 13.5 was going to be even slower..

i was extremely disappointed in the system... it was very smooth but at what cost... a slower running car that couldnt clear the biggest jumps... would it be worth running slower and rolling over jumps or being able to clear the jumps and have the speed to catch and pass on the straights or when opportunity presented itself...

now i cant say enough about it being a very smooth system,,, but it wasnt for me or my application..
maybe i tested a system that has since been revamped and now they offer something that is better.. i dont know... but it seems as though others are having good luck with it.. so maybe it was something i did wrong...

i used 2s lipos for the test.. and those lipos were somiking hot after each 3 minute run..

if i do decide to buy one.. i will do another test... and if i dont like it i will probably put it in my xtm rage.. hopefully the gearing set up isnt as demanding as the vendettas..

here is the layout of the track.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWT-IBzBYUE

Metallover

Maybe it will run much better on 3s. It will pull less amps and not thermal as easily. What pack did you use?

I think the mongoose will be much better suited for 1/18th onroad vehicles and buggys; carpet racing.

Nice review Jae.

Beomagi

Thank you Jae.
Given the wattage, it's pretty much what I was expecting. High rpm's with too little torque. Sounds like even the esc either couldn't handle that power - or it can, but efficiency plummets when it's not geared right, wasting the energy as heat.

jaejw1

i was using the apogee 1300 pack...

this is my main comment about the mongoose.. it is not for every application.. maybe for a smooth carpeted onroad surface yes.. and only if you gear it really high...

i still like the options of having various gearing choices that i could use for a given track size... for instance... when i raced my buggy with the permax.. all i needed was a 16/45 gearing on a 10th scale track,, with the truggy i needed a 19/45... but on a large 8th scale.. 21/45 was much better... i know im sacrificing smoothness for speed.. but i figure whats more important.. getting passed on the straights and not being able to clear jumps... or having a lil bit of cogging and be able to outjump the competition and pass them on the straights..

jaejw1

i have seen the mongoose in action in a rc18t.. and i was very impressed.. but it wasnt as fast as the permax.. and couldnt clear that double either... so the higher you go in the gearing.. the slower it becomes... now maybe.. just maybe the mongoose will be best in the buggy when using the stock wheels.. but who runs the buggy using stock wheels??????

Beomagi

No replacement for horses. I'll give it it's due in lighter vehicles - though 125 is strictly lower end in my book.
But even if you're rc18t is thicker nylon/alloy/funky nimh battery setup, it's weight may put those novak's out of the running. Vendettas are heavier, but not by THAT much.

Prolly will look at sensored when doing my crawler though

jaejw1

well the gearing on the rc18 are a lot higher than the vendettas also.. just compare stock gearings.... the vendetta being a 7.49:1 while the rc18 is like a 11:1 or something high like that..

if only the motors were larger.. than they would have the perfect system for vendetta owners..

but eamedia did have good luck with his in his buggy with half8th tires .. geared at 16/45 using the 13.5 i believe ... not 100% sure .. but he is using it on a 10th scale dirt offroad track,,,,

K.Gro

My Feedback: (1)

Man that stinks, I thougt that the mongoose was going to be the way to go. My friend has the 8.5 in an 18t and it is really smooth and pritty quick. I was not quite sure that it would do the job in the ST, but I guess you confirmed that jae. I am sure glad I did not get this set up. I am curious to know how much cogging there is with the ammo 3900 and a mamba mini pro? Can anyone shed some light on the subject? Thanks...

jaejw1

well dont .. not get it because of what i said.... others have had good luck with it.. but i just didnt.. so just take it with a grain of salt.. the amo 3900 should be around the same speeed as the mongoose 10.5,,,, but it all depends on what the mongoose ccan handle as far as surface driven on... and the competition

K.Gro

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, it depends on what surface it can handle I agree. But sometimes I drive on tracks with some jumps and layouts like the ones in most of you vids. If you say that it does not have the torque to clear that table top it still makes me question if it's right for me. I want a motor that can handle anything off road. I am not looking to do speed runs, I have a 10th scale for that. I want a motor with enough torque to get up and over big table tops and long triples. And if it gets to hot that quickly for you, I dont know if it will run any cooler under my typical driving. That is why I am still leaning twards the ammo.

Metallover

You could always get a Medusa and CC 1/10th sidewinder. The 1/10 sidewinder is about the same price as the micro pro. You may need a better battery though.
About this setup:
Pros- Faster, better, less heat, more speed and torque
cons- need better battery and esc

Beomagi

Only need a better battery if your motor demands more power
I'm using the mamba 1/10 sidewinder on a "homemade" ~1/12 buggy. It's a great esc. Powers my 3900(540) ammo well enough handling 3s2p A123 2300 batts (was on nimh) - VERY capable esc.

http://beomagi.ath.cx/pics/K2-3S%20axial/

rcman7

how can you put a 3 cell lipo in vendetta st

Metallover

Get creative. If the battery is taller and not too long or wide, you can take out the battery hold down and put the electronics elsewhere while securing the battery with straps or something. You will have to come up with something. Welcome to RCU.

studcow00

for future hobbiests, you should note that the ammo needs the moto shaft shaved, and motor mount drilled out

Beomagi

What is wrong with the ammo? I've used it on several models before, the pinions never had issues fitting. Do you mean shortened? Thinning a shaft is NEVER a good idea.

Snipin_Willy

The 28-35-3900 ammo motor shaft is a few mm too long and needs to be trimmed a bit, and all I had to do was take a dremel and clean out some of the aluminum on the motor mount, didn't drill it out any.

tuvix72

Same here, I filed the slots on the motor mount to accomadate the slightly larger screws and shortened the shaft with a dremel. I think I also made the head of one of the screws smaller using a grinder for the lower hole in the engine mount. The only precaution to note would be to seal the motor with electrical tape before cutting the shaft...

As for the 3S packs... we have several larger packs we use on the TRex and we've gone as far as strapping them on the "roof racks" of the detta just to try them out...

jaejw1

3s lipos... if you want to go that fast.. just buy a neu motor.. 1105/1.5y... 6800kv motor with monster torque

tuvix72

It was good to try it out... not sure I'd need that kind of performance all the time though, I'd probably just break more stuff :-)

JatoGuy

Ok guys I have been trying to help out a friend get an order for his Vendetta. Originally he ordered a sidewinder 6800 but is now returning that. With the help on this forum he decided on the Ammo motor and sidewinder 1/18 esc. I just read about the mods needed to make the Ammo fit but is there anything else he should know? Motor shaft diameter is larger then stock so I assume new pinions are in order. What pinions work? Hes looking for all around speed. It will be raced at [link=http://www.familyhobbiesraceway.com/indexb.html]Track[/link] - as well as bashed . Also will the connectors that come on the Ammo plug right into the sidewinder? Basically I was just hoping to get all the little annoying set backs out of the way and get it done in one order. Thanks for any help !

Metallover

I don't think the ammo will come with connectors. You will need standard size hole 3.2mm pinions. Check out Robinson Racing. I use regular ones but some people use different pinions because the pitch is just a little different and they have trouble stripping spurs. I think it is mostly bad luck..

rcman7

i cant fined the right pinion gear for vendetta st to fit the shaft for the mamba, were can i fined one