Hossfly

Something to chew on as the clock moves forward.

Actual Year End Totals of AMA membership.
1987 122,880
1988 136,044
1989 153,103
1990 165,359
1991 168,190
1992 165,350
1993 168,074
1994 158,927
1995 154,322
1996 153,675
1997 149,700 Low point last 15 years.
1998 152,565
1999 157,331
2000 165,365
2001 170,754
2002 173,420 High point last 15 years.

2003 168,075
2004 163,709
2005.......161006
2006..........156765
2007........... 151394 last full year: Below 1989

For those of you that prefer the smooth talk, may I ask you to check out these items;
In his campaign statement, which came 1.) with your ballot and AMA dues renewal, 2.) in the Oct. MA, and at http://www.modelaircraft.org/member...mpaignstmt.aspx

Mr. Smith claims:
MARKETING - 2005-Present:
Created, developed and implemented the following Marketing programs to stimulate membership growth.
(Insert: membership has fallen over 12,000 end of 2004 until end of 2007. I ask you what kind of stimulation is this? )

• Park Pilot Program (Insert: 2.5 years as a DVP working on a NATIONAL program. Where will he go next?)
• Buddy Box Program ( Insert: BB has Been around since early '80s)

• AMA All-Star Team Worked to educate staff and Executive Council on Marketing strategies. (Insert: He has had to educate the EC and staff!!!) [sm=confused.gif]

If elected as your Executive Vice President, I would like to focus on the following over the next three years:
Stimulate the growth of AMA by implementing various creative marketing programs
(Insert: With his record of stimulation AMA will be back to early 1980s levels in next 3 years.) [sm=confused.gif]

Grow and aid in securing flying sites for our clubs through creative financing of club-owned sites
(insert: I have personally done that starting in 1996.)

So you go and elect Mr. Smith. He can talk well. I admire his spit and polish and smooth manners. My only claim to fame is that I simply get things done, and I don't waste time talking much about it until it is done, unless I get LEVERAGED into having to talk "much" which I know how to do. Leverage works both ways.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

So now you are saying:
And in another theard you claimed:
So that's it .... that's the creative financial plan? Cash is king? That's what you plan to introduce as a creative financing plan? Ha ..... come on Hoss, please don't tell me that putting cash into real estate, which makes that cash completely useless and illiquid is your new financial plan.

Kid around and explain what it really is. Because I know you don't expect everyone to depend on a huge cash outlay and not some type of creative financing plan. So instead of "talking the talk" like you claim MS is doing .... why don't you explain this financial windfall you could have easily introduced as a member, much like those Corona paintball guys.

Also you keep saying you're going to get this done and you're going to get that done ... but your not saying anything new or different. You haven't mentioned 1 new program you wish to introduce, just keep saying you'll get "it" done and fight against the AMA to restructure the org, whatever that means. MS got the BB program done and he got the PPP done. Are you trying to say that both of these programs contributed to the downfall of the AMA? Explain that one.

The only thing I see you claiming here is that Mark Smith, with no other names mentioned like perhaps Dave Brown, contributed to the AMA's downfall in recent years. Please explain, because I know you might not answer my questions ..... but every living sould here is wondering what I'm thinking, there is no way they can't be.

As far as I can see Mark got it done for the entire membership and you got it done for you own club and personal net worth. BTW have you donate that property to your club or are you still the deed holder.

Bob Mitchell

Yes, you do appear to be confused. You have indicated that you think the Park Pilot Program should have a couple of years to prove whether it's going to work or not. You've indicated that you have "reserved judgement" on the program. Now here you are trashing it and using it as a reason why you should be elected rather than your opponent.

Which side of the mouth should we believe? Yep. I see the confusion.

More confusion.
Most of the staff and EC don't have marketing backgrounds, do they Horrace? What exactly is your issue with this? Care to explain? Note that the comment is about marketing strategy, not specific marketing programs.

Yes, you've said this a number or times. The only thing lacking is what those programs might be.....something you've refused to answer when asked. Anyone with half a brain can realize that AMA growth can and should be a priority, and that "creative marketing programs" are a good idea. Duh! But where are YOUR ideas? You've asked us where HE is going....so tell us where YOU are going. You've trashed one program that has been developed. Do you have any ideas of your own? If so, why will you not share them? If not, then is your plan nothing more than to just help implement something that someone else comes up with? Where are YOUR ideas?

Horrace, you complain that Mark is all smooth talk and manners. I submit that "smooth talk" is all you've given us here. Nothing but smoke, mirrors and a cry to elect you since you'll do better. Substance? Seems to be totally missing.

The Toolman

I really doubt that....LOL

KidEpoxy

STL-
What on earth are you talking about?
The Corona PB guys didnt suggest Muncie get into PB to raise MuncieMoney,
they even said they were not doing it to raise funds independantly (PB itself ran a little red).
Corona PB isnt a cash windfall,
nor was Corona PB suggested by the club to be a Muncie financial fix.
... but otherwise your comparison of Corona PB to suggesting windfalls to Muncie is spot on.

Hoss is talking about Muncie doing things to raise national level finances,
and you associate that with some minor club having an event at theid field.



While I dont singularly blame the Marketing guy
when Membership(sales) plummets for years
we shouldnt boast that as a feather in the cap of marketing plans those years.


But the job was not to CReate BB & PPP
the job of marketing was to market AMA.
If sales dive marketing is NOT getting the important job done.

STL, you really should wait for PPP to stop being a red ink anchor,
and actually get some membership movement numbers, before saying it was a great way to market AMA.
As it stands in this snapshot it has taken members from AMA,
it is Negative Marketing specificly and visibly reducing the AMA roster of subsidizers to add to the rolls of PPP subsidized. Negetive on membership, negative on finances..... so maybe you should wait to see if it turns around beofe you tell folks what a great job its doing and great plan it is.

If we stay the course with the Marketing we have,
why think the plummeting sales will turn around with the same guys at the helm.
More of the same wil lead to... well, more of the same.



some of us understand there is more than one way to interpret the data that makes some guys scream Global Warming, along with more than just the one contributing factor.... same here. Perhaps you dont see anyway anyone could not need to have it explained at the 3rd grade level is because you dont have the comprehension required to see that. Way to gripe on semantics. This is at the same level as whining if Hoss said air was Nitrogen based because he didnt list the fraction of CO2 and Argon in there as well.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Exactly, he's doing "things", what are these "things". Corona took the time to draft a nice document and the AMA put it that online. What is this "thing" Hoss is talking about?

Terrific and fair enough I'll wait, but for now I'll support their decisions. However Hoss is running for a position now, an EC position. Should he wait as well or embrace and help support? Seems to me that Tower Hobbies and Horizon haven't waited to see results, they are now on board .... and the funny thing is ... so are you!

Bob Mitchell

So, you want something different, eh?

Why don't you ask what Horrace will do to improve AMA membership?

He says he wants to "implement various creative marketing programs". OK, that sounds like a good idea. I think most everyone who cares about AMA would like to see the implementation of "various creative marketing programs" to help promote membership. Really helps to set him apart from the rest of the herd, does'nt it?

Now ask him what those "various creative marketing programs" might actually be. Can you hear the deafening silence? HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEAS OF HIS OWN, KE. Or if he actually does, he's afraid that his competition will use his ideas against him, as he's told me, and that's why he can't tell us about 'em.

If something works, he'll jump on the bandwagon and tell us how much he had to do with getting it to work, sorta like he did with the RC frequencies back 30 years ago, (all that discussion and making a motion to give 'em some more money, exhausting stuff that, don't you know), and if it doesn't work, he'll point fingers at the fellow that actually had the idea while at the same time telling us he's "reserving judgement". And then he'll ask to be re-elected so he can "implement various creative marketing programs", again, and hope the next guy's idea might actually work so he can help take credit for it.

Food for thought, eh?

KidEpoxy

STL
No
what happened was Corona had telephone conversations with Muncie Carl
and the AMA didnt put the fruits of that online.

Then, year or years later,
we had a huge broohaha here where folks like you tried to say it was forbidden,
and AFTER the Muncieans saw that here they acted on our thread & published.

Corona didnt get muncie to publish PB rules,
they guys you opposed did, guys like ME ... guys that used RCU to bring change to Muncie as an outside constituent pulse that Muncie does read and consider (to some untold degree)
Corona guys were the forebearer of PB pioneering, and for that we should all be greatfull,
but their action didnt result in an AMA published PB guide, nor was that their intent, to bring change to Muncie.




Bob-
Yes,
the rest of the herd is the More Of The Same guy.

Hoss= Not more of the same
Mark= More of the same

So given the above reasons I dont want more of the same downward sales,
I want one of the Not More Of The Same guys... and since there is only one running, I dont really need the details to differentiate which Not More Of The Same guy.

Consider it
Anything but more of the same.

You say you dont know what Hoss want to do.
Were you just not paying attention to the list of stuff from making MA desirable enough to bring in more revenue (have to think a more desirable member benefit would make membership more desirable), or the stuff about getting involved with governments at all levels to bring aeromodeling out of the dark closet, restructuring to facilitate said interactions with government, and the other stuff Hoss was hounded with redundant questions on?

This may be speculation on my part,
but I would imagine Hoss would use his powers as Mr Unanimous to bring up the way Muncie developes plans to raise membership(sales)... I am still waiting to hear you demonstrate some of Marks WorksWithliness you say Mr Unanimous doesnt have. Mark couldnt even get a unanimous vote on a project with claims that the EC was in on its developement.

When you cant get guys to come together as a united team
on something THEY helped make,
wow thats bad.

calachie

Looks to me like it's been up & down the last 20 yrs. Was 89 when you were there?




AMA 191557

Bob Mitchell

I want Hoss to tell us what the "various creative marketing programs" are that he wants to implement to improve AMA membership numbers.

I would hazard a guess that everyone on the current EC thinks that implementing "various creative marketing programs" to improve AMA membership is a good idea. From that standpoint Horrace is part of the herd that all want to accomplish the same thing.

He can't differentiate himself from the herd without some specific plans, and he refuses to do so. From that I'm of the opinion that he doesn't have any thing specific other than the motherhood and apply pie "implement various creative marketing programs".

It's a simple thing to understand, KE.

Lacking such, it's little more than a cry of ...."so vote for me, I'm going to make it better." IOW, no real substance over what the rest of the herd wants to do.

Kemosobie

The last paragraph of post 1 sounds like the beginning of a concession speach.

Hossfly

HA, HA, HA! He, He He. Oh Mitchell, there you go out in left field again, when the ball was hit to right field. You really are the sheep herder today. You know what sheep herders do don't you? They flock the sheep. You are a good one.

In my post I wrote:
SMITH is the growth stimulator although the public record evidences such stimulation is in the WRONG direction. [>:] I am no "marketing" person. I think of marketing people the same as Economists. "Economics is an item designed to provide employment for Economists." Like government work, where nothing is produced other than more soiled useless paper.

I thought you would pick up on the "Inserts" which are my comments on the Camp. Statements made by your hero. Once again I screwed up: giving credit where no credit is due.

May I suggest Mitchell, that you study your hero's campaign statements and learn what he is all about. Then you may be able to understand that which is being presented to you in my most simple terms.

Thank you for another good laugh.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

Horrace, when I read what you have to say I really do wonder. Is this man amongst the best of 150,000 to lead? How is that possible?

You are perhaps the best example I've seen of what a membership's apathy towards an organization can produce. Instead of behaving like a fifth grader running for student council, why don't you tell me what you'll do to try to get the membership to care about the organization? If you happen to win, we'll have reached a low point. What will you do to encourage those who have tact, intelligence, skill, and leadership qualities to take a more active role in the AMA?

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

Wow.... is this how we should expect anyone to be treated that asks a viable question?????
wow....

Warbird Joe

MikeL you hit the nail right on the head.

HOSSFLY, I have read the postings in here since I joined to learn about the AMA and what I have learned is you will not do. In a nut shell, act like an adult and stop participating in the childish games and make a real difference. You haven't made a differecne at all being the way you are acting. I want someone who can change things. I honestly believe you have changeg things though. You have caused people like me who want to help the AMA be successful. I don't care what your points are because you don't know how to talk to anyone. Sometimes you have to be a better bullcrapper to sell you ideas than the other guy. Pefect example you said Mark knows how to spit polish well (something to that affect. i can't find where you said that again) Anyway my point being that you have to schmooz people to make things happen.

Hoss just think about it, and honestly think about it. If you asked Obama or McCain a question - you decide who you met first- If their reply was smart @%# and made you feel like you were dumb as hell for asking that, would you vote for them? Heck no.

If you had a chance to ask them a question and they went off on some tangent like you did

Would you vote for them. Heck no. If you said yes to either one of these, I think you need to check your integrity. I would tell them to go to heck and vote differently or not even vote at all.


You have time, maybe you can still sacrifice your verbally aggressive campaign to belittle people and campaign to be a EVP that people want.
One that hears what we want
One that can pick through the smart @%# comments and make a positive comment to influence the person. (again honey is better than vinegar)
One that can be approached with ideas that are not his own. be open minded

I am not saying be a punching bag, or the puncher, but be a leader. Any one can can say they are a leader.

I would also like to say to you, I am not personally attacking, a.k.a. referencing you to a lemming, I am pointing out a simple fact. You are not leading by being like the rest of the childish acts that happen in here. This could have been a great resource for you to help get you elected. Hopefully you listen to some of the people in here. This have been your biggest downfall. No matter how great you may be, your attitude, demeanor, pushes people (votes) away from you.

Bob Mitchell

Well, I'm glad that you got a good laugh out of it, Horrace. All of us need a good laugh now and then. I had to chuckle about it myself after you pointed out my mistake and I realized what I'd done. I apologize for attempting to take you to task over something that someone else, not you, had to say, and retract the comments in that and the follow up messages. Mea culpa.

For those of you who haven't picked up on it yet, or who may have just joined in reading or responding here, the quotes I responded to were from Mark, not Horrace. Given my strong oppostion to his candidacy, I'm sure it made his day.

Bob Mitchell

He was right to call me on it. I attempted to take him to task for something he didn't say. My mistake.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

nvm

KidEpoxy

If "Stimulate the growth of AMA by implementing various creative marketing programs "
is not a good thing to say when Hoss says it,
is it a brilliant strategy and a reason to vote for Mark when Mark says it?

If this was ever so important to get specifics on, that leaving it vague is bad for a candidate (for Hoss),
what are the specifics that Mark gave to not leave it as a bad thing to say?

Where is a link to when Mark was asked to clear up this campaign poison phrase,
lets see how detailed he got when(if) he took care of this horrible vagury to say (when it was thought Hoss said it)

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Food for Thought

If the lynch mob who accused Hoss of having nothing at all to do with frequency acquisition [and who were made to look like fools when Hoss proved they were wrong] had any self respect, they would vacate this forum and go look for asylum at some other forum more on their level, like RCG.

Hossfly

wideglide' I don't need to question McCain. I know what he stands for, and what he will / will not do.

OTOH, if I were so stupid as to speak to B. Hussein Obama, then I well deserve whatever he throws at me.

Hossfly

Thank You Bob. I admire the strong character of a person that stands up and takes it when he goofed. Good Show.

I apologize for jumping on you so strong, however you have certainly been on my back enough. When you opened that door using your Lawyer tones, I was not going to miss the opportunity to jump right through the opening. Now looking for the next one!!! [:-]

edit: spelling

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Great ... so you agree Hoss has not told us anything we already knew. Hoss is at the same level as Mark Smith re what we know. Only one thing you can say about Mark, he's proven his record. Hoss, well he was fortunate enough in life to throw money at the problem for his club and his friends. Hoss also treats anyone that disagrees with him a notch above cockroach.

Oh and THANK YOU Hoss for not taking the time, once again to avoid the tough ... err simple questions I've been asking. I'm sorry that one little person in New York City bothers you that much .. problem is that you have 150,000 people in this org you have to tolerate as well. If you are elected EVP will you answer my emails, well when I email DM he answers within 12 hours to this day. You sir need no only to withdrawl your ticket as EVP but your ticket as an AMA member. I've never once heard you say you did anything for this org that wasn't attached to you and your club and the property there you own.

Warbird Joe

Well I do agree with you on this but you avoided the point being made.

Another point you have avoided to address. You may very well be the best candidate, who knows because you are too busy degrading people in here instead of promoting what your mission would be as the EVP.

We need a leader!!!!! Not a school yard bully.

Bob Mitchell

You're welcome. I goofed, simple as that. If the situation were to be reversed I would have jumped on you about it as well.