WildBlueYawnder

Oh. And with the stock motor my battery got so hot the velcro glue melted so when I took the battery out of the tray the velcro that had been attached to the battery stayed behind. Do your batteries get hot with the new motor?

Sam77

Yeah, I forgot that in quick-edit mode I can't post photos. It's there now.

Sam77

They did get pretty warm, but I think that can be better handled by building in some cooling ducts into the battery area. My buddy puffed a 4S pack due to overheating, so he's working on the best way to build some inlets/outlets to keep the battery cooler.

One thing I am modding is adding a couple of extra magnets to the canopy. I had it pop off in a high-rate aileron roll.

WildBlueYawnder

That looks like a scenic place you're flying. I feel a jet rally coming on.

Sam77

Here's what we have directly behind us....

WildBlueYawnder

Are you at an AMA club field or just a private area?

Sam77

It's a private area, but we're all AMA'ed up.

WildBlueYawnder

Here's what's in front of us.

WildBlueYawnder

Do you allow visitors?

topgun24

My Feedback: (25)

Sam, how did your setup compare to the Hoffman mighty mite which is what I was looking at? I would rather do what you did and only change the engine!

Sam77

I can't speak to what all was involved in getting the Mighty Mite in his F-16 (check RCAV8R13's post on this sister thread on RCGroups: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=247 )

I am, however, VERY impressed with the Hoffman motor. It's a beautiful piece of electronics and hardware. He was running his on 4S, though....

The Hyperion motor was a straight plug-in replacement. I didn't have to modify a thing.

-Sam

David Eichstedt

My Feedback: (17)

http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInf...ingBulletin.pdf

We have accomplished enough testing to post the above bulletin on the F-16 web page on horizonhobby.com.

The motor supplied with the F-16 is a two-pole motor, yet the default settings for both the EFLA1025 25A Pro ESC and EFLA1030 30A Pro ESC are for 4-pole motors. These settings are appropriate for many popular brushless outrunner motors, which is arguably the most common use for these ESCs.

Our testing indicates that using the default timing settings in these ESCs with the F-16 results in increased current and motor failure due to overheating. When using the proper timing, however, we have been unable to replicate a failure. Please note the instruction manual, on page 14, does call out the need to use 2-pole motor settings for proper operation. This step cannot be ignored or skipped!

Anecdotally, we have a couple production sample models that have surpassed 40 flights using the proper settings without problems, and another couple that are approaching the upper 20s. We have used both the 25A and the 30A ESCs in these models. If you've gone with the 30, or if you are using a different brand of ESC, we have found that 5 degree timing works the best for reducing current draw and heat buildup.

If you have experienced motor failure in your F-16, please call Product Support at 877-504-0233. If you have already called them and are awaiting resolution of your issue, please call them again; we'll be briefing them on the issue tomorrow morning so all the technicians will be up to speed.

WildBlueYawnder

The link on Daves message for the F-16 product bulletin does not work but if you go to the F-16 page on the Horizon web site there is a link to the bulletin (! Important Product Bulletin on the top right of the page).

I missed the note in the manual when I assembled my F-16, even though it is clearly there. Fortunately, I read about the requirement for 2-pole setting in this forum before I flew my F-16 for the first time (I then went back to the manual and saw I had missed the step). I am using the 5 degree timing on the E-Flite 30 amp ESC. I only have one flight in because I was waiting to see what the problem resolution was going to be. I guess I'll go crazy with it now and see what happens.

DNCrosby

The motor is still not an E-Flite motor, and grossly underpowered. The Plane is nose heavy, and suffers from severe performance issues mimicking anything resembling an F16 with the stock motor. Which makes it hard to fly. But then again, I'm somewhat new to the ducted fan scene, and what do I know?....
But having the plane stall at anything above 45-50 degrees of vertical flight for more than 2-3 Seconds isn't very scale for me. Heck my Yack 55 @ $35 from great planes can do better.

I would like to see Horizon suggest some alternatives in motors, as well as offer a "Universal" Fan unit that will fit and work with the F-16 that can accommodate a large variety of popular motors that's also constructed a bit better than the stock unit. (Carbon Blades Maybe?)

Rick_H

This does not explain why mine burnt up as I was using a Castle Creations Speed Controller which does automatic pole selection. I will give them a call in the morning and see what they have to say, Hopefully I will be flying it again before the new year.

Rick

bearcatf8

My Feedback: (4)

And I used the 30 amp ESC and set it to a 2 pole and still had motor issues !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wtmcgehee

David,
I set the speed controller up and had Hobby Town USA check it over. It was setup exactly to the specs of the book. Did you only test one motor or were your testing several. I am sure there are other people who have purchased this item and works just fine for them. Also I was under the assumption that this was a E-flite motor. Why would a company who sells the best motors on the market put a cheap slow motor build buy a jumk company in a plane they climb to be a great flyer. Also in the book it says not to have it on full throttle or it will wear out parts. This plane doesn't climb without full throttle. It is a great looking plane, but most of don't care about that. They all look the same in the air. We want our proformance. I am just a little upset that I bought this plane over 2 months ago anf havn't flown it in a month and 28 days. I am working threw hobby town to resolve this issue. They called Horizon and were told they would get a motor ASAP. I will have them call again.
-Travis

Sam77

Also, at long last, I have videos posted. My advanced apologies for the video quality, we were using my digital camera set to video mode. It takes great photos, but meh video.

http://www.youtube.com/user/navysam77

Rick_H

Well I called HH Support today, First they told me that they sent my DF unit out on Nov 4th and if I did not receive it then somebody must have taken it from my front door step. Now how is that to start out the conversation with a Customer. Then I mentioned David Eichstedt name and he quickly changed and said that he found it and it was on hold, that they were waiting for a shipment due in some time in December. I asked him if they had changed the motor type so he read me the bulletin about how the motors burning out was the Customers Fault for not reading the manual. He did not know what to say when I told him I used a Castle Creations Speed Controller which does automatic pole detection other than they would ship it out as soon as then get it in.

You know they could have handled this a lot better. Blaming the customers is not a way to keep business, They have a problem and they should admit it and find a way to resolve it with the customers interest in mind.

You know I don't like to bash companies and they really have to do something dumb to get me to this level. Well in this case they succeeded, I will NEVER buy a newly released product from HH again. I will wait until it is tried and true first. I think the problem is they have so many good products they don't know what to do when the have a lemon.

If the problem they are having with these planes is as Limited as they say then they should send out new kits or vouchers to those of us who had to endure all of this. The fact that they are blaming us talks volumes about how many of us are actually having these issues.

Rick

wtmcgehee

Rick,
I agree, the comments made are basically saying that the consumer knows nothing about eletric models and that we don't know what we are doing. It is really sad that Sam has already fixed the problem and HH is still trying to find a way out of taking care of a lemon. Most people read the instructions or go on threads before they even fly there models. Several people have read this and I have infasize to everyone on this forum in the begining to make sure they are on 2 poles. Anything higher is to much power for this junk motor. I will be converting mine to the setup Sam has. It is to bad I have to pay more money than I should but obviously HH is snaking there way out it. I am wondering how many models they have tested. HH doesn't even have to spend money. They could contact what ever company they used for the motor and have them send out better motors. But I agree with you. I will not buy a new model from HH until it has proven itself. It is to bad that we have to be the Guinea Pig and suffer.
-Travis

Sam77

While the stock power plant may be a dud, I love this airframe. It flies very smoothly, keeps me on my toes, and slows down nice for a landing.

Dave E: what are the chances of you guys just selling the airframe and letting folks slap in their own fan/motor/guts?

-Sam

wtmcgehee

Sam,
Will that motor work with a e-flite 30 ?
-Travis

wtmcgehee

Sam,
Also, how did you get the motor out of the duct unit?
-Travis

Sam77

I'm using an older E-Flite 40A ESC ( http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLA312B ) which doesn't let me program for pole settings. I'm looking to jump to a Castle ESC with autopole sensing.

With that said, I was pulling 33 to 35A pretty consistently, so I'd aim a bit higher ESC-wise.

-EDIT-

There are lines on the belly of the jet that when cut, make a good hatch/opening into the belly of the plane. When I get home, I'll peel the tape off of mine and snap a couple of photos. The foam is thick, so be patient while making your cuts. Once that was done, just a little bit of gentle pulling and the fan unit came undone from the duct/plane. Peel off and toss the Nerf-like/clown-nose looking foam deal on the rotor, loosen up the nut, and slide the rotor off of the motor shaft. Unscrew the two screws from the motor, slide the motor out, and gently remove the aluminum shim ring from the housing and the collet. Once you get your Hyperion motor in, I used all four supplied mounting screws (with Loctite) to secure the motor into the housing. Slide the collet onto the new motor's shaft, slap on the rotor, and secure with the nut (and Loctite).

How you put the fan unit back into the plane is up to you, but I used a bit of hot glue to get it back in. Just make sure it's nice and straight. Once that's done, tape your hatch back on with some scotch tape and you'll be set.

Something along those lines, anyways....

-Sam

DNCrosby

Please anybody who makes changes to the motor / fan unit, report back with any modifications made to the power plant, heat sync's that had to be added, so that we have a better collective understanding of what's involved... and can learn from each other... I myself am in the middle of the Mighty Mite swap, and will let you know once Fan unit is in, and I get my first flight on the new motor under my belt... Also for the Might Mite, was in increase in speed controller (ESC) needed ? Has anybody tested the amps and with which fan unit ?