85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
#176
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Welcome to the club PeeJay333. I was searching a couple of options for a wagon to set the tug on for transport. I'll probably use the Lee Valley one as there is a lee Valley store around the corner from me. Their cart is good for 1,000lbs. Of course my tug will come in around the 150-200lb mark.
http://www.toywagons.com/wagonframe.html This one is by a company made here in town.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page...639,33270&ap=1
Grinder.
http://www.toywagons.com/wagonframe.html This one is by a company made here in town.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page...639,33270&ap=1
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Turn down the volume and crank up some Miss. delta blues. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pes7hDXgCLE
When nobody is home crank the volume. I'd like to try it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGA3Q...eature=related
Grinder.
When nobody is home crank the volume. I'd like to try it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGA3Q...eature=related
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Toes mentioned that the portholes and doors on the Francis Smith plan don't match their locations on the Angel's Gate. I have had a chance to compare the plan to the photos of the Forney. The Starboard side matches pretty well, but the deckhouse is a little longer than that on the Smith plan and has an extra door between the aft two portholes. Interestingly, the tug as built has that door if you look at its picture with Francis.
But looking at port and starboard side photos of the Forney, it appears that the porthole/door arrangement is not symmetrical as shown on the Smith plan. That would account for some of the differences pointed out by Toes. As for the deckhouse extension, I should be able to print out some side views and scale the lenth of the aft part of the cabin based on a proportional comparison to the forward part of the cabin.
Pete G.
But looking at port and starboard side photos of the Forney, it appears that the porthole/door arrangement is not symmetrical as shown on the Smith plan. That would account for some of the differences pointed out by Toes. As for the deckhouse extension, I should be able to print out some side views and scale the lenth of the aft part of the cabin based on a proportional comparison to the forward part of the cabin.
Pete G.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
What hull length are you a looking at building Peejay333?. I just ordered a couple of Pittman 3700's from harbour Models in Cal. It was a tiring search looking for motors.
grinder.
grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
I plan to build to the Francis Smith plan at 37" length, modified to the Forney configuration. I ordered this Mabuchi 12 volt "high torque" motor. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:WNAFP:US:1123
It seemed to have similar characteristics to the motor Pat Matthews put in his 1932 Ford Tug "Dearborn" which is a little larger. Pat's tug build is at this thread. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775147 He really sets a high standard for building. I really like the way he did the plating on the hull, but so far, I don't even have any plating references for the ST. I am going to be getting some original Army ST plans, but I don't know if they will cover the plating or not.
Pete
It seemed to have similar characteristics to the motor Pat Matthews put in his 1932 Ford Tug "Dearborn" which is a little larger. Pat's tug build is at this thread. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775147 He really sets a high standard for building. I really like the way he did the plating on the hull, but so far, I don't even have any plating references for the ST. I am going to be getting some original Army ST plans, but I don't know if they will cover the plating or not.
Pete
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Another 'Mystery' Solved and Another Color Scheme
I have been trying to figure out how the catwalk forward of the Forney's pilot house is supported because the photos posted on the Boatnerd forum showed brackets from the cabin going upward, but not extending all the way to the outer edge of the catwalk. I posted a query on the Yahoo tugboats group. One of the members told me that the Forney was sold to Ojard in Duluth and is now named the "Edward H."
A search on "Ojard" in Duluth lead to a news story about the Edward H being frozen in the ice in Duluth and the two attached photos. The bright sun really lights up the area around the catwalk. Now I can see what was confusing me. There are two sets of supports. The lower set extends from the cabin side to the outer edge of the original visor which is still there. They are needed to support the visor because it now carries the weight of the catwalk. There is a second set of supports with triangular ends to match the slope of the catwalk and extending outward from the cabin to the outer edge of the catwalk.
This internet is totally awesome and so are the people on these forums.
Pete G.
I have been trying to figure out how the catwalk forward of the Forney's pilot house is supported because the photos posted on the Boatnerd forum showed brackets from the cabin going upward, but not extending all the way to the outer edge of the catwalk. I posted a query on the Yahoo tugboats group. One of the members told me that the Forney was sold to Ojard in Duluth and is now named the "Edward H."
A search on "Ojard" in Duluth lead to a news story about the Edward H being frozen in the ice in Duluth and the two attached photos. The bright sun really lights up the area around the catwalk. Now I can see what was confusing me. There are two sets of supports. The lower set extends from the cabin side to the outer edge of the original visor which is still there. They are needed to support the visor because it now carries the weight of the catwalk. There is a second set of supports with triangular ends to match the slope of the catwalk and extending outward from the cabin to the outer edge of the catwalk.
This internet is totally awesome and so are the people on these forums.
Pete G.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
That is weird that they would put the walkway right above the visor and leave the visor in place. I'm a novice builder and the internet has been a great help. If you have a question about building a detail it is likely someone has already overcome that challenge and posted it somewhere on the net. The guys here in RCU have been very helpful.
Grinder.
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
I have the model plans in the original envelope that they were shipped to me in 1987. Model Builder included a copy of the article. I am looking forward to building this tug one day. Have to finish two other tugs first. I am getting back into the hobby after about 20 years. Kids, work, real boating, garden RR, kept me busy. I am really enjoying this website!!!
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Smmpa
Welcome aboard and please don't hesitate to post pictures of those two tugs in work before you get to the 85' ST.
Pete
Welcome aboard and please don't hesitate to post pictures of those two tugs in work before you get to the 85' ST.
Pete
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
I got the motor in the mail last night. Hooked it up to an HO trainpack this morning and it runs extremely quietly and smoothly, even at slow speed. At most power settings, I could not stop the shaft by squeezing it, even though it has a flat for a set screw. It seems to run equally fast in both directions, so it must have zero timing. I just bought a sealed 12 v battery on ebay this morning and I have a speed control, so next for the drive system will be the prop, shaft and stuffing box. Then I can see if I can "mix paint" with it like Pat Matthews did when testing his Ford Tug motor. (Pat actually stuck his 4" prop in a bucket of water and let 'er rip.)
Pete G.
Pete G.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
I received my 4.5"x5" 4 blade prop from Harbour Models today. This prop has a crazy amount of pitch on it. Will upload some pics tomorrow. I'm also waiting on two Pittman 3700's from Harbour Models they should be here in a week or two. I'm very impressed with this prop hopefully it will be a good performer.
Grinder.
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
This is going to get really interesting when you connect two of those beasts into that underdrive box and then into a five inch pitch prop. We should start a forum pool estimating the amount of bollard pull it will have! I'm thinking 30 lbs isn't unrealistic.
Keith.
Keith.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Basically I'm going for that ( " Here you stand on the shore and hold onto this line, and the other end will be attached to my tug boat " ) holy **** factor.
Grinder.
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
ORIGINAL: grinder-RCU
Basically I'm going for that ( " Here you stand on the shore and hold onto this line, and the other end will be attached to my tug boat " ) holy **** factor.
Grinder.
Basically I'm going for that ( " Here you stand on the shore and hold onto this line, and the other end will be attached to my tug boat " ) holy **** factor.
Grinder.
That prop will certainly provide some 'grunt' for your tug!....
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Grinder,
That is one serious prop it should definetly move some water, I'll be looking forward to some pics of it on her maiden voyage.
That is one serious prop it should definetly move some water, I'll be looking forward to some pics of it on her maiden voyage.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Some number crunching. Maybe someone smarter than me can help me figure this out. I'm just trying to get an idea for prop rpm and the gearing. 4.5"x5" 4 blade prop. 1 revolution of the prop would move the boat forward 5". If the prop is turning at 1,000rpm then the boat would move forward 5,000" 's ( 416' )in one minute. Sound right so far?. So if you cover 416' in one minute how many mph is that?. Once we get all that figured out then we can factor in 10% loss in efficiency. 5280' in a mile / by 416' = 12.7mph?.
Grinder.
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Grinder,
Just out of curiousity how much do you think it would cost me to have all the parts lazer cut for a 51" hull. I got a set of plans from a guy off Ebay that enlarged them for me to make a 51" hull. I like the way yours is turning out so far and now it has me interested in doing the same thing. I already have the running hardware from my MR. Darby kit since I went through Harbor Models and bought there running hardware with the kork nozzles for my Darby. Now that I have all the open wheel hardware I can set the drive system up for twin motors running the gear sets from the Darby hardware, it should make the Angels Gate cruise through the water pretty good. When you get a chance let me know about the price a ball park figure would be helpful. Thanks
Just out of curiousity how much do you think it would cost me to have all the parts lazer cut for a 51" hull. I got a set of plans from a guy off Ebay that enlarged them for me to make a 51" hull. I like the way yours is turning out so far and now it has me interested in doing the same thing. I already have the running hardware from my MR. Darby kit since I went through Harbor Models and bought there running hardware with the kork nozzles for my Darby. Now that I have all the open wheel hardware I can set the drive system up for twin motors running the gear sets from the Darby hardware, it should make the Angels Gate cruise through the water pretty good. When you get a chance let me know about the price a ball park figure would be helpful. Thanks
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Question for anyone who built the Francis Smith design to the original size he doesn't really give any size for the prop or identify the drive shaft hardware. What length/diameter of driveshaft did you use and what prop diameter. It looks like a 2 1/2" prop is the largest that would fit.
Pete G.
Pete G.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
ORIGINAL: RCBOATMANIAC
Grinder,
Just out of curiousity how much do you think it would cost me to have all the parts lazer cut for a 51" hull. I got a set of plans from a guy off Ebay that enlarged them for me to make a 51" hull. I like the way yours is turning out so far and now it has me interested in doing the same thing. I already have the running hardware from my MR. Darby kit since I went through Harbor Models and bought there running hardware with the kork nozzles for my Darby. Now that I have all the open wheel hardware I can set the drive system up for twin motors running the gear sets from the Darby hardware, it should make the Angels Gate cruise through the water pretty good. When you get a chance let me know about the price a ball park figure would be helpful. Thanks
Grinder,
Just out of curiousity how much do you think it would cost me to have all the parts lazer cut for a 51" hull. I got a set of plans from a guy off Ebay that enlarged them for me to make a 51" hull. I like the way yours is turning out so far and now it has me interested in doing the same thing. I already have the running hardware from my MR. Darby kit since I went through Harbor Models and bought there running hardware with the kork nozzles for my Darby. Now that I have all the open wheel hardware I can set the drive system up for twin motors running the gear sets from the Darby hardware, it should make the Angels Gate cruise through the water pretty good. When you get a chance let me know about the price a ball park figure would be helpful. Thanks
Grinder.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
PeeJay - I am running two 60mm Korts on nmy original Francis Smith plan and agree that this is probably the largest that will fit even as a single.
Having said that, I often use only one if I am just cruising as the idea of two is definitely overkill unless you intend to do some serious pulling.
I set my speed controllers to half power to prevent overspeeding the boat as it will start to nose down if it is run at 3/4 of full throttle. A prop speed of 1800 -2000 rpm presents what appears to be an appropriate scale speed.
Keith
www.kaymac.ca
Having said that, I often use only one if I am just cruising as the idea of two is definitely overkill unless you intend to do some serious pulling.
I set my speed controllers to half power to prevent overspeeding the boat as it will start to nose down if it is run at 3/4 of full throttle. A prop speed of 1800 -2000 rpm presents what appears to be an appropriate scale speed.
Keith
www.kaymac.ca
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Thanks, Keith. I have looked at your build on your web page, and it is a certainly a beautiful piece of work. What length did you need for the shafts from the motors to the Korts? and what diameter shafts?
Pete
Pete
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
Pete,
I bought the stuffing tubes and shafts fron Harbor Models but I don't see the exact part number on their website. They likely still have them though.
They were Robbe 1443, Stern Tube 195, D4 x 260 - attached to props that were for a 4mm shaft.
I cut the shaft to 7", coupling to Kort with the coupling attached directly to the Pittman.
Hope this answers your question.
Keith.
I bought the stuffing tubes and shafts fron Harbor Models but I don't see the exact part number on their website. They likely still have them though.
They were Robbe 1443, Stern Tube 195, D4 x 260 - attached to props that were for a 4mm shaft.
I cut the shaft to 7", coupling to Kort with the coupling attached directly to the Pittman.
Hope this answers your question.
Keith.
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RE: 85 ft Harbor Tug/Angels Gate
I ordered my shaft and prop from Harbor Models, but one or both are backordered. Not nearly such a monster as Grinder's prop, but big enough at 60 mm (2 3/8" ). I did receive a "U"-joint and 2.5 to 1 gearbox from Hobby Lobby.
I have also found out that Aircraft Spruce will cut a 4' x4' sheet of 1/16 ply for me to get two 2' x 4' panels with the grain running the "short way" as recommended by Francis Smith.
On the "research front," I actually tracked down Mike Ojard, the present owner of the Edward H, formerly, the Forney. Mike gave me his son Pat's e-mail address and we have been corresponding. Pat is going to get some detail pictures this weekend and send me a photo CD.
One interesting sidelight of the conversation with Mike is that until they bought the tug, it was direct drive, so putting it in reverse was a major task. They now have fitted her with an Airflex clutch and shaft brake. So when trying to emulate scale operation of a tug, you can't just slam it into reverse. That will work with our RC systems, but is very non-prototypical.
Other than the engineering upgrades, she is closer to the original ST configuration than most of the remaining ST's, with the original masts and rigging and the machine gun mounts still in place atop the pilot house although the wood gratings are gone. She does have wood grating on the pilot house floor. She also has the original steering quadrant and chains, connected to steering rods that run below guards on the fantail and connect to cables that are driven by a steering engine amidships. The main change from the original configuration is the removal of the lifeboat davits and removal of the machine guns, themselves, so the ST plan will be a great reference.
The Ojards have added the "Heritage Marine" logo to the stack and she looks pretty sharp. With all the personal contact, I may just have to build her as presently owned. Here is a recent shot that Pat Ojard posted on the Boatnerd site. She is also featured as their "boat of the month" in the BoatNerd Tugs and Towing gallery.
Pete
I have also found out that Aircraft Spruce will cut a 4' x4' sheet of 1/16 ply for me to get two 2' x 4' panels with the grain running the "short way" as recommended by Francis Smith.
On the "research front," I actually tracked down Mike Ojard, the present owner of the Edward H, formerly, the Forney. Mike gave me his son Pat's e-mail address and we have been corresponding. Pat is going to get some detail pictures this weekend and send me a photo CD.
One interesting sidelight of the conversation with Mike is that until they bought the tug, it was direct drive, so putting it in reverse was a major task. They now have fitted her with an Airflex clutch and shaft brake. So when trying to emulate scale operation of a tug, you can't just slam it into reverse. That will work with our RC systems, but is very non-prototypical.
Other than the engineering upgrades, she is closer to the original ST configuration than most of the remaining ST's, with the original masts and rigging and the machine gun mounts still in place atop the pilot house although the wood gratings are gone. She does have wood grating on the pilot house floor. She also has the original steering quadrant and chains, connected to steering rods that run below guards on the fantail and connect to cables that are driven by a steering engine amidships. The main change from the original configuration is the removal of the lifeboat davits and removal of the machine guns, themselves, so the ST plan will be a great reference.
The Ojards have added the "Heritage Marine" logo to the stack and she looks pretty sharp. With all the personal contact, I may just have to build her as presently owned. Here is a recent shot that Pat Ojard posted on the Boatnerd site. She is also featured as their "boat of the month" in the BoatNerd Tugs and Towing gallery.
Pete