Peppermint Pattie build
03-24-2009, 01:35 AM
#103
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
ORIGINAL: AndyKunz
You guys just make me like my electrics that much more!
Andy
You guys just make me like my electrics that much more!
Andy
I got into electrics (out of my pocket) during the last decade and I enjoy them - but not for everything.
I also enjoy all sizes of glow engines, model diesel engines and gas/spark engines. Each has its own charm.
I do wonder what a really hot electric setup would be for the Peppermint Pattie and how much it would cost. I'll bet that little rascal would really book with a hot electric motor on board.
Ed Cregger
03-24-2009, 08:02 AM
#104
RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Ed,
I don't know the PP well enough to give you an answer on that. My son's Gulfstream (he got the new one, with retracts) has 42" span, 270 sq in, weighs 28 oz. Power system is an E-Flite EFLM2000 ($75.00), EFLA1030 ESC ($45), and Thunder Power 2050 3S 25C pack THP21003SPL2 (60.00). Total $180 and that's at least a one-year supply of "fuel" (200-300 flights). I think you would be pleased with performance (I know John Redman was). When I see him at the field, I hope to get Mike McConville and maybe some of the other guys from work. Peter Goldsmith already asked to fly it, so we'll see.
I started plans for a 40-sized version (56" span) and plan to power it with E-Flite Power 46 EFLM4046A ($110.00), EFLA1060 ESC ($85.00), and EFLB32004S battery ($120). Total $315, and again that's at least a one-year supply of fuel. How much would you spend on a piped .45 and a 200 flights of fuel?
Andy
I don't know the PP well enough to give you an answer on that. My son's Gulfstream (he got the new one, with retracts) has 42" span, 270 sq in, weighs 28 oz. Power system is an E-Flite EFLM2000 ($75.00), EFLA1030 ESC ($45), and Thunder Power 2050 3S 25C pack THP21003SPL2 (60.00). Total $180 and that's at least a one-year supply of "fuel" (200-300 flights). I think you would be pleased with performance (I know John Redman was). When I see him at the field, I hope to get Mike McConville and maybe some of the other guys from work. Peter Goldsmith already asked to fly it, so we'll see.
I started plans for a 40-sized version (56" span) and plan to power it with E-Flite Power 46 EFLM4046A ($110.00), EFLA1060 ESC ($85.00), and EFLB32004S battery ($120). Total $315, and again that's at least a one-year supply of fuel. How much would you spend on a piped .45 and a 200 flights of fuel?
Andy
03-24-2009, 03:40 PM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Excellent question Andy!
Let's see... a YS 45 FS would be about $170 on auction or was $185 retail (OS AX would be less). Mac's pipe and header would be around $70 (Hatori would be a tad more). So that's at least $240. 15% Nitro @ 12 oz per tank would be about 10 flights per gallon times 20 gallons for 200 flights... would be about $500 in fuel! Make that roughly $750 for 200 flights.
Mmmm... How about that Heli Power 25 1000 kV I've had my eye on!? It would certainly rocketeer a PP! But not to worry, hopefully we'll have a nice solution soon to take care of those electric needs!
David.
Let's see... a YS 45 FS would be about $170 on auction or was $185 retail (OS AX would be less). Mac's pipe and header would be around $70 (Hatori would be a tad more). So that's at least $240. 15% Nitro @ 12 oz per tank would be about 10 flights per gallon times 20 gallons for 200 flights... would be about $500 in fuel! Make that roughly $750 for 200 flights.
Mmmm... How about that Heli Power 25 1000 kV I've had my eye on!? It would certainly rocketeer a PP! But not to worry, hopefully we'll have a nice solution soon to take care of those electric needs!
David.
03-24-2009, 05:07 PM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Hey Marian,
does to me too but I just did the math. Assuming a YS 45 would be setup with a 12 oz tank (which probably gets you a longer flight than a 3200 lipo on a P46 but nonetheless) and there are 128 oz per US gallon that gives 10.6 tanks. The rest follows... BTW, I didn't factor in things like glow plugs (@ $8 a pop) but then I didn't factor in things like chargers, 12V batteries, (or puffy lipos either).
I never did pay attention to how much I spent on fuel back in my younger years when I flew 40's often but I do remember that the gallon seemed to empty always sooner than I expected.
I think at this point in time there is little doubt that smaller aircraft are economical on electric power. Where the crossover to nitro (or gas) exactly takes place is still unclear to me. 25% or above is clearly cheapest on gas. I'm not sure if the 40/60 size scale is where electric and nitro might be comparable in some respects considering that a single lipo pack isn't very satisfactory at the field.
David.
does to me too but I just did the math. Assuming a YS 45 would be setup with a 12 oz tank (which probably gets you a longer flight than a 3200 lipo on a P46 but nonetheless) and there are 128 oz per US gallon that gives 10.6 tanks. The rest follows... BTW, I didn't factor in things like glow plugs (@ $8 a pop) but then I didn't factor in things like chargers, 12V batteries, (or puffy lipos either).
I never did pay attention to how much I spent on fuel back in my younger years when I flew 40's often but I do remember that the gallon seemed to empty always sooner than I expected.
I think at this point in time there is little doubt that smaller aircraft are economical on electric power. Where the crossover to nitro (or gas) exactly takes place is still unclear to me. 25% or above is clearly cheapest on gas. I'm not sure if the 40/60 size scale is where electric and nitro might be comparable in some respects considering that a single lipo pack isn't very satisfactory at the field.
David.
03-24-2009, 08:35 PM
#108
RE: Peppermint Pattie build
David,
A single pack might be OK depending on how you fly. A pack takes 15-20 minutes to charge to 90+%. With 2 packs you can fly (12-15 minutes), land, put it on a charger, and take off again with the first pack finishing about the time you get back to the pits. When the guys are around, it's usually charged before I take off again
(it's a social hobby). We also bring at least 3 planes so we can all get lots of stick time if we want. Generally, though, you're about right.
For my wallet, 40 is about as big as I care to go. Right now. Maybe someday I'll get one of those H9 P-51's, but the up-front cost is stopping me.
With nitro you can slip a gallon of fuel into the budget once or twice a month, but with electric it's all up-front and that understandably limits its audience.
I'm working on your 4025H in a few minutes, watch for an e-mail.
Andy
A single pack might be OK depending on how you fly. A pack takes 15-20 minutes to charge to 90+%. With 2 packs you can fly (12-15 minutes), land, put it on a charger, and take off again with the first pack finishing about the time you get back to the pits. When the guys are around, it's usually charged before I take off again
(it's a social hobby). We also bring at least 3 planes so we can all get lots of stick time if we want. Generally, though, you're about right. For my wallet, 40 is about as big as I care to go. Right now. Maybe someday I'll get one of those H9 P-51's, but the up-front cost is stopping me.
With nitro you can slip a gallon of fuel into the budget once or twice a month, but with electric it's all up-front and that understandably limits its audience.
I'm working on your 4025H in a few minutes, watch for an e-mail.
Andy
03-25-2009, 02:07 AM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
15 - 20 min to charge a lipo 90 % ? wowwww mine are 1000 mah lipo's charging at 1 amp they take one hour full charge and no less than 45 min to be 90% [
] how do you do that ?
] how do you do that ?
03-25-2009, 07:43 AM
#111
RE: Peppermint Pattie build
I don't charge at 1C! I charge my modern 2100's at up to 4A. With a smart charger like the Cellpro 4S/10S types you can let the charger automatically determine the fastest charge it can deliver based on impedance.
Because the charge rate is faster when the cell is empty (because of the larger delta-V), you actually come up much more quickly for the first part of the charge.
Andy
Because the charge rate is faster when the cell is empty (because of the larger delta-V), you actually come up much more quickly for the first part of the charge.
Andy
03-25-2009, 07:50 AM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
I think 12 oz/tank/flight is an exaggeration. Maybe the tank is that size, but do you always fly it to empty and dead stick? I don't think so. At least, I don't. So how about saying 15 flights per gallon?
Not that it makes a huge difference in the calculations.......
Not that it makes a huge difference in the calculations.......
03-25-2009, 10:23 AM
#113
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Indeed. I was aware of that and therefore mentioned a longer flight per "charge" of fuel for glow.
To go to the lower end of the scale, assuming an 8 oz flight (might be comparable to a 3200 4S lipo in duration), that would be exactly 16 flights per gallon.
But get ready... that works out to ~$100 per 64 flights on 15% nitro or a tad over $300 for 200 flights.
Looking at it from a fuel standpoint alone disregarding engine/motor & pipe/esc cost (although the glow is more $), the $300 in fuel (having been very optimistic with fuel consumption on a YS) is comparable to $240 for a pair of 4S lipos and half the cost of a good charger (~$120).
Not great news guys is it!?
Mmm... maybe I'll sell a couple of YS 45's - they are beauties though.
David.
To go to the lower end of the scale, assuming an 8 oz flight (might be comparable to a 3200 4S lipo in duration), that would be exactly 16 flights per gallon.
But get ready... that works out to ~$100 per 64 flights on 15% nitro or a tad over $300 for 200 flights.
Looking at it from a fuel standpoint alone disregarding engine/motor & pipe/esc cost (although the glow is more $), the $300 in fuel (having been very optimistic with fuel consumption on a YS) is comparable to $240 for a pair of 4S lipos and half the cost of a good charger (~$120).
Not great news guys is it!?
Mmm... maybe I'll sell a couple of YS 45's - they are beauties though.
David.
05-01-2009, 08:35 AM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Here is my latest rebuild effort, it's all recovered, some hidden damage repaired, incorrect stab incidence from the last repair was fixed.
She has an OS LA .15, 4 HS81 clone servos, it's just about ready to rock again after all these years. White Monokote, blue Ultracote,
red Monokote trim and the graphics were hand cut from 3M vinyl film and sprayed with clear gloss Lustrekote.
Dave
PS Last picture is circa 1980 before any crashes. The wing and tail have been salvaged, the fuse was all new on rebuild #2.
She has an OS LA .15, 4 HS81 clone servos, it's just about ready to rock again after all these years. White Monokote, blue Ultracote,
red Monokote trim and the graphics were hand cut from 3M vinyl film and sprayed with clear gloss Lustrekote.
Dave
PS Last picture is circa 1980 before any crashes. The wing and tail have been salvaged, the fuse was all new on rebuild #2.
05-07-2009, 11:22 AM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Thanks Nic! I am getting anxious to fly her. I still have 2 PP kits stashed away for
the future. Got those from the AHC warehouse clearance sale many many years ago.
One of them is destined for electric power, it will be very sleek.
I will give a flight report soon, I should have it test flown in a week or two.
Dave Fritzke
http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/
the future. Got those from the AHC warehouse clearance sale many many years ago.
One of them is destined for electric power, it will be very sleek.
I will give a flight report soon, I should have it test flown in a week or two.
Dave Fritzke
http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/
05-07-2009, 12:00 PM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Dave,
nice rendition of the PP!
I checked out your RC website and having just bought a Super Pacer, I noticed that you mention it was kitted by Ace but never published. However, of all people, a young Frank Tiano reviewed it in the May 77 issue of FM.
A copy of the article was kindly sent to me by Andy Kunz. Please find attached as PDF file (right click and save file as Super Pacer.pdf).
BTW, many thanks for offering your plans collection of these little old classics!
David.
nice rendition of the PP!
I checked out your RC website and having just bought a Super Pacer, I noticed that you mention it was kitted by Ace but never published. However, of all people, a young Frank Tiano reviewed it in the May 77 issue of FM.
A copy of the article was kindly sent to me by Andy Kunz. Please find attached as PDF file (right click and save file as Super Pacer.pdf).
BTW, many thanks for offering your plans collection of these little old classics!
David.
05-07-2009, 04:10 PM
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Thanks to you and Andy for that, I had never seen that review.
I don't think I ever saw a review of the Peppermint Pattie
either come to think of it.
Dave
I don't think I ever saw a review of the Peppermint Pattie
either come to think of it.
Dave
06-08-2009, 07:14 PM
#121
RE: Peppermint Pattie build
This thread has been too quiet for too long, so I thought we should have some fun. Can anybody (other than the guy in the picture) tell me who this handsome devil is and in what publication it appeared in? Have fun!
FB
FB
06-08-2009, 07:39 PM
#122
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Well... that looks like Pilot dog himself!
Not that we've met, but images I see stick in my mind. No clue on the date and location the article of the PP was published. It has been mentioned in some PP thread in the past though... Ithink.
David.
Not that we've met, but images I see stick in my mind. No clue on the date and location the article of the PP was published. It has been mentioned in some PP thread in the past though... Ithink.
David.
06-08-2009, 08:00 PM
#124
RE: Peppermint Pattie build
You guys are too good! Yup, it's Nic Damuck Jr and the article was published in R/C Sportsman March 1978. The publication included full-size plans of the PP (tiled).
Hope I didn't embarrass you too much Nic!
FB
Hope I didn't embarrass you too much Nic!
FB
06-09-2009, 03:15 AM
#125
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RE: Peppermint Pattie build
Yep, them were/be the "good old days".
My Peppermint Pattie couldn't do all of the pattern maneuvers well, such as knife-edge dependent maneuvers, but she could do the best Lomcevaks that I have ever seen -or heard. The PP is one of my faborite R/C models ever. Thanks to a fellow RCU Classic Pattern forum member, I am now in possession of an original PP kit. I am very happy to have such a prized possession in my keep.
Ed Cregger
My Peppermint Pattie couldn't do all of the pattern maneuvers well, such as knife-edge dependent maneuvers, but she could do the best Lomcevaks that I have ever seen -or heard. The PP is one of my faborite R/C models ever. Thanks to a fellow RCU Classic Pattern forum member, I am now in possession of an original PP kit. I am very happy to have such a prized possession in my keep.
Ed Cregger