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CX2 servo linkage

Old 07-06-2008, 05:31 PM
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snobelt
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Default CX2 servo linkage

About a week ago JPEE, Helistyle, Blue cnc, Soloboss and I had a thread going about moving the servo linkage of the CX2 to the second hole instead of the default first hole. Soloboss suggested going to the HOWTO WIKI web page for info on exactly that topic. The info was authored by "friends of RC Universe". If you go there you will see, under para #12, an article called "Clack is Wack". Read it. I did move my servo to the second hole and the CX2 flew great, with plenty of power. I ran a couple of batteries through it in a mild breeze and it handled great - - - until - - I needed to stop forward flight as I was approaching a tree too fast. I pulled full back on the stick and then heard the dreaded Clack. All four blades shattered. No, I did not hit the tree. The upper blades made contact with the lowers. Fortunately the heli was only a foot off the ground so no other damage besides the blades. I just wanted those of you who are interested to know that the WIKI author knew what he/she was talking about. Today I replaced the blades (and servo arm positions) and also took the advice in WIKI about balancing the CX2 blades before installing them..I was surprised at how much difference there was in out-of-the-package blades - and how easy it is to correct that. It does make a difference. My CX2 is quieter and flies smoother than it ever has.
Old 07-06-2008, 06:57 PM
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rchotrodz
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

I have mine out to the second hole with a short fly bar and I have had no problems it is very responsive
Old 07-06-2008, 08:31 PM
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soloboss
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

The secret is to get the flybar lighter / shorter so it is more responsive. That flybar is intended to resist any movement that you command via the lower blades (the blades that you control). The stock flybar is very good at its job. Moving the linkage to the second hole does work in conjunction with the flybar mod so it has less mass.

A good sequence for new fliers is outlined in the Wiki article. I know it works.
From stock, when you in control and want a little more, remove the brass weights from the rubber flybar boots.
Fly that way until you are always in control, then try the flybar mod that I outlined. Actually, you can remove the rubber boot from the stock flybar without damaging anything. With the boot removed, add two wheel collars to the 'hook' at the end of the flybar. Get collars with 1/16" hole in the center and a locking set screw.
Remove the upper blades and spin the flybar to be sure it is in balance.
If all is well, go fly.
For more performance, remove one of the weights, leaving one weight on each end. YOu should be getting pretty good performance now.

At this point, move the linkage out one hole.
I never moved my linkage at all, I just adjusted the flybar weight via the flybar mod that I outlined in the Wiki. I could get the performance so radical that I couldn't fly it. It was just too crazy.

Following the publication of the Wiki How-To, Wolfpackin put together a really nice flybar using Xtreme flybar hubs, CF rod and end weights. The finished flybar is sold on US Hobby Supply web site (ushobbysupply.com). If wolfpackin says it works, it works.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of helicopters. One day in the not too distant future we'll look for you guys on the "Struggling with Single Rotor Basics" thread within the Eflight forum. Most everyone on that thread came from the wonderful world of CX2's and the modifications we all used.

At the beginning of the Wiki aritcle is a note; "A compilation of compelling comments from the incompetent flier known as, Soloboss"
That's me.
The actual publishing to the Wiki was done by a friend who I haven't talked to in a very long time. If you find the paper worthwhile, PM DrunkYoda and tell him thank you.

It's good to hear that someone is still using the guide.

Blue Skies,
Soloboss
Old 07-06-2008, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Snowbelt and Solo,

Sorry if I/we did not warn you about the DEATH blade clack. When you take an inside Heli and start making mods things can happen. I too have exploded blades in the air outside but not in a long long time, because I knew to watch out for it. Again sorry it wasn't mentioned, we all try our best to help those pilots that are where we have just come. Then we rely the senior class ahead of us.

Solo, heak yes I use that site too. It had been so long since I used the CX2. I took her out and she had toilet bowl syndrom, but I forgotton what to do. It is in my Favorites.
Old 07-06-2008, 09:48 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage


ORIGINAL: soloboss

The secret is to get the flybar lighter / shorter so it is more responsive. That flybar is intended to resist any movement that you command via the lower blades (the blades that you control). The stock flybar is very good at its job. Moving the linkage to the second hole does work in conjunction with the flybar mod so it has less mass.

A good sequence for new fliers is outlined in the Wiki article. I know it works.
From stock, when you in control and want a little more, remove the brass weights from the rubber flybar boots.
Fly that way until you are always in control, then try the flybar mod that I outlined. Actually, you can remove the rubber boot from the stock flybar without damaging anything. With the boot removed, add two wheel collars to the 'hook' at the end of the flybar. Get collars with 1/16" hole in the center and a locking set screw.
Remove the upper blades and spin the flybar to be sure it is in balance.
If all is well, go fly.
For more performance, remove one of the weights, leaving one weight on each end. YOu should be getting pretty good performance now.

At this point, move the linkage out one hole.
I never moved my linkage at all, I just adjusted the flybar weight via the flybar mod that I outlined in the Wiki. I could get the performance so radical that I couldn't fly it. It was just too crazy.

Following the publication of the Wiki How-To, Wolfpackin put together a really nice flybar using Xtreme flybar hubs, CF rod and end weights. The finished flybar is sold on US Hobby Supply web site (ushobbysupply.com). If wolfpackin says it works, it works.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of helicopters. One day in the not too distant future we'll look for you guys on the "Struggling with Single Rotor Basics" thread within the Eflight forum. Most everyone on that thread came from the wonderful world of CX2's and the modifications we all used.

At the beginning of the Wiki aritcle is a note; "A compilation of compelling comments from the incompetent flier known as, Soloboss"
That's me.
The actual publishing to the Wiki was done by a friend who I haven't talked to in a very long time. If you find the paper worthwhile, PM DrunkYoda and tell him thank you.

It's good to hear that someone is still using the guide.

Blue Skies,
Soloboss
Soloboss - Okay, I have read and re-read all the good info you and Drunk Yoda provided on the CX WIKI. One thing I'm not clear on - - the flybars were cut down to 3 3/8" of exposed metal. Is that 3 3/8" of each flybar rod half or of the combined halfs? In other words, would that dimension be from locking collar to locking collar - that seems pretty small but your photos almost look like it could be. In any case I have an extra flybar and I'm ready to mod it per the CX article. Side note - where did you get the boom and any advice on that mod?
You know, I've been driving this thing around the house and garage since last fall and was kind of losing interest until I discovered there are guys outside with some minor mods made.
So I'm ready to try some new stuff. If I break a few blades, what the hell - it's better than watching the heli sit on a shelf. Thanks much.
Old 07-07-2008, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

A shorter flybar is a must if you are planning on increasing the preformance of a CX2 by moving the servo horn positions. I was also on the receiving end of clack a time or two as I progressed through my CX2 comfort zone. I ended up modding my flybar to a shorter length and adding bullet weights on the end. I now have my servo horns on the very outside hole on the elevator and the 4th hole on aler. With the shortened flybar I can almost not get my blades to clack. I have not spaced my blades apart with a lengthened shaft as is said to be a requirment. It's not. A shorter flybar is. You can order a shorter bar from www.boomtownhobbies.com that approximates what I did to mine.

Good luck.

Uri
Old 07-07-2008, 11:07 AM
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soloboss
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Sorry the information was ambiguous ( i love that word).
You want 3 3/8" of exposed metal ON EACH SIDE of the plastic part of the flybar. You are absolutely correct that a total length of 3 3/8" is too short for a flybar. You could go that short if it weighed enough, I suppose, but it would be as heavy as the battery pack!!

Remember that the control from the flybar is a result of the spinning mass. You have a choice of using a long flybar with light weight or a short flybar with heavier weight.

I had a brainstorm once and used a flybar with NO weight. I cut the hook off the end of the metal and put a long piece of CF tube over the metal. The CF tube we . . . wow, I don't recall exactly, but I'm thinking it was 8" long measured from the plastic hub to the end - oneach side. That flybar was a bit longer than the blades. I think it would have worked, but the wind resistance from a long flybar like that was too much. It slowed the upper rotor response.

That brings out another issue. If you get the flybar to spin more easily (some combination of shorter / lighter) the upper rotor assembly (blades and flybar) will accelerate faster. Ideally the upper rotor assembly and the lower rotor assembly will accelerate at the same rate so the tail stays in alignment when you hit the power.

Keep playing with the flybar and we'll see if you come up with something we missed.

EDIT: I forgot to answer our questions about the boom. That's a BoomTownHobbies boom and skids. They are about as close to unbreakable as it gets.
Soloboss
Old 07-07-2008, 08:01 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Soloboss - you are brilliant! I closely followed your plans to build a lighter flybar. (see photos)
I very carefully balanced the new flybar and it makes a world of difference. Smoother and more responsive. I have not yet moved the servo linkage back to the second hole and I'm not sure I need to. The response is quite impressive and it handles easily - I can finally lock in a dead steady hover. I am still getting a little drift as the airborne stuff heats up but I will mod the case with vent holes as soon as I get the chance. I do already have the motor heat-sinks on and the motors seem to tolorate successive flights quite well. BTW - do I see heat shrink on your flybar? Were you worried about the collars coming loose? Thanks for all your input.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:31 PM
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soloboss
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Snobelt,
Thanks for the good words. I do what I can. As I said in the article, just between you and me and 20000 others listening, I'd go with the flybar mod first. Many find that they don't need to move the linkage. I never did. Most others do. Get happy. It's your helicopter. And you can keep moving that weight inboard as you get better. Expect that you will find a place where the weights are so far inboard that you can't control the helicopter, but just before that point the little bugger will be quite athletic. When you get to that point, spin it up quick and go fly 'cause it won't hover.

Yep, you do see heat shrink. Good catch. I wanted just a little more weight for the way my CX was set up - and I wanted the black-out look to include the weights. So I figured heat shrink is the way to go. Works fine, by the way.

A word of caution is also in order. When you decide where you want the weight collars, it's a good idea to use a Dremel and put a little divot in the flybar rod so the set screw of the collar has something to lock into. You DO NOT want the collar flying off at speed.

Something you might try. CF tube is really tough but the fibers that make up the tube run lengthwise - like bamboo. You will eventually whack something that will split the CF tube. And usually it splits at the inboard end next to the plastic center thing. You might want to shrink a quarter in long piece of sleeve at the inboard end of each CF tube, just to make it really tough.

And that's one pretty CX2 you have. Very neat and tidy with the nearly invisible flybar. Of course you can paint the flybar and CF tube if you like. If you clearcoat it, it goes invisible! LOL
And I like the full body. I always thought that the CX handled better with the full body on it, but I went with the boom because I kept breaking the tail section doing . . . experiments, as I recall. And of course the majority changed to the boom because - you guessed it. The heli handles better with the boom. The boom is less susceptible to side winds. Whatever. Be happy.

Have a ball with the CX and don't worry about the folks moving to the single rotor helicopters. Most guys do move to the single rotor helicopters eventually. And most of us still have our CX / CX2 sitting, ready for duty. Glad I could help!

Big Happy!
Soloboss
Old 07-08-2008, 05:56 AM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

FYI Some where I read that someone had removed the weights from their stock flybar and it flew great. I tried it. I do not recommend it. Talk about loss of control. I like the clean looks of what you have done with the flybar snobelt.

Rob
Old 07-08-2008, 06:15 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Well, that isn't mine design - credit to soloboss for that, but thanks anyway. This is kind of nuts though. I was getting a bit bored with the CX2 until I realized I was only half way up the curve with it. It has become a far more interesting little machine since that change. The other part is that I also discovered how very important balance is, even in a counter-rotator. Now that I am flying it outside in mild breezes, it has become a lot more fun and challanging. Of course we all aspire to a 450 (or bigger) collective and I'm sure I'll get there but for now this'll do.
I've been busy flying planks this year too and can only do so much, but ain't it great to have such a dilema?
Old 07-08-2008, 10:52 PM
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stariondriver
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

i am flying mine with stock flybar no weights just the rubber peice one hole out on both servos. works good. yo ustill have to go easy with stick inputs if you jam it hard you get clack.
Old 07-09-2008, 06:26 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

stariondriver - yeah, I know. even with my reduced weight flybar I can get a clack if I push the stick too hard. There may no real answer except to know the limits. I was out last evening and it was bit breezy but I went up anyway. I was making a pass downwind and had pretty good speed going but I pulled back hard to stop it and it clacked. It definitely takes more to clack now but it still can happen. I have started to push it and am getting some pretty good fast laps around the yard - goes like hell downwind but struggles to get back. One thing I found out was that it will make nice banked turns at speed but you can get it over too far and stall it. lost a couple blades doing that too. This ain't no collective but I do think one can learn a lot from these little birds. Good thing parts are cheap. Imagine making these mistakes with a 600 TREX.
Old 07-10-2008, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

snobelt.

I see you are already learning the do's and don'ts of good aggressive outdoor flight. The wide banking turns really look good but take a lot of room. Try doing a figure 8. And watch out with rudder control. I accidentally turned the tail up and nosed right into the ground. Another thing. When flying with the wind it is possible to match the winds speed and lose altitude. At a few feet off the ground it is too hard to recover. Both of these crashes resulted in busted blades, bent shafts and shattered bodies. But hey, putting them back together is half the fun. I like to assemble models and these heli's are like models that I can fly. I am off to the LHS to get a couple of locking collars to customize my fly bar. See ya.

Rob
Old 07-10-2008, 05:00 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Rob - I need a bit more room for the figure 8's than my yard provides but I will take it down to the local flying field some calm evening an give it a try. Windy today so I'm going to fly one of my planes - I need the stick time on that too. Send photos of your modifications.
Old 07-10-2008, 06:58 PM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

snobelt

What I did to my flybar is almost an exact duplication of what you did. Instead of CF covering the exposed metal I used some shrink tubing that I already have. Looks great. Tried it out in my living room. After the needed adjustments it flew like a dream. It is amazing that Eflite doesn't adopt some of the mods that people do on their CX2. It took 15 minutes to modify my fly bar. A small investment for a great return. Of course once I got done putting the heli back together a thunder storm moved in and I can't test my mods. FYI. I tried to remove some paint from my canopy with acetone and destroyed it. That was my spare canopy. Darn. I guess lexan is not indestructible. I think the rain has stopped. Time to go fly. Keep in touch.

Rob
Old 07-10-2008, 11:45 PM
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Dopesick
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

I wish I could have found this thread, yesterday. I moved my control links out, 1 hole. MAN, did I love the speed, reposnse and control. Until that odd sound I've never heard before. AHHHCK! mid air blade strike, Only between my own set of blades.

What a glorious display of power, to shred a set of blades via your own doing. After replacing both lowers, and 1 upper blade. Laughs - man these parts are cheap... (thanks aeromicro). I took her for a flight this evening. Wouldn't you know it. I lose a rubber boot on the fly bar weight.

So I am off the the LHS tomorow, to pick up some CF tubing, and some wheel Collars. Oh, and thank goodness for the CSRC battery tip I found as well!
Old 07-11-2008, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Dopesick

Glad to have you aboard. On my flybar I used the collars/weights that would go on the flybar of the Blade CP. My LHS had one set left in stock. Once you modify your flybar you may have to adjust the proportional mix on your 4 in 1 to keep her from spinning one direction. Of course it is a nice calm day and I'm at work. Let us know how everything turns out.

Rob
Old 07-11-2008, 04:15 PM
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Dopesick
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Well I have already cheated in that department. I cliped the U bend off of the flybar, bent an L, and then heatshrink tubing'd the stock weights about 1/4" in from stock. I liked the gain in response.

So I will head the the LHS this evening and pick up some CF tubing, and some collars.
Old 07-12-2008, 02:43 AM
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Dopesick
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Update...

I decided to get a bit gutsy. I cut my flybar to 3-1/4" Inch. Slide on some CF tubing, and a wheel colar. Came out 1 whole gram lighter then stock. The difference in weight and length was enough that I could move back to the second hole on my servo's without the BCoD!

Horray! I am now one happy abusive CX2 pilot. Man this thing will move on you. However I have noticed 1 draw back that I am not happy with, but need to work on.

The heli seems a bit more apt to wind movement now. I'm thinking much with improved control response on my end, wind effects it the same now as well. Oh well, I can still get quick recontrol of it.
Old 07-12-2008, 05:14 PM
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snobelt
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Have you tried to balance your blade sets yet? It makes a remarkable difference in system smoothness and control. Now that I am looking for it, I am finding that almost no two blades are matched right out of the package. Balancing the flybar also proved to be a worthwhile endeavor. It is really simple and only requires a folded up business card to test the balance of the blades or flybar and a piece of packaging tape for the blades and a Dremel grinder for the flybar.
Old 07-12-2008, 05:18 PM
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Dopesick
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Since I've been into planes so long, that was the first thing I did. Makes a HUGE difference in throttle change stability. I've gotten so anal about it, that i match blades, and set them aside. Thank goodness the blades are cheap.
Old 04-21-2009, 06:13 PM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Hi All,

Just looked at this thread. Great information. I used a gift card from Verizon to buy a new CX2 through Amazon. The certificate was restricted to only a couple stores. Not sure why I never got one before they are great fun especially after I demolish my HB King II or wipe out my Walkera.

I have a question. I balanced the blades - huge difference and moved my linkages out to the third hole. I fly out doors (Its Santa Barbara, there is only one thing we do indoors) I have read about the Klack and what causes it so will probably shorten the flybar. However, before I make that move I wondered if anyone has tried to shorten the lower blades a bit, maybe 1/2". That seems like an easier soluton than lengthening the main shaft or shortening the flybar - but maybe not. Anyone try that yet?

Thanks,
Old 04-21-2009, 07:23 PM
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Dopesick
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Actually, quite a few people have clip'd the blades.

Personally, I dislike this method. While throttle response become a bit more snappy, you suffer in the lift department. And "all up weight" becomes an issue.

If you have CNC mods, I say skip this. And check into some of the after market shaft replacements that place more space between the upper and lower rotor heads.
Old 04-21-2009, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: CX2 servo linkage

Thanks Dopesick. Did the blade clipping actually work?

The flybar fix sounds good but the extended shaft seems that would put additional leverage and stress on the lower framework during a crash.

Definitely a fun bird to fly.

Thanks for getting back to me.

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