TechyJoe

LONGBOARDT3

I recently placed a bead of bathroom caulk around the deck seal.  The seal is to tight now I can baraly remove the deck lid off once in place.  I need to grab the Lisa figure and really pull. 

I also did the same around the deck screw rubber grommet as well as around the Lisa figure's feet.  I haven't tested this yet but I will.  I will also post some new pictures soon.  Pictures won't be available until Monday or Tuesday.

LONGBOARDT3

then wait for those pictures!
I do not know where water enters the hull
I go crazy!.jajajaja

pd:I like it more every day here forum

jocktime

The Lias's always have water problems. You have to reinforce the deck lid so it won't flex
when under pressure from waves. (photo of old Lisa deck lid) That is one reason I would rather modify
the board shark. The shark has better gaskets and has 5 deck screws, and if you reinforce the deck lid
you will have no leaks. mine are always bone dry.

Yowza

Hi people, so glad I found this site!

I've just brought a new complete kit of theKyosho ******** (dude) and have gone through putting it all together. (I'll put some pics up soon).

Now after a little researchi've brought a couple of things to make it a brushless setup, this is where I need some advice from you guys as you obviously know what your talking about (I'm new to the RC scene).

Ok, so far i've brought:

Motor - Feigao 9L 2,887 RPM/Volt 1/8" shaft (with water jacket)

ESC - SEAKING Water-Cool Brushless Motor 90A Programmable ESC

Octura 0.98 flex cable with dog drive

Octura X430 propeller

Some Deans Ultra plugs

My questions so far are

1) will this setup be ok for the little surfer (motor not too big, ESC big enough etc etc)?

2) what would be the best battery to run this setup (Lipo or NiMh?)?

Thanks guys, look forward to your reply :-)

TechyJoe

Yowsa

from my experience:

1) You will definitely need to use Lipo battery packs (3 cell). The 6 cell Nicads can’t seem to turn the brushless motor – at least not in my case (as specified in a previous post).

2) The motor selection is also appropriate. I earlier posted that I was going to install a 4500kv motor (not to be confused with RPMs) but instead opted for a 3300kv motor (lower RPM) and it works great. I also think the 90amp ESC is plenty big enough. However, I couldn’t tell from your post if your ESC is water cooled as well as the motor.

TechyJoe

Ok

I received, installed and tested my new ETTI water cooled 45amp ESC along with some new hosing to replace the original junk hose. I also added a larger water intake extension to the original to help scoop up and force more water into the system. I'll be placing some new pictures soon.

P.S
I am still seeing some leaks so I will describe my new technique for locating them in the next post (need some pictures).

Yowza

TechyJoe

Thanks for the reply. I've brought a water jacket for the motor and the Seaking 90AESCcomes with water-cooling.

So with this setupsay a 7.2v 5000mah NiMh wouldn't be any good?
I've neverused LiPo before and not sure whatvolts I need and mah etc etc with this type of motor & ESC. Would this be agood option.....INTELLECT 3300mah 25C LiPo BATTERY 3S 11.1V
I'm not real sure what the 25c & 35c etc mean?

Sorry for all the questions, but i'm new to this sort of stuff and only learning through this forum.

Sounds like you getting yours running good. Will be good to see some recent photos. I'll put some of mine up over the weekend. I haven't received the new parts yet, there coming from Offshoreelectric.com & a place in Hong Kong. Hopefully in the next week or 2 it will be installed.

This is the ESC i've brought....

sukeroku

Total rookie here...please bear with me.

I've seen some "Surf Lisa"  boards with yellow decks for sale online,
but the ones I have seen on this thread have white decks, so I'm assuming the yellow deck
boards are Chinese copies (listing at about  $70)  I'm trying to decide between buying that or
 a cheaper Board Shark. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

BTW I am still looking for a Kyosho here in Japan...

Yowza

Hi Sukeroku,

Ihad a NQD a few years back(Still have a Bondi Surfer as well as my new KyoshoRC surfer dudenow)and thecheap chinese copiesare very ordinary out ofthe box. The Lisa figure is hollow and needs to be filled with plumbers expanding foam as mentioned by surfcurls in previous posts to strengthen (I've tried this and it made Lisa too heavy and wouldn't self-right properly) but others have had luck. Plus the deck needs to be checked for leaks (likely to need new deck seals which surfcurls.com sells or by some from you local hardware. It's called closed cell foam.

I find the Lisa stands too tall compared to the original Kyosho 'dude' so that doesn't help with self righting either.

I haven't used a Board Sharks surfer before, but i've heard the self righting is even worse, plus there is gearing inside the hull to make the guy turn, while this might look good, it's just more stuff to go wrong.

What you'll have to do is completely remove all the internals of the board and replace with proper RC gear. I'm in the process of doing this with the originalKyosho 'dude' by replacing it with a brushless setup. I'll keep everyone posted on how it goes. I'm new to changing RCelectronics over, hence i'm here for some help also. So glad I came across this site!

LONGBOARDT3

After trying various materials, I have the solution for my water leaks on the board of a hardware tapa.en I bought a foam that is used in door for the closure is tight....$ 1 for one meters. the adhesive mesh is strong, as you see in the picture.and works well if you come to after a long day of surfing.


S.O.S.......I have read that some or most of the antenna does not wear out ... you have the helmet on ... as you do?

TechyJoe

Sukeroku
I think both the white deck and yellow deck boards are from the same maker and they are both Chinese...... And they both leak according to the thread here for I have a white one and LongBoardt3 has a yellow one.

However, $70.00 seems to high. You need to look around. I posted a link a page or so back to Longboardt3 about this. I only paid $40.00 + tax and shipping for my Lisa.

TechyJoe

Yowsa

You can try your 6 cell 7.2 volt with your setup to see if it works - It won't hurt anything. If it can't turn the motor, do not keep trying it - just stop.

A small lesson on batteries etc:

Nicad battery packs consist of 1 or more cells. each cell is 1.2 volts. So 6 cells X 1.2 = 7.2v. This is what the cheap stock 540 motors are rated for.

Lipo packs can also be made up of several cells. They are typically 2,3 or 4 cells. Each cell here is 3.7volts. Your brushless motor can handle the 11.1volt Lipo and probably will need 11.1v to push enough current to start it turning.

Your brushless motor can deliver more torque and power (circular power) but also requires more current to start it turning.

So, in short, if you go to Lipo packs use 11.1v. However, Lipo packs require a special charger made for Lipo batteries. You can't charge a Lipo pack using a nicad Charger.

As for the current ratings, such as 5000mah, this is a rating of how much current a battery can supply for one hour. So, your 5000mah means that that pack can supply 5amps or 5000 milli-amps for one hour. This is a fairly large capacity battery and the larger the capacity, usually the more expensive the packs become.

So, I took some measurements of current draw from my setup and found that it draws about 10-12amps of current. So for simple math purposes lets say the motor draws 10amps (full throttle).

10amps / 5.0amps/h = 2

Convert hours to minutes:
So there are 60 minutes in 1 hour and 60 / 2 = 30 minutes. Your battery should provide 10 amps for 30 minutes.

For the 3000mah pack: 10/3.3 = .33 or 3 so 60 / 3 = 20 minutes.

BTW: your ESC should work great. Like I said, the motor does not draw a lot of current so a huge ESC is not needed. What is more important is that these devices get no air so they tend to get hot so it is more important that they keep cool. The larger ESC tend to have larger heat sinks to they can handle more heat. With water cooling, you should have no problems.

LONGBOARDT3

S.O.S.......I have read that some or most of the antenna does not wear out ... you have the helmet on ... as you do?
thankyou

sukeruku I'll send you the website where I bought my surfer

TechyJoe

I took Lisa out for a spin on the ocean today and she ran GREAT! Leaks fixed. My wife couldn't believe it. She saw the original Lisa which could not get out of her own way and didn't expect to see much today. But Lisa was jumping over waves and getting air of two feet. Didn't run her long because I wanted to check for leaks (5 minutes or so).

Here are some new pictures with the water cooled ESC and larger water intake port.

Left to right:
1) Completed Lisa with new ESC, 2) Close up of ESC, 3) caulk sealed prop shaft, expanded intake port, 4) fiberglassed in weight

TechyJoe

FYI
Don't forget to remove the rear cap which seals in the rudder control harness & wire and wash this out with fresh water after use. Water gets in to this area and the salt will corrode the screw etc.

TechyJoe

Yowza

Let us know if the Kyosho leaks.

sukeroku

Yowza, TechyJoe and Longboard, thanks for the the suggestions. I found a white decked NQD Lisa on
a Japanese site for 4280 yen which is a better price than before (the exchange rate is a little high
now but it roughly translates to $40). I hit all the major RC shops in Akihabara yesterday putting my
my Japanese skills to use in the shops and on the web but noone could find me a Kyosho so I am
going to go with this one. The challenge is going to be the modifications since I am a surfer not an RC guy.
Give me fiberglass and some resin and I can fix any ding but this electronics stuff is a little daunting...
but I'm game! I'm may take the thing to Akihabara when I get it and see if the guys at Futaba Sangyo
can help me out. They seemed to be the friendlist shop I visited.

Any suggestions as far as gutting the board and getting reasonable set up would be appreciated...
How much $$$ are talking about laying out here? I'm not taliking about a "superboard" just a decent
functional setup that will give me ample power and surf time.

TechyJoe

sukeroku

Are you really from Japan? Where exactly? This is so cool ! We have Spain, Japan and the US. Your English writing is superb. How did it get so good?

Anyway, if you read many of the posts here you can get a good idea of some good setups. Mine cost me about $150.00 US dollars but I used a Radio I already owned and a battery pack I already owned from model airplanes.

Here would be my total cost if I purchased everything together:

1) Lisa Surfer: $40.00
2) EZ-Run 540 Brushless motor $60.00
3) Etti Water cooled ESC with BEC (you want BEC) $60.00
4) 2 channel 75mhz Am radio $50.00
5) 2200mah Lipo Battery $40.00

$250.00
This does not include the Lipo Battery Charger

Go back and start to read from page 10 of this thread. I tried to outline all of the steps I performed from the start so others would not need to encounter the same issues as me. Do not use the Vaseline idea - it was not so good. Use the seal material that SurfCurls presented.

Also, try Ebay for a Kyosho Surfer.

LONGBOARDT3

TechyJoe
have to write as you made the entry of cold water to the engine and place the antenna inside the helmet.
I have a speed control without refrigeration and the truth is very hot.I think I can make a system equal to the motor.
greetings

Yowza

TechyJoe-

Thanks heaps for the battery info. I think i'll just use the ordinary NiCd 1800 mahbattery that i've got from the Bondi Surfer Girl for the moment until the new motor, ESC etc arrive (The Kyosho came with a 1400 mah NiCd which is prob about 7 or 8 years old). Then buy the Lipo's when I install the new gear.

I tried it yesterday for the first time in the water. It went ok, bit better then I thought it would. I checked for leaks when I got home and there was a few drops of water inside. I think this is due to the crappy deck screw grommets that it comes with. As soon as the screw starts to tighten the grommet pops out the side of the screw head. So I was only screwing them in a little.

Anyone got any ideas for better sealing of the deck screws??? (I've already ordered some of the surfcurls screws as the washers look better on the webpage, hopefully this will fix it)

You setup looks really good TechyJoe - Nice and clean. Glad it's all going well now with the ESC. That's what these surfers really need, instead of the simple on/off function of the servo switch.

I'm going to take it out today again, so i'll take some pictures and post them later tonight.

sukeroku-If you go to www.ebay.com.au and type in RC Surfer you will be able to bid on them, they have been going for approx 20-30 Australian $. They start of with no reserve, so you might get it for a couple of dollars. Worth a look anyway if you haven't already brought one.

sukeroku

I live in Japan, Yokohama to be exact but I'm an American expat (born and raised in NJ). Hopefully, my English is pretty good. My Japanese is also pretty good and I can navigate Japanese websites with little difficulty. E-bay is not big here, instead we have Yahoo Auction. I've looked around quite a bit and haven't had any luck finding a real Kyosho Surfer here...yet.
I'm plannng on assembling my Surfer here and then bringing it back to the States to play with while on vacation in late July. My brother in law has a decent RC car setup so I will probably have a decent transmitter and charger available (not sure if its a Lipo or a NiCad). While my Japanese is quite good I am a little concernied with the RC terminology in Japanese. Just to clarify your setup suggestions:

1) NQD Surf Lisa...I have reread all the pages on this forum and I am really tempted to go with the Board Shark but I think if I can seal the Surf Lisa deck, fill the figure with plumber`s foam, and attach the lead to the keel then I will be in good shape. The articulated figure on the Board Shark appears to be a pain as well as the issue with the gear box).

2) 540 Brushless...do I go sensor or sensorless? Also, I understand that it shoould be water cooled. (BTW what is a water jacket?) Finally there is this 19T business (my understanding is that this has to go with power vs speed). I need to be pretty specific here since i will be going to discount hobby shops and communicating in Japanese (any Japanese brand recommendations).

3) Watercooled ESC with BEC...Reading this thread it appears that 40A appears to be sufficient. (Still trying to understand what BEC is/does but I know I need).

4) Transmitter...Is the unit that comes with the NQD Sur Lisa inadequate? Again, perhaps, my brother in law can hook me up...

5) Battery...I may go with NiCad to save some cash (my brother in law probably has a NiCad charger) what NiCad setuo would you recommend?

6) Servo...will I need a new one? if so any specs you advise...

Long post, lots of questions...one of the big RC stores here is having a big sale so I might make out with good stuff at a good price but I need to be specific about what I'm ordering.

(You've been a great help!)


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TechyJoe

Hi Guys

I will try and answer Yowza's questions first and then if I have time today, I'll move on to sukeroku 's questions. If I can't answer them all today, I'll post more tomorrow.

Yowza
I thought my leaks were also coming in from the screws. However it wasn't the screws at all but still the deck seals.

Here I will outline how I went about testing for leaks in the motor area compartment (air pressure testing):

1) Remove the deck screws, deck with the Lisa figure.
2) Disconnect the intake cooling hose from either the motor cooling coil or from the intake port and lay loose inside the motor area.
3) Place the deck and Lisa figure back in place and tighten the screws completely.
4) Connect a long external hose to the intake port on the bottom of the hull
5) Submerse the surf board in calm water such as in a tub or pool.
6) Blow into the external hose.

The preasure inside the motor area will cause the air to leak out and bubble in the leaky areas. You will probably see bubbles from the deck area, the propeller and the rudder.

Here is a picture of the hose I disconnected and the hose I attached to the bottom intake port.

TechyJoe

More on leaks

Those darn pesky leaks.

I have also tried covering the screw heads with this gummy material called funtack (can be found in hardware stores where tape and glue are found). This stuff is typically used by kids for hanging posters. This stuff worked pretty well in frash water but I think the salt water shrinks it and makes it fall off. I'm not sure because my screws heads were not leaking so I stopped using this.

I have also tried sealing the prop shaft with ordinary bath caulk where the shaft meets the hull but the salt water seems to shrink this as well and makes it come loose.

I am going to try plumbers putty next on the sahft to see how this works. If you do not seal the prop shaft, you will get water inside the hull. I don't think the board will sink but it makes it heavier and then the board becomes much slower in the water and your battery will drain faster.

So, one thing I did find which works pretty well:. Electrical tape ! I outline the entire deck seal area with this after I screw the deck down as a preventitive measure. Maybe placing some small peices of this over the screw heads will work.

Of course this is a one time use application. once you remove it to replace the battery, you need to put fresh tap in place.

Here are some more pictures of the funtack over a screw head and electrical tape.

TechyJoe

sukeroku
I'll try to answer your questions:

1) I didn't find the need to fill the Lisa Figure with plumbers foam. However, I did need to glue her head on better. It also appears to me that board shark builders made the "dude" figure static (not sure how this is done. maybe just glue him in place).

2) I an not a motor expert. Motor theory can be quite complicated. What I do know is that 19T or xxT stands for the number of wire winding turns around the motor armature. I believe the higher the number of turns usually the more torque and less RPM. A 19T motor is typically a "Brushed" motor and is what a lot of RC cars builders use. I guess because it is a middle of the road motor selection (good trade off between power and speed). Most people speak of motors in terms of Turns and KV. KV can be used to determine RPM. RPM = KV * volts. So my RPM = 3300KV * 11.1.

As for sensor versus sensor less, I don't know much about this but it has to do with the motor and the ESC knowing the exact position of the armature at all times. Depending on where the armature of the motor is position at rest, depends on how much current is needed to start the motor turning. I believe these setups require that the ESC be a sensored ESC. I believe a sensor less motor will work with virtually any ESC.
My motor is sensor less and it cost less. What I have notice with mine is that sometimes It takes a second or two to get the motor turning I guess depending on where the armature has stopped. You may need to go sensor less if you want to use the Nicad packs (you will really need to research this more - try Google searching "sensor versus sensor less motors" etc.).

The water jacket is a jacket that slips over your motor which water runs through to keep it cool. Your Surfer comes with a water coil so you will not need a jacket.

3) 40+ amp ESC should work. BEC stands for Battery Elimination Circuit. What this does is it removes the need to have an extra 4 volt battery pack to power your radio receiver. instead it uses the main motor battery for both powering the receiver as well as your motor. This will save you space and headache not having to worry about two battery systems.

4) The Radio that comes with the surfer is junk. It is not proportional meaning when you steer you get full right or full left only and when you throttle, you get full throttle or stop. You will need to replace this with RC quality proportional radio equipment. These can be purchased for about $50.00 and they come with pistol grip Transmitter, receiver and usually two full size servos.

5) ? -
Your Surfer comes with a cheap charger. This is a trickle charger. Should work but it will take several hours to charge. Quick chargers cost more but charge packs in about 1 hour. I used Nicads for a long time flying airplanes but bit the bullet two years ago to invest in Lipos.

6) A new 2 channel radio will typically come with 1-2 full size servos. I like Futaba radios. It is reasonably priced and the quality is outstanding.

I hope that if any of this is information is incorrect, others will chime in to correct me.

sukeroku

TechyJoe,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Between the pictures on the thread and these detailed explainations i feel like I'm getting a handle on this stuff. If the problem with the figure is only leakage then I can seal her up. I think weighted the keel should take care of the righting issues. I'll go with the safe route with a sensored motor (without the waterjacket) and I'll get the 40amp esc with bec. I'll check again with my brother-in-law regarding the radio but the Futaba shop is local so maybe I can get a deal. As far as batteries and charger I'll explore the LiPo if I can afford it.

Here's a link to the Lisa i am planning to purchase. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/mylife/rs08sf-01white/ I was going to bid on the ebay.au but the seller doesn't internationally. (I stilll might pick up a Board Shark to fool around with since they can be had pretty cheap).