Powerbox Battery cell issues
10-05-2009, 11:10 AM
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Powerbox Battery cell issues
Powerbox systems appears to have a case of false advertising going on. They tell you in their manual for their batteries:
"These batteries are a guaranteed product - “Made in Germany”! IONITY cells are certified and accredited according to ISO 9000 and UNDOT, and all bear UL certifi-cation."
However, I had a 2800 mah battery swell up on me, so I decided to open the case to see what type of cells it had since it was off of their 1 year warranty. What I found surprised me; I found eufine chinese cells in it. When I contacted the company and asked for a replacement, over a month later, still no word.
Anyways, the pictures are attached and pictures don't lie. I'm going to avoid powerbox systems in the future because they charge you extra to have "Made in Germany" cells, but you are actually getting chinese stuff that swells up. Imagine if I flew the plane with cells this swollen and had it rupture???? My 8000 dollar 46% Ultimate would have burned up with it.
Yours could too.
David
"These batteries are a guaranteed product - “Made in Germany”! IONITY cells are certified and accredited according to ISO 9000 and UNDOT, and all bear UL certifi-cation."
However, I had a 2800 mah battery swell up on me, so I decided to open the case to see what type of cells it had since it was off of their 1 year warranty. What I found surprised me; I found eufine chinese cells in it. When I contacted the company and asked for a replacement, over a month later, still no word.
Anyways, the pictures are attached and pictures don't lie. I'm going to avoid powerbox systems in the future because they charge you extra to have "Made in Germany" cells, but you are actually getting chinese stuff that swells up. Imagine if I flew the plane with cells this swollen and had it rupture???? My 8000 dollar 46% Ultimate would have burned up with it.
Yours could too.
David
10-05-2009, 01:10 PM
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RE: Powerbox Battery cell issues
Not that it really matters at all to this discussion, but ALL of the LiPo batteries are made in either China or Korea (the better ones are from Korea for now). I am sure they assembled them in Germany from Chinese made parts. In America a majority of the total sum of the base parts must be made in America to be called "Made in America". I can't remember the precise percentage, but IIRC more than 50% to 60% of the total "value" added to the final product must be made in America.
Sorry to see that happened to you, good thing you caught it before any problems.
Sorry to see that happened to you, good thing you caught it before any problems.
10-05-2009, 01:27 PM
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RE: Powerbox Battery cell issues
Actually I just got an email back from someone from their company. I'll post it here. I guess they WERE made in Germany, now they are made in China. I just live up to the expectation that when someone states something and uses it as a marketing tool, that it be true. If you own their batteries, look through the manual and you'll see in several cases they state over and over again that the cells are made in Germany by the only german manufacturer of Lipos. It is very clear.
Anyways, the email I got:
"Hello David,
why shall I write you the interna story of the cells?
IONITY was a German manufacturer of the first cells what we have had, this cells were designed special for PowerBox Systems and were produced from May 2003 to end of 2006 in Germany special for us. Then the company IONITY was buy from Samsung, to produce only their own cells, but the production in Germany was Samsung too expensive, they want only the very high level production , and so they take the complete production line to China, the company hall in Germany, near Dresden, is complete empty, all machineries are transported to China, but we have a contract for always 2 years with IONITY, and when Samsung buy this company, they buy also all contracts, so we can get our special size of cells, produced with the same machinery as in Germany from Samsung, but the cells they named eufine ( European fine cells ), this is all, so you have the same cells as from the German manufactory, and the same expensive price, because they produce it only for us.
kind regards / mit freundlichen Grüßen
Emmerich Deutsch"
Anyways, the email I got:
"Hello David,
why shall I write you the interna story of the cells?
IONITY was a German manufacturer of the first cells what we have had, this cells were designed special for PowerBox Systems and were produced from May 2003 to end of 2006 in Germany special for us. Then the company IONITY was buy from Samsung, to produce only their own cells, but the production in Germany was Samsung too expensive, they want only the very high level production , and so they take the complete production line to China, the company hall in Germany, near Dresden, is complete empty, all machineries are transported to China, but we have a contract for always 2 years with IONITY, and when Samsung buy this company, they buy also all contracts, so we can get our special size of cells, produced with the same machinery as in Germany from Samsung, but the cells they named eufine ( European fine cells ), this is all, so you have the same cells as from the German manufactory, and the same expensive price, because they produce it only for us.
kind regards / mit freundlichen Grüßen
Emmerich Deutsch"
10-05-2009, 02:13 PM
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RE: Powerbox Battery cell issues
Interesting story, and it appears I was wrong about the LiPo cells (although they are NOW made in China).
Are they going to replace them for you? What charger did you use?
Are they going to replace them for you? What charger did you use?
10-05-2009, 03:30 PM
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RE: Powerbox Battery cell issues
The batteries themselves have a charger built into them, as well as a regulator. They are pretty nifty in that regard. There is a charger extension that you plug into the batteries from the wall and the batteries have a light that goes from orange to green when they are done charging.
They have not offered to replace the cells, they simply tell me that its ok to fly with cells that swollen. Lol. I refuse to do that.
"Hello David,
the swollen cells come not from the cells alone,
normal the cells are thick when the voltage goes down in the cells under 2,6 volts and always when you charge it the cell will get a little thicker. And the cells are not died in this moment, only the capacity goes charging for charging a little down, but never you can crash your plane with swollen cells, only the flight time are always a little shorter, and a explosion you can not have with our cells, because they can swollen until they are complete round..
kind regards / mit
Emmerich Deutsch"
They have not offered to replace the cells, they simply tell me that its ok to fly with cells that swollen. Lol. I refuse to do that.
"Hello David,
the swollen cells come not from the cells alone,
normal the cells are thick when the voltage goes down in the cells under 2,6 volts and always when you charge it the cell will get a little thicker. And the cells are not died in this moment, only the capacity goes charging for charging a little down, but never you can crash your plane with swollen cells, only the flight time are always a little shorter, and a explosion you can not have with our cells, because they can swollen until they are complete round..
kind regards / mit
Emmerich Deutsch"
10-05-2009, 04:52 PM
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RE: Powerbox Battery cell issues
I have tested swollen cells of late production. They work fine, and have capacity up to 95%
Then I punctured them to relieve the pressure. They still were fine, even when charged under constant supervision.
Then I slit them open and exposed them completely to the outside air/moisture. Still no fire?
Then I buried them in moist earth. Nothing happened. This was about 6 months ago, and I almost forgot where I buried them.
It seems that modern cells can stand much of the abuse that we do to them.
All batteries nowadays are made in China. All European producers either shifted location, or went broke. China can, and does make quality products. Those companies that do, will soon emerge from the copycat masses and set standards worldwide.
My non-biased two cents on the subject.
Then I punctured them to relieve the pressure. They still were fine, even when charged under constant supervision.
Then I slit them open and exposed them completely to the outside air/moisture. Still no fire?
Then I buried them in moist earth. Nothing happened. This was about 6 months ago, and I almost forgot where I buried them.
It seems that modern cells can stand much of the abuse that we do to them.
All batteries nowadays are made in China. All European producers either shifted location, or went broke. China can, and does make quality products. Those companies that do, will soon emerge from the copycat masses and set standards worldwide.
My non-biased two cents on the subject.
