carddfann

Yep, I know its a CL engine at Tower. The guy who had the original message has a CL akromaster. I agree, I think Fox is hurting themselves to keep showing the suggested retail price. For one thing, almost no one carries Fox engines in their stores anymore for anyone to be concerned with the retail price. They are pretty much down to selling to individuals who specifically want one and go to their website or call them to order and they end up with the factory direct discount price anyway. Therefore, continuing to show retail makes absolutely no sense. Another concern is how incomplete their website is. They list a lot of products (some are Fox and some are not) and they only give a few words of description without any pictures to know what it looks like. They are not taking full advantage of their website and thats a shame. Even their engines need more description. I has helped some that they posted new pics of their updated CL engines, but they still have the same old rather black and white pics of their RC engines that are too small for anyone to see and they don't get any bigger when you click on larger view. They also have come out with some new stuff like a ceramic 46 to replace their 46 ABC. However, its no where to be found on their website. They can't afford to have word of mouth if they expect to stay in business, especially with a shrinking customer base for many reasons. They really, really need a sales and marketing plan and leadership to be more competitive and help their sales. I only found out about their 46 ceramic when I recently ordered a 25 RC and it came with a new catalog. But, their catalog description had errors because they didn't take the time to proof read. It said 46 ceramic, but the description still said ABC! Go figure.

fujiman

My Feedback: (133)

fox eng. have become kind of a side line for fox. if you look at their web site. it is a manufacturing firm of other products not just model engines as it appears to me. in todays market, domestic model eng. manufacturers are at a disadvantage price wise. i'm afraid we are losing ALL our products to the chinese and asian countries fox just mite go the way of the dowdow bird. rjl maybe too!!!!!!! just my 2 cents worth. BUT i do wish them well they make great stuff!!!!!!!!!!!

carddfann

Engines have been a side line for them since I got started back in the late 70's. However, engines are much more of a side than ever before. Glow plug competition has also increased which bites into their share. If you don't mind adding a bit more castor to the fuel, they make a good engine and stand 100% behind their product if you need anything. Try that with the imports. MECOA (RJL) is also very good with good service. I've never had any real problems with either company's engines or glow plugs. The K&B 48 is a stump puller and I like their 61 Twister. I noticed some import company (Thundertiger maybe - I forget), has started using a one piece twist on head (copying K&B!). I saw it in a recent model magazine while at the grocery store. I did order a Fox 15 a couple of years ago and noticed a very tiny hair crack in one spot on the crankcase. It was too small to effect running so it passed their QC test run, but it shouldn't have been there. I sent it back to Fox and they sent me another fast. Its been a great little engine and really hauls ***** with my Birdy 10 pattern plane. Some people say they need castor due to poor machining and fit. Humbug, they just believe in a good, tight fit as their design philosophy. With a proper break in, they will last a very long time.

turbo.gst

My Feedback: (8)

My original exposure to Fox was not that good. After I learned how to run engines I tried Fox again, armed with some knowledge and experience. I found that I could run a Fox OK, but I wasn't a big fan. Later, I started to play with various types of oil and oil content. It was then that I found that 20% oil especially Castor completely changed the way the engine ran. I have discussed with a few others and they claim that 20% synthetics have similiar results. I haven't tried that, but I am a big fan when you follow Dukes original spec for 20% Castor based fuel. It took me a few years, but I finally followed the directions! I really like the engines now. I have noticed that the service offered by them is slipping a little. I now have 15 Fox engines and look forward to a couple more.

turbo

fujiman

My Feedback: (133)

turbo, i agree 100% with you. fox and rjl/meccoa have super customer service. fox helped me with some parts for an old fox hawk .60 they bent over backwards to help me out. thunder tiger makes those engines you spoke of, i believe in .10, .15, and .25 sizes. i also have 2 of the k&b scream'n .48 r/c engines. got them back when before meccoa bought k&b. scream'n ain't the word for it , man they are real runners!!!!! the tight fit on fox engs. made them unpopular with the I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!! generation. it takes care and time to break in an eng., any engine for that matter.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Fox afficianados, I pulled my Fox .50 off a RCM 40 today to see how it is holding up to several years of running as a Diesel. Charles Thacker at Fox built this .50 me and one for AMB out of spare parts a few years ago. Saddly they don't have enough to assemble any more .50 engines.
Fox .50 ringed
Plug===Fox IdleBar
Fuel===WildCat 5% with 18% 80/20 syn/castor blend
Prop===Bolly 10.5x6
Muffler MVVS 3245 Quiet
RPM one click rich from peak===12,950, 13,025 was doable but wandered up and down, 12,950 was rock steady
Die Hard Fox fans will probaqbly castigate me for the choice of fuel, but that's all the 5% I have at the moment.
Anyway, I'm satisfied that the engine is in great shape.

fujiman

My Feedback: (133)

diesel fuel rocks!!!!!!!! nothing wrong with it.

Texastbird

Just to report to the Fox fans that I maidened my Goldberg Anniversary cub last week with a Fox 45. This is a great little engine and it gets better with every flight. The instruction sheet says 1991 on it so I guess that is about when it was built. A fellow wanted to buy the airplane after he saw it fly, but I told him the engine wasn't for sale...

earlwb

I am still flying a Tower Hobbies Starfire low wing I bought back in1991 sometime. I did manage to kill a Fox engine in 1992 on it by usinga tuned pipe. A piece of aluminum came off the big end of the rod andbounced around inside the engine, shot peening everything. The second45 i ran used the tuned pipe as well, but I ran little larger pitchprop to drop the RPMs down a little.
i was getting 16,000 to 17,000 RPMs on the ground with the tuned pipe. I did stop using the tuned pipe on the engine a while back as the planeis now used to test new radio control systems and receivers to makesure they are OK.
I have to run a 10x8 prop on it as a larger prop won't clear the shortlanding gear. That poor Fox 45 engine has been abused since 1992 and isstill running great.

fujiman

My Feedback: (133)

they're like a timex watch "they take a lick'n and keep on tick'n." they'll take a whipp'n like a rented mule!!!!!!!!!!![>:]

carddfann

I have 2 Fox 45's and they run great. They have the EZ carb that some people don't like and prefer the 2 needle version instead. However, I've never had any problems with them and found them to be pretty much set and forget unless there's a big change in the weather. Only then, I might have to adjust the screws a couple of clicks. I have one in a Sig 4-Star 40 and it really pulls it with authority through any trick I want to do. I can even get my 4-Star to hang by the prop for a while, but its not really made for 3D so it can't stay hanging for too long without becoming unstable (or maybe its me). Anyway, it goes great with a 4-Star and makes a very fun sport plane. The other 45 was in a severe crash a couple of years ago. It was in an ARF ugly stick type plane and it plowed nose first into the dirt at full speed from about 100 feet up. I'm not sure what happened. Maybe it was interference. The crash happened so fast I hardly knew what happened and didn't have time to think about throttling back. Needless to say, the plane was a pile of toothpicks in the field. I went over to recover my radio and pick up the pieces when I saw my 45 burried in a crater. The back plate was about 2" below ground. I thought the engine was dead, but pulled it out anyway. After knocking off the dirt, I was shocked to find that the only damage was the broken muffler and a small bite was taken out of one side of the exhaust port where the muffler screw was. I was careful not to turn the engine over before cleaning. I was thinking that surely the crank is bent, con rod broke of something from that hellish crash. After taking it apart for cleaning and reassembling it, nothing else was damaged. The carb was fine and not even the needle valve was bent! I fixed the exhaust port with some JB Weld and a 1/8" longer muffler screw. After getting my new muffler, it fired right up! Amazing! Its now in a Hanger 9 super stick and still runs great. They are a very reliable, easy to start, powerful, and extremely rugged engine. I wouldn't trade them for any other engine.

fujiman

My Feedback: (133)

carddfan, watch for eng. developing a whining noise. very often the front brg. gets damaged from that frontal impact. the brg. balls put small dents in race a the time of impact and then the eng. will develop that noise.

carddfann

Thanks for the heads up. I've had over 2 dozen flights on the super stick since that last plane crashed without any problems so far. Hopefully, if bearings are damaged they would have shown up by now. If I start hearing a whining noise in the future, I'll know what it is.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Card, what many people fail ro realize is that the Fox EZ Carb is a metered carb with an airbleed trim to allow for different props, fuel etc.

fourstar2

I have a question about the fox 45, maybe you can help me.My friend just recently gave me a fox 45 couldn't tell you the year exacly but it is the older style with the hump on the side of the cylinder and the butterfly in the throat of the carb. It also has the really short adjustment screw on the needle valve. Anyway my friend said when he got the engine it had never been run and he ran a few tanks through it. Well i also have a four star 40 that i put the engine in the other day when i took it to the club i messed with it in the pitts for a while and took off only for it to sputter around for a little bit and die. so i landed dead stick and decided to get some info on how to propely break it in. The engine seems to have some pretty good potential but i have never messed with this type of carb before, seems wierd to me. The last time i saw a fox engine my best friends father bought an old 45 used from a friend and he seemed to be very excited that he had obtained one. I've heard there legendary, but not alot of people at my club seem to know much about my engine. I just need to know what fuel and plug is best for it and where to set the needles for proper break in. If you or anybody could help me on this subject that would be awesome. Hope to hear back from you.

carddfann

For fuel, need to use with about 20% castor by volume. Fox engines are made with a tight fit and need break in. That was Duke's philosophy for long life. I believe in bench breaking for a while before risking an airplane. I would bench run it rich for at least an hour before trying to fly it. When I do break in, I alternate between full throttle and about 1/4 throttle every couple of minutes. I don't worry about idle at first since it won't idle very good until after its well broke in and performance will keep getting better as it runs. Never run any engine too lean (Fox or not) unless you like to buy engines. Also, make sure your fuel tank isn't too low compared to the carb nipple. A lot of ARF's seem to have this problem when they put the tank hole in the firewall. They probably base it on some commonly used engine like OS or Supertiger or sometimes they just stick the hole anywhere. The closer you can get the fuel line to the carb, the better. I once had an ARF where the fuel line was 1" below the carb nipple and had all kinds of running problems from poor idle to leaning out (and sometimes quitting) during high G maneuvers. I didn't notice this problem at first until I started checking why it was running badly. I couldn't raise the tank so I lowered the engine mount about 1/2" and the problems all went away.

The fuel I use is Wildcat 10% (only thing our local shop carries) which is a synthetic/castor mix. When I get a new gallon, I guess and add a table spoon of castor (available at most hobby shops) just to be safe and never had any problems. I know some people don't bother with more castor and just use the castor/synthetic mix as it comes, but I don't feel comfortable doing that personally. If you try that, make sure it doesn't run lean in the air as engines will lean out when they are airborn. Fox sells fuel with 20% castor, but you pay out the nose in shipping.

For a plug, it likes the long plug with idle bar. For carb adjustments, its been about 25 years since I had one of those so I don't remember how to adjust it. I had it in a scat cat 500 and it was fun. I do have some historical information from an old website that was for Fox users, which includes an instruction sheet that was probably for that engine. You can also call Fox and I'm sure they can help. Here's the instruction sheet that gives carb instructions.

fourstar2

Thanks for all the help i"ll definately try these methods. I"ll let you know how it goes.

earlwb

Fourstar,
    I normally run 5% nitro fuel 20% oil with some castor oil in it. Ifthe engine is a lapped piston engine (no piston rings) then I use 20%castor oil or even up to 27% castor oil. Fox engines tend to be highcompression as Mr Fox didn't like nitro in the fuel that much. So highnitro percentages in the fuel may or may not work for you.

The short needle on the right side is the idle mixture control, youadjust the idle mixture so that the engine doesn't load up and floodout at idle or run too lean at idle. The idle mixture needle doesaffect the main jet needle valve. So you adjust idle mixture first andthen the main jet  afterwards.
Normally the idle mixture only needs to be adjusted once, and younormally never need to mess with it again. But as the engine gets brokein good you may have to tweak it a little from time to time. Buteventually you'll wind up with a engine that idles really well.

Since it sounds like you might have the carb with the fuel inletfitting cast into the the carb body.  Then if you have problems withthe fuel line slipping off, you use a short length of neoprine blackrubber fuel tubing. That stops the fuel line from slipping off thefitting.

You will need to leave the engine on the rich side for a while whenrunning, as the piston fit is tight and it takes a while to break itin. patience is the virtue here. But if break in is done good, theengine will last seemingly forever. I was just running a plane with aFox 45 on it that I bought back circa 1990. The engine still runs great.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I used to run 10x6 props on my Fox .45. Duke told me that the engine was designed to scream. Let's it spin!


Ed Cregger

Sport_Pilot

Then why did he make Missile Mist? He did raise compression on most of the sport engines, but lowered it on many competition engines.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I had a lengthy telephone discussion with Duke Fox over his preference for high nitro fuel (Missile Mist with 25% nitro). I told him that I would rather invest my money in a more expensive engine that could happily burn no or low nitro fuel than an inexpensive engine that required expensive fuel to run properly. At least I could get some of my money back when I sold the expensive engine. No one pays money for burned model fuel. After that he brought out a no/low nitro head for the original Eagle .60 and began changing his engines over to burn no/low nitro fuel. I like to think that I had something to do with the decision. Duke was always thinking of benefitting his customers and would listen to an argument without prejudice, even if it ran completely counter to his own philosophy.


Ed Cregger

earlwb

NM2K, yeah those engines do run good at high rpms, but when i was running it, somewhere faster than 18,000 rpms, parts of the rod came off eventually. So I decided to not let the next engine rev up quite that much after that. Besides the replacement engine really loves those 10x8 props on the airplane.

You know I have a old Eagle 60 NIB with both heads that I got from Fox years ago.
But I have some other Fox Eagle 60's and they worked just fine with 5% Nitro fuel.
So I never tried the high compression head out. maybe one of these days.

Well as for lower compression competition engines, yes that is true, as the people using them are running high nitro percentages in their fuels. So they expect it. besides nitro sort of advances the ignition timing, so you get some extra rpms out of it too.

Sport_Pilot

I think he should have instead made them to run on 10% nitro instead of 0%. It would have made them more user friendly, which is part of the problem with those who hate them.

carddfann

Just FYI. Since having been out of the hobby for 18 years and getting back in a couple of years ago, I bought all my Foxes brand new from Fox. I doubt that the head buttons have changed since the 80's. I have a 15RC, 35, 25RC, and (2) 45RC's. I use 10% in all and they all run great. For the 35, I have to add quite a bit more castor. But anyway, 10% works fine for me. I guess I use 10% since that's what I've always used since I first started the hobby back in '78 or '79. So I don't know. I just thought I would mention this for what its worth.

Scirocco14

Hi everyone. I'm glad I found this forum! Thirty years ago when I was a teenager, I used to fly C/L planes with my dad and flew several Fox engined planes (.15 and .35 stunt). Now I'm getting back into planes but this time R/C. Yesterday my Dad gave me a Fox 25RC engine, with muffler, he has had in his shop for years; it looks like it's never been run. However, I'm not familiar with this particular engine and it didn't come with any instructions. So I have some questions:

1. What does the flap in the exhaust do? How much should it move when the throttle is moved, i.e. should it be wide open (horizontal) at full throttle?
2. If I install the muffler, is the flap needed? Should I remove it?
3. What sort of baseline carb settings should I start with?
4. What plane would you recommend for this size engine? I'm just starting out and have two .40 trainers (Hobbico Nexstar w. OS 46AXi and OK Models 45H w/ OS 40 FP). I was thinking about a SIGSeniorita but other suggestions are welcomed!

See the attached pictures for reference.

Thanks!!!

Mark
Asheville, NC