coast219

Hi. I'm currently building a Trumpeter Kilo with David Merriman's 2' SD. I was thinking of adding an APC later if I have trouble with the sub. I was able to get some schematics on how to build a DIY pitch controller but electronics are beyond my fields and the guy I talked to here wasn't sure if he can make it so I decided I'll just have to get the ones commercially available. Which brands on the market would you recommend? It has to be small to fit within the 2" SD and since I'm working on a tight budget would I prefer the least expensive ones. Thank you.

petn7

"ADF" made by Kevin McCleod and the "UPC-1" sold by Mikes Subworks

coast219

Which one do you recommend?

petn7

I have both, but haven't gotten a chance to test either. The UPC-1 is significantly smaller than the ADF, but the ADF has a built in failsafe if you need one of those.

I haven't heard any bad things about either, by the way. Also, check these forums out:

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpB...ic.php5?t=9114

subsinker

My Feedback: (61)

Hi,

I can throw my hat into the ring here. I use Engels pitch controllers exclusively. They work and are rock solid. Very easy to set up as well.

Here is a link to them. You can order directly from Engel and they ship them out quickly. http://www.engel-modellbau.de/catalo...02b4b1cd0dedc8

Pete

coast219

Thanks for the info. Did some price checkings and this is what I got;

The UPC-1 is $69.95 (about Php 3,370.50 Philippine Pesos). There's an additional $8.00 order processing plus international shipping (approximately $25.00 International priority Mail or $6.77 First Class International if available). Total cost would be around $ 102.95 (Php 4,941.60)

For the ADF, cost is around $79 (Php 3,806.50). No shipping cost included yet.

The Engel LR2 mini pitch controller is the most expensive so far at EUR 79 (Php 5,445)

Also inquired at Arkmodels, an Asian distributor of RC submarines. Their pitch controller is priced at 800 RMB (China Yuan) about Php 5,642 (no shipping cost included)

Tony Fitzpatrick

But how many do you need?
1,10,100?

coast219

Just one.

George Jure

Hello Coast219

Is there any way you could send me the plans you have for the DIY pitch controller ?

I would like to see them and possibly try to build one. Please let me know.

Thanks, George

yanceynmp

Try Mike shubars new APC 1 from what I have heard it is simple and easy to set up.

Myles

Taxidriver

I have quite a few I have accumulated over the years including the APC3, APC4, PC6A, Engel SPC Pro, Engel LR2, the first Engel one and most recently the UPC-1. There are a couple more like the first ever one out of England that you had to fill with heavy oil. The best by far is and was the the Engel SPC Pro 1 which I think was made in the US. this was like US$100 at the time. There now seems to be a new version the SPC pro2 http://global.ebay.com/search?Query=...94311&Region=0
There are plenty of features and customization you dont find in any other controller, like the pitch controller working correctly when you go in reveres and no need to use a buble level to mount the controller. Just mount it anyway you want and press a button to zero it. Easy to customize to any sub you have and also the best performing one and at any speed you sub is running.

Skip Asay

"no need to use a buble level to mount the controller."

I'll never understand the misconception that so many people seem to have. When it comes to correct installation of ANY kind of automatic leveler, a bubble level IS MANDATORY. Use of this level is required not for actual installation of the leveler but to MAKE SURE THE BOAT ITSELF IS LEVEL when the button is pushed. When you push that button, that is what the leveler sees as ZERO angle and will attempt to maintain that angle when the boat is underway. So if your boat is sitting on the table with a 2 or 3 degree down angle (or up angle) when you push the button, that's what the leveler will try to maintain. And that can cause all kinds of problems while underway.

Methinks that whoever started the mistaken belief that a "bubble level is not needed" did not really know just how these things work.

Skip Asay

BillHarris

I have no interest in doing a DIY Pitch Controller, but out of sheer curiosity I'd love tp know how one works. My first guess is some sort of damped pendulum with feedback control, but nowadays I suspect that the design is more solid-state, derived from RC 'copter gyros.

Bill

Taxidriver

Me thinks you didn't read what I said. ''no need to use a buble level to mount the controller.''. You do however need one to zero it when the boat is built up and sitting level. So now you only have to ensure your built up boat is sitting level, which is far easier than setting a tiny PCB level in the bowels of your sub and then ensuring your WTC or dry hull is level (which is what you have to do with the SubTech APC4 and Engel LR2 - because there is NO button to set the zero level). And with the SPC pro2 it appears you can set it level from outside your built up sub as well as access all the fuctions from a remote switch or magnet. No need to open your boat up!

Taxidriver

Modern ones use a inclinometer. No Gyro here. http://www.analog.com/en/other-produ...s/product.html

sunworksco

Are these the same devices that are used in laser levels?
If my wtc is parallel to my keel,can I just level out my wtc ,sitting on the bench,and set the pitch controller?

Taxidriver

Yes, thats fine you'll need to make sure your pitch controller is level in the WTC if yours is one without a button.

Skip Asay

"You do however need one to zero it when the boat is built up and sitting level. So now you only have to ensure your built up boat is sitting level, which is far easier than setting a tiny PCB level in the bowels of your sub and then ensuring your WTC or dry hull is level (which is what you have to do with the SubTech APC4 and Engel LR2 - because there is NO button to set the zero level)."

You only need a level to assure your boat is level. There is no further need for "a tiny PCB level in the bowels of your sub". The difference is that while APC-4 and etc. don't have push button capability, that's what the adjusting pot is for. First, you make sure the boat itself is level. Then you install your leveler, taking some care that it's at least close to being level (required regardless of whose leveler you're installing). Then you adjust the pot accordingly. The only difference is that with one, you push a button. With the other, you adjust a pot. Personally, I prefer adjusting a pot since not all boats require that the stern planes be exactly parallel with the keel.

Skip Asay

Taxidriver

Agreed, though something like the Engel LR2 does not have a pot to set neutral, only a pot for sensitivity.

BillHarris

Ah. "Arching eyebrows and muttering 'fascinating" "...

Marvels of modern electronics:

http://www.analog.com/en/content/rar...sue48/fca.html

Bill

Tony Fitzpatrick

The spc-pro1 was made in Europe .... never $100
They were introduced at $85 and the Ebay trail shows the US Engel distributor auctioning a dozen in 2003 for $50 - $72

ralphe

DO NOT BUY from Arkmodels.Feng will take your money and run. I bought a submarine from him 14 months ago and It is still incomplete. He makes empty promisses and does not help you. Iam still waiting for instructions. All I have are parts in a bag and a cracked WTC.

caswell

If you can wait a few days, I am introducing a new ADF controller and fail-safe. ADF2. It is revolutionary! Look out for the updated web page at http://www.caswellplating.com/models/pitch.html

Tony Fitzpatrick

Just a heads up there COAST219.
There was a 12 March post with a new model on offer there but it disappeared or was removed
I can't remember the price or who it was from.
It was a rave review: paradigm etc.

greenman407

My Feedback: (1)

If I may add my two cents I have used the apc-4 and the one that was sold by Atomic subs before he left us. Also I have used the adf from Caswells. Ive had trouble with all except the adf from Caswells. It just keeps on goinig and going and going...........................