Deception
10-11-2009, 02:15 PM
#28
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RE: Deception
ORIGINAL: doxilia
I don't think it makes much sense to make a full composite fuse but maybe I'm mistaken. If I am, I would think that it probably ought to be re-designed on the inside to accomodate a RE engine setup.
I don't think it makes much sense to make a full composite fuse but maybe I'm mistaken. If I am, I would think that it probably ought to be re-designed on the inside to accomodate a RE engine setup.
A two part composit fuse (fuse & canopy) or a copy of the one (wood fuse glass canopy) in the pics would be cool!
Pics;
10-11-2009, 05:44 PM
#29
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RE: Deception
Bryan,
RE is the way I remember the Deception from my early years. In those days the 61 VF & RF were the engines to be had. I think the only issue with the RE setup on the standard design is that the canopy, unlike the larger ones on the XLT and Escape, is a little small for LS engines. On the other hand, a SS RE Rossi with a shorter pipe, much like in Jim's article build, might be just fine under the hood.
People who've built Deceptions with RE configurations have mentioned the issue with pipe heating due to the snug fit. Still, I'm going to build mine like that.
David.
RE is the way I remember the Deception from my early years. In those days the 61 VF & RF were the engines to be had. I think the only issue with the RE setup on the standard design is that the canopy, unlike the larger ones on the XLT and Escape, is a little small for LS engines. On the other hand, a SS RE Rossi with a shorter pipe, much like in Jim's article build, might be just fine under the hood.
People who've built Deceptions with RE configurations have mentioned the issue with pipe heating due to the snug fit. Still, I'm going to build mine like that.
David.
10-12-2009, 12:36 AM
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RE: Deception
David,
I was recently talking to a local epoxy manufacturer who suggested using microballoons as a means of providing heat protection in epoxy or polyester layups. You could make an epoxy bottom for the canopy and a canopy with micro-balloons as an additive for thermal protection. He also sells an epoxy resin that takes the heat better.
Bryan
I was recently talking to a local epoxy manufacturer who suggested using microballoons as a means of providing heat protection in epoxy or polyester layups. You could make an epoxy bottom for the canopy and a canopy with micro-balloons as an additive for thermal protection. He also sells an epoxy resin that takes the heat better.
Bryan
10-12-2009, 09:11 AM
#31
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RE: Deception
Scott,
I'm building a Deception from plans for next year's SPA season. I would be interested in doing another from a fiberglass fuselage/foam wing kit.
Jeff
I'm building a Deception from plans for next year's SPA season. I would be interested in doing another from a fiberglass fuselage/foam wing kit.
Jeff
10-12-2009, 10:57 AM
#32
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RE: Deception
Jeff. There should be a explosion of deceptions on the trail next year if the orders come thru that I sent quotes ot for.. plus the 3 electric I'm working on right now... There will be someone crossing over to the dark side to electric.....
I will have to sit and see about a glass version, also of work for a few....
scott
I will have to sit and see about a glass version, also of work for a few....
scott
10-12-2009, 08:29 PM
#33
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RE: Deception
Bryan
thanks for the tip. I was thinking of something along those lines as the pipe over plain paint just won't do.
Scott, how, if anyway, are you changing the electric versions? What motor/ESC is planned for the 3 models you're building?
TIA, David.
thanks for the tip. I was thinking of something along those lines as the pipe over plain paint just won't do.
Scott, how, if anyway, are you changing the electric versions? What motor/ESC is planned for the 3 models you're building?
TIA, David.
10-13-2009, 10:30 AM
#34
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RE: Deception
Dave,
Electric are going to be a stock plane except the top canopy area will remove to get to the battery...... we are working on the other questions asked.. max of a 6s pack and at the 1400 watts as required.
I might do another fuse during the others while the jig is up and us some harder wood and us it as a plug....
I also have the Peppermint pattie 40 now and can't wait to get one of those built...
scott
Electric are going to be a stock plane except the top canopy area will remove to get to the battery...... we are working on the other questions asked.. max of a 6s pack and at the 1400 watts as required.
I might do another fuse during the others while the jig is up and us some harder wood and us it as a plug....
I also have the Peppermint pattie 40 now and can't wait to get one of those built...
scott
10-14-2009, 12:42 AM
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RE: Deception
Scott,
good to hear. I'd be interested in seeing your electric fuse setup. I imagine a large portion of the fuse top including the canopy will be removable given the size of the canopy itself. Unless you plan to cut the canopy to allow only the tank area to be removed as a hatch along with the front section of the canopy?
The former could make for an interesting modification to the design by building a closed fuse bottom, plug-in wings and a radio install from the top.
Keep us posted on those electric mods.
David.
good to hear. I'd be interested in seeing your electric fuse setup. I imagine a large portion of the fuse top including the canopy will be removable given the size of the canopy itself. Unless you plan to cut the canopy to allow only the tank area to be removed as a hatch along with the front section of the canopy?
The former could make for an interesting modification to the design by building a closed fuse bottom, plug-in wings and a radio install from the top.
Keep us posted on those electric mods.
David.
10-14-2009, 12:53 AM
#36
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RE: Deception
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
I like the idea of a RE Deception. I saw a RE kit for sale on ebay last year. Save the listing pics cause I always thought that the Deception was a side exhaust.
I like the idea of a RE Deception. I saw a RE kit for sale on ebay last year. Save the listing pics cause I always thought that the Deception was a side exhaust.
just to mention, there isn't such a thing as a "RE kit". As shown in your pics, the Bridi Deception box photos show a build with a RE engine. Jim's original construction article in 1978 showed a short stroke SE Rossi and pipe. The only difference between the two is the modified FW on the RE setup to accomodate the fuse top header. The canopy on the RE plane is obviously also cut to allow the header in and pipe exhaust out. The configuration is very similar to that of the XLT, Escape and Arrow.
David.
11-03-2009, 08:35 AM
#39
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RE: Deception
Jim,
always nice to have the designer himself back on the thread!
Thanks for the beautiful photos. They look like they date back to early 80's and shot with Ektachrome or similar and scanned in to Acrobat. While I'm grateful for any images of any Deceptions ever built - they're all beautiful to me - those particular slides should be preserved in the best possible quality. Just to note, slides produce absolutely stunning scans into high resolution digital files. They can be scanned directly into Photoshop at the highest resolution that the scanner is able to rasterize the slide at much in the same way that Acrobat can do it except it would produce a digital photo file (JPG) rather than a PDF file.
If you and/or your son were interested in doing that, I'm sure those images would deserve to be at the AMA as well as... here of course
Expect to see several Deception on these pages next year!
David.
always nice to have the designer himself back on the thread!
Thanks for the beautiful photos. They look like they date back to early 80's and shot with Ektachrome or similar and scanned in to Acrobat. While I'm grateful for any images of any Deceptions ever built - they're all beautiful to me - those particular slides should be preserved in the best possible quality. Just to note, slides produce absolutely stunning scans into high resolution digital files. They can be scanned directly into Photoshop at the highest resolution that the scanner is able to rasterize the slide at much in the same way that Acrobat can do it except it would produce a digital photo file (JPG) rather than a PDF file.
If you and/or your son were interested in doing that, I'm sure those images would deserve to be at the AMA as well as... here of course
Expect to see several Deception on these pages next year!
David.
11-03-2009, 11:23 AM
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RE: Deception
Jim, David,
I am planning a Deception build for next season, and coincidentally, I have a website where I offer slide scanning services and photo restoration. I would be happy to scan these historic photos of Jim's Deception gratis. I have a professional Nikon slide scanner capable of 4000dpi scans. Many of you have seen some of my old pattern planes which were slide scans and image cleanups. Jim, let me know by PM or direct email if you'd like to have me scan your images for you.
ChiefK
I am planning a Deception build for next season, and coincidentally, I have a website where I offer slide scanning services and photo restoration. I would be happy to scan these historic photos of Jim's Deception gratis. I have a professional Nikon slide scanner capable of 4000dpi scans. Many of you have seen some of my old pattern planes which were slide scans and image cleanups. Jim, let me know by PM or direct email if you'd like to have me scan your images for you.
ChiefK
ORIGINAL: doxilia
Jim,
always nice to have the designer himself back on the thread!
Thanks for the beautiful photos. They look like they date back to early 80's and shot with Ektachrome or similar and scanned in to Acrobat. While I'm grateful for any images of any Deceptions ever built - they're all beautiful to me - those particular slides should be preserved in the best possible quality. Just to note, slides produce absolutely stunning scans into high resolution digital files. They can be scanned directly into Photoshop at the highest resolution that the scanner is able to rasterize the slide at much in the same way that Acrobat can do it except it would produce a digital photo file (JPG) rather than a PDF file.
If you and/or your son were interested in doing that, I'm sure those images would deserve to be at the AMA as well as... here of course
Expect to see several Deception on these pages next year!
David.
Jim,
always nice to have the designer himself back on the thread!
Thanks for the beautiful photos. They look like they date back to early 80's and shot with Ektachrome or similar and scanned in to Acrobat. While I'm grateful for any images of any Deceptions ever built - they're all beautiful to me - those particular slides should be preserved in the best possible quality. Just to note, slides produce absolutely stunning scans into high resolution digital files. They can be scanned directly into Photoshop at the highest resolution that the scanner is able to rasterize the slide at much in the same way that Acrobat can do it except it would produce a digital photo file (JPG) rather than a PDF file.
If you and/or your son were interested in doing that, I'm sure those images would deserve to be at the AMA as well as... here of course
Expect to see several Deception on these pages next year!
David.
11-03-2009, 01:00 PM
#41
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RE: Deception
ORIGINAL: doxilia
Bryan,
RE is the way I remember the Deception from my early years. In those days the 61 VF & RF were the engines to be had. I think the only issue with the RE setup on the standard design is that the canopy, unlike the larger ones on the XLT and Escape, is a little small for LS engines. On the other hand, a SS RE Rossi with a shorter pipe, much like in Jim's article build, might be just fine under the hood.
People who've built Deceptions with RE configurations have mentioned the issue with pipe heating due to the snug fit. Still, I'm going to build mine like that.
David.
Bryan,
RE is the way I remember the Deception from my early years. In those days the 61 VF & RF were the engines to be had. I think the only issue with the RE setup on the standard design is that the canopy, unlike the larger ones on the XLT and Escape, is a little small for LS engines. On the other hand, a SS RE Rossi with a shorter pipe, much like in Jim's article build, might be just fine under the hood.
People who've built Deceptions with RE configurations have mentioned the issue with pipe heating due to the snug fit. Still, I'm going to build mine like that.
David.
There were no long stroke engines when the Deception was released as a Bridi kit, IIRC. I bought my Bridi Deception in 1979 with the intention of running it with an OS .61VF rear exhaust engine, but I was disappointed in the power of both the VF and the FSR when compared to a Rossi or OPS .60 of that era. I ended up flying my Deception with the FSR (side exhaust) and Rhom Air gear. My model was grossly underpowered as far as I was concerned. Yes, I stretched the pipe out so that it was resonating best during the climb, but it wasn't enough of a boost. I thought mine was heavy until I read what some of them weighed from other members here on RCU.
I liked models that were more "in line" with the wing and horizontal stab, plus a bit of sub dorsal fin with movable rudder. Had I to do it again, I would have designed my own pattern ships and campaigned them.
Ed Cregger
11-03-2009, 07:57 PM
#42
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RE: Deception
Hi Ed,
I know you've mentioned your disappointment with OS side a rear exhaust engines of that era. They were not as potent as Rossi or YS. I flew several Deceptions with both the OS61VF and the YS FR. The YS definitely had a significant performance advantage. The Deception was very 'draggy' compared to other designs of the era, but a great flying airplane especially if built under 9 lbs.
You can still design, build and fly your own pattern ship - it can be very rewarding even if you don't get to compete with it. Personally, I can't see the BPA having a problem with anybody competing with their own design.
-Will B.
I know you've mentioned your disappointment with OS side a rear exhaust engines of that era. They were not as potent as Rossi or YS. I flew several Deceptions with both the OS61VF and the YS FR. The YS definitely had a significant performance advantage. The Deception was very 'draggy' compared to other designs of the era, but a great flying airplane especially if built under 9 lbs.
You can still design, build and fly your own pattern ship - it can be very rewarding even if you don't get to compete with it. Personally, I can't see the BPA having a problem with anybody competing with their own design.
-Will B.
11-04-2009, 12:13 PM
#43
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RE: Deception
Deception...
Mr. Kimbro,
Do you remember the flight characteristics between your side exhaust powered Deception and the buried pipe RE version?
I am at a point in the construction of my model that I could change to the enclosed pipe version. I have a NIB Rossi .61 with mixture control carb/header/pipe from our mutual friend Rusty Fried (Rusty has a few more of these combos). I also have a replacement canopy from the Bridi Escape ($25 from Blue Bird in Nebraska) which would be perfect to replace your original canopy design.
Any plans on attending Rusty's contest in February?
Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Mr. Kimbro,
Do you remember the flight characteristics between your side exhaust powered Deception and the buried pipe RE version?
I am at a point in the construction of my model that I could change to the enclosed pipe version. I have a NIB Rossi .61 with mixture control carb/header/pipe from our mutual friend Rusty Fried (Rusty has a few more of these combos). I also have a replacement canopy from the Bridi Escape ($25 from Blue Bird in Nebraska) which would be perfect to replace your original canopy design.
Any plans on attending Rusty's contest in February?
Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
11-04-2009, 12:42 PM
#44
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RE: Deception
In order to make these more accessible and available for all to enjoy, I did a very quick job on the scans Jim posted as PDF files. Here are the pictures of his White RE Rossi Deception. Date pictures taken?
Note how Jim concealed the header beneath the fuse top to enter the canopy from inside the fuse rather than exit over top. Were there any heat or space issues with this setup considering the area available for the header, tank and nose gear?
Looking forward to progress shots on yours Rusty!
David.
Note how Jim concealed the header beneath the fuse top to enter the canopy from inside the fuse rather than exit over top. Were there any heat or space issues with this setup considering the area available for the header, tank and nose gear?
Looking forward to progress shots on yours Rusty!
David.
11-04-2009, 01:33 PM
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RE: Deception
ORIGINAL: NM2K
There were no long stroke engines when the Deception was released as a Bridi kit, IIRC. I bought my Bridi Deception in 1979 with the intention of running it with an OS .61VF rear exhaust engine, but I was disappointed in the power of both the VF and the FSR when compared to a Rossi or OPS .60 of that era. I ended up flying my Deception with the FSR (side exhaust) and Rhom Air gear.
Ed Cregger
There were no long stroke engines when the Deception was released as a Bridi kit, IIRC. I bought my Bridi Deception in 1979 with the intention of running it with an OS .61VF rear exhaust engine, but I was disappointed in the power of both the VF and the FSR when compared to a Rossi or OPS .60 of that era. I ended up flying my Deception with the FSR (side exhaust) and Rhom Air gear.
Ed Cregger
Here's why I'm asking. I acquired a 61vf with box and it had a carb manual for the 7D & 7DV. In that manual it references that you can remove the carb insert to increase the power but that it requires a pump. What do ya think? Here's the manual;
11-20-2015, 03:59 PM
#48
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You can get cores and a fiberglass canopy from CPA Scott (sorry, I can't find his web address or email at the moment). You can get the Exception kit from Don Carlson at RCAIIR which is just a fiberglass fuselage version of the Deception. A personal favorite; I built 5 of them the last was a tail dragger for turnaround pattern which was very successful (Dave Wilson, a top competitor, also did very well with a Deception in the early years of turnaround).
Good Luck.
PS I'm originally from Bolton, Ma.
Good Luck.
PS I'm originally from Bolton, Ma.
