Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Reply now to using Lion/Lipo for glow drivers....
Glow driver circuits are very simple. If you use a single cell NiMh or NiCd then it is a simple on off switch. If you want to use a higher voltage battery like a single cell lipo or 4 cell NiXX the you have to have a regulator to drop the voltage. The other option I have been thinking about is a high speed current limiter but that is too deep for a forum discussion.
So here is the problem with a higher voltage battery at 4amps. A linear regulator is going to burn/convert the voltage drop x amps as heat. So 4 Amps from a 4.0V battery delivering 1.5V is a 2.5V drop at 4 AMPs. That is 2.5 x 4 which is 10 Watts. A TO-220 can only dissapate about 1.5W without sinking. A LM317 I think can only go up to 3A. Most are 1.5A. You should look at the LM338 which can go to 5A but at 5A with a 4.0V input and a 1.5V output you are going to have to convert 2.5V x 4A = 10Watts to heat. That is going to require a massive heat sink and fan. Even worse about 75% of your battery will be used to produce heat rather than light the glow plug.
The right way to do it is with a high frequency switching regulator that can run at >80% efficency.
Proabably too expensive for TwinSync glow drivers (i.e. ~$100 per pair rather than $50 per pair)...I am working with TBM to come out with so low cost high freq switching regulators but most guys don't understand the real value of switching versus linear regulators... this should prob be a seperate thread.
Glow driver circuits are very simple. If you use a single cell NiMh or NiCd then it is a simple on off switch. If you want to use a higher voltage battery like a single cell lipo or 4 cell NiXX the you have to have a regulator to drop the voltage. The other option I have been thinking about is a high speed current limiter but that is too deep for a forum discussion.
So here is the problem with a higher voltage battery at 4amps. A linear regulator is going to burn/convert the voltage drop x amps as heat. So 4 Amps from a 4.0V battery delivering 1.5V is a 2.5V drop at 4 AMPs. That is 2.5 x 4 which is 10 Watts. A TO-220 can only dissapate about 1.5W without sinking. A LM317 I think can only go up to 3A. Most are 1.5A. You should look at the LM338 which can go to 5A but at 5A with a 4.0V input and a 1.5V output you are going to have to convert 2.5V x 4A = 10Watts to heat. That is going to require a massive heat sink and fan. Even worse about 75% of your battery will be used to produce heat rather than light the glow plug.
The right way to do it is with a high frequency switching regulator that can run at >80% efficency.
Proabably too expensive for TwinSync glow drivers (i.e. ~$100 per pair rather than $50 per pair)...I am working with TBM to come out with so low cost high freq switching regulators but most guys don't understand the real value of switching versus linear regulators... this should prob be a seperate thread.
#802
RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Thanks for the input. I was afraid that I might be running hot even with the finned heat sink that I’m using, that was why I wanted to bench test with the nacelles removed. It seems to be working for the couple of minutes the aircraft idles and I haven’t had a loss on landing, which is my greatest fear. Sounds like I need to replace the voltage regulator with a NiMh cell and just use the other LiPo for receiver backup.
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hey Bill, just as a question, how are most "other" glow drivers doing it? I've used the sullivan glow driver, the align b6t (with is a 2s lipo regulator to the receiver + glow driver+ on/off, plus battery status+glow plug status) and one unit from imax witch is just like the align one, except half the price, and regulates the rx voltage to 5.3v instead of 6.0v like the align..... If you made a twinsync 3.0 with could be powered directly from a 2s lixx, and also power the receiver etc, that would be GREAT!!!! :P
If I'm not wrong both the the align/imax use switching regulators
If I'm not wrong both the the align/imax use switching regulators
#804
RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
personaly for safety reason i will never use my RX pack to glow !! i much prefer keep them separate
but thats my choice
but thats my choice
ORIGINAL: Gutaaaooo
Hey Bill, just as a question, how are most "other" glow drivers doing it? I've used the sullivan glow driver, the align b6t (with is a 2s lipo regulator to the receiver + glow driver+ on/off, plus battery status+glow plug status) and one unit from imax witch is just like the align one, except half the price, and regulates the rx voltage to 5.3v instead of 6.0v like the align..... If you made a twinsync 3.0 with could be powered directly from a 2s lixx, and also power the receiver etc, that would be GREAT!!!! :P
If I'm not wrong both the the align/imax use switching regulators
Hey Bill, just as a question, how are most "other" glow drivers doing it? I've used the sullivan glow driver, the align b6t (with is a 2s lipo regulator to the receiver + glow driver+ on/off, plus battery status+glow plug status) and one unit from imax witch is just like the align one, except half the price, and regulates the rx voltage to 5.3v instead of 6.0v like the align..... If you made a twinsync 3.0 with could be powered directly from a 2s lixx, and also power the receiver etc, that would be GREAT!!!! :P
If I'm not wrong both the the align/imax use switching regulators
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
it could be dual input, like the flightpower, but the align/imax ones are just for starting the engine, you actually have to push a bu tom to light the glow. They are meant for helis
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
The way glow drivers work that operate off a high voltage (or how I would expect them to work) is that they pulse the glow plug on and off very rapidly. Similar to a switching regulator but a glow plug doesn't need a constant voltage like a piece of electronics. Regulators are more expensive than a simple pulsing circuit. This is similar to how a switching regulator works. It pulse charges a capacitor to the right voltage very fast. For example I am working on a turbine ECU. To drive the turbine glow plug I pulse it from the 3-cell lipo 1% of the time 10,000 times per second. I could change the glow drivers to operate on any voltage. Would probably make them $70-75 per pair rather than $50 per pair.
The advantage of a switching regulator over a linear regulator is that they can be >90% efficient compared with about Vo/Vi % effiecency for a linear regulator. They can be noisy and older designs are slow. New ones are amazing. I attached a picture of a prototype regulator I am building. It is about 1.5" square and can put out 15Amps continous with no heatsink required. Also has a safety switch (fails-on).
The advantage of a switching regulator over a linear regulator is that they can be >90% efficient compared with about Vo/Vi % effiecency for a linear regulator. They can be noisy and older designs are slow. New ones are amazing. I attached a picture of a prototype regulator I am building. It is about 1.5" square and can put out 15Amps continous with no heatsink required. Also has a safety switch (fails-on).
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hi Bill,
Is there "anything" new in v 2.4 ...?
Do we need to upgrade from v2.3 to v 2.4...?
Thanks
George
Is there "anything" new in v 2.4 ...?
Do we need to upgrade from v2.3 to v 2.4...?
Thanks
George
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hey Bill,
just started installing the twinsync on a test stand with the engines, and wanted to test the rpm of my starter with the twynsync display, however with the started spinning both engines the display keeps showing 0000? Is there anything I'm doing wrong? Both the green LED on the TwinSync main unit are somewhat on, and when the sensor goes over the magnet the seam to get brighter, I guess that this is how it's supposed to be???
Tks again bill!
just started installing the twinsync on a test stand with the engines, and wanted to test the rpm of my starter with the twynsync display, however with the started spinning both engines the display keeps showing 0000? Is there anything I'm doing wrong? Both the green LED on the TwinSync main unit are somewhat on, and when the sensor goes over the magnet the seam to get brighter, I guess that this is how it's supposed to be???
Tks again bill!
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
If the green LEDs are on a little all of the time then the protection diodes are blown. You can remove them with a pair of side cutters then it will be working again with a little less protection. There are two diodes. They are beside the rpm sensor connectors. They are the two devices made out of kind of clear/red glass with a black stripe on one end. You can remove them and then it should work.
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hey Bill, sorry to hear this. The unit is brand new, only had it on this afternon, how could this happen, maybe I conected something in the wrong way? What kind of safety do these give? If you tell me there part number maybe I can try to replace them, I'm a preatty good with soder myself.
Tks again, Carlos traina.
Edit: I cut one leg of eache diode for now, nad indeed the green leds are only on when the sensor goes over the magnet, however the rpm is still 0000 with the eletric starter turning the engines.
The green leds flash, but no rpm data show. is this normal?
Tks again, Carlos traina.
Edit: I cut one leg of eache diode for now, nad indeed the green leds are only on when the sensor goes over the magnet, however the rpm is still 0000 with the eletric starter turning the engines.
The green leds flash, but no rpm data show. is this normal?
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
The minimum rpm the twinsync will display I think is either 1500 or 900. Take the plug out of the engine and try it again.
I can mail you replacement diodes. They really only protect from spark noise with gas engines. If you are running on glow engines then they are not needed at all.
Static or plugging something in backwards can damage them. The other possability is if they were installed backwards. I have seen a couple that this happened on but I beat up the assembly people and put a test in the test procedure to check for that so I doubt that is the case.
I can mail you replacement diodes. They really only protect from spark noise with gas engines. If you are running on glow engines then they are not needed at all.
Static or plugging something in backwards can damage them. The other possability is if they were installed backwards. I have seen a couple that this happened on but I beat up the assembly people and put a test in the test procedure to check for that so I doubt that is the case.
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hey bill, no need for the diodes then, I don't see a twin Gasser in my near future, and no need to beat up the assembly people, I had my sensor backwards. Since the lights would flicker when the sensor passed on top of the magnets, i thought they where the right way....Sorry for the trouble!
I'll tach my electric starter tomorrow, it's the new alight one, maybe they are not up to par with the h9 one on rpm, I saw somewhere on this tread they where putting out 3k rpm
I'll tach my electric starter tomorrow, it's the new alight one, maybe they are not up to par with the h9 one on rpm, I saw somewhere on this tread they where putting out 3k rpm
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
By the way, have you ever tought about putting more aux cahnnel on the TwinSync? I've just got a 14mz, and withe the ablility to get up to 28 channels using the mpdx ($9.99 at tower) it would be nice to be able to have more then only one of the TwinSync's functions going....don't really know if it would be worth it, but you know.... just would be nice
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hey Bill,
Finally had a slow weekend where I could break in my 81s, and finally test the twinsync. It worked great, was really fun seeing that If I moved the needle on one engine, the other would follow the rpm, very cool. Now, I only had one minor problem. my display was showing double the actual RPM? If my tach would read 5k, the twinsync display would read 10k, and that was for both engines. Anyway to correct this???
Tks again, and GREAT product you got there!
Finally had a slow weekend where I could break in my 81s, and finally test the twinsync. It worked great, was really fun seeing that If I moved the needle on one engine, the other would follow the rpm, very cool. Now, I only had one minor problem. my display was showing double the actual RPM? If my tach would read 5k, the twinsync display would read 10k, and that was for both engines. Anyway to correct this???
Tks again, and GREAT product you got there!
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Move rotary switch to position 6. press and hold both buttons while rotorary is in pos 6 and turn power on. RPM will then be read at half.
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Great, easy fix!
But just out of being curios: I only have one magnet in each engine, why would be doubling up?
But just out of being curios: I only have one magnet in each engine, why would be doubling up?
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hello guys,
I have recently purchased a ‘twinsync’ with integrated glow system. After installing the device, using the manual, I realised that the yellow LED (LED4) is not working in any throttle position. I checked the device on errors as I thought it might be the glow system but that is fully working. I tried to reset the device, however the error is reoccurring. Thus I am not able to programme the device (sync point, full speed, and idle speed). I am using a transmitter (Graupner). I tried to change the servo endpoint (100 – 150%) and I reversed the polarity of the servo, this did not work either. It would be great if you could help me.
Many thanks,
Sven
I have recently purchased a ‘twinsync’ with integrated glow system. After installing the device, using the manual, I realised that the yellow LED (LED4) is not working in any throttle position. I checked the device on errors as I thought it might be the glow system but that is fully working. I tried to reset the device, however the error is reoccurring. Thus I am not able to programme the device (sync point, full speed, and idle speed). I am using a transmitter (Graupner). I tried to change the servo endpoint (100 – 150%) and I reversed the polarity of the servo, this did not work either. It would be great if you could help me.
Many thanks,
Sven
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Twin Sync and possible RFI:
Bill:
I have a Twin Sync on a twin gasser, G20EI to be specific. This engine has electronic ignition, not a magneto. I made a stand that would hold the center section of the wing and the Twin Sync circuit out where I could set it up for my application, with engines running of course. Everything worked great. The Twin Sync is now installed in the wing and the wing on the plane and I’m getting very erratic throttle response. Both throttles are all over the place with no consistency at all other than they jump together. Throttle response is normal with either engine running alone, which I would expect as the Twin Sync has no control on a single engine. I’m guessing here, but I suspect RFI into the Twin Sync via the speed sensor wiring. There are no other control issues on the plane. (Radio/Receiver is 72 mHz) The nacelle is fairly crowded and the speed sensor wire goes right over the ignition module. I was thinking of shortening and shielding the speed sensor lead and grounding it to the engine. Would that seem to be an appropriate next step, or would there be another?
Bill:
I have a Twin Sync on a twin gasser, G20EI to be specific. This engine has electronic ignition, not a magneto. I made a stand that would hold the center section of the wing and the Twin Sync circuit out where I could set it up for my application, with engines running of course. Everything worked great. The Twin Sync is now installed in the wing and the wing on the plane and I’m getting very erratic throttle response. Both throttles are all over the place with no consistency at all other than they jump together. Throttle response is normal with either engine running alone, which I would expect as the Twin Sync has no control on a single engine. I’m guessing here, but I suspect RFI into the Twin Sync via the speed sensor wiring. There are no other control issues on the plane. (Radio/Receiver is 72 mHz) The nacelle is fairly crowded and the speed sensor wire goes right over the ignition module. I was thinking of shortening and shielding the speed sensor lead and grounding it to the engine. Would that seem to be an appropriate next step, or would there be another?
#823
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Murphey,
You hit the nail on the head...this is definitely spark noise getting into the sensor wires. A local guy had the same problem. The G20ei and G26EI have more noise than any other engine I have seen - plus the ignition pulls about 2.8Amps rather than the industry average of about 600ma. My first recomendation would be to replace the ignitions (C&H for example). You are on the right track... screen wire around the ignition module too...I have wondered if bigger caps on the rails would help too. If you don't have any luck with shielding let me know and I will trade you for a unit to try with more caps on the rails.
You hit the nail on the head...this is definitely spark noise getting into the sensor wires. A local guy had the same problem. The G20ei and G26EI have more noise than any other engine I have seen - plus the ignition pulls about 2.8Amps rather than the industry average of about 600ma. My first recomendation would be to replace the ignitions (C&H for example). You are on the right track... screen wire around the ignition module too...I have wondered if bigger caps on the rails would help too. If you don't have any luck with shielding let me know and I will trade you for a unit to try with more caps on the rails.
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Thanks Bill! I have shortened the sensor wires by about 4", shielded the leads and moved it as far away from the ignition modules as possible. Just waiting for the weather to break and the runway to clear to give it another try. Thanks for the offer on the board with the larger caps...I'll let you know!
Thanks again!
Murphey
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
I would like to thank Bill for his prompt and excellent service regarding a twinsync unit that I purchsed when I bought a Top flight 310 from a gentleman who was getting out off the hobby. The plane had never been flow and when I was trying to set up the twinsync for an engine test, I was having problems and posted a message on this forum. Bill requesed my email and we arranged a time for a phone call so he could walk me through the set up. While we were doing this it became obvious to him that there was a problem with the unit. He requested that I return it to him for a warranty repair even though the unit was probably past the warranty period. I returned the unit to him and he sent me a new replacement unit. As yet I have not tried to set it up but hope to do so this weekend. I would like to thank him for his support of the product.
I will let you know how it works out later after I have had a chance to install it and test the set up.
Thanks again to Bill for his excellent support of this product.
Merv
I will let you know how it works out later after I have had a chance to install it and test the set up.
Thanks again to Bill for his excellent support of this product.
Merv