combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The argument for following the old freq control procedures reverts back to the guy who flys both 72 and 2.4. As a creature of habit, he flips his radio on at will while flying 2.4 and when he switches to 72 will be more prone to forgetting the consequences of not clearing the channel. I'm not saying this happens very often, but no one can deny that it hasn't happened.
A day is coming pretty soon when 72 use becomes rare enough to make finding 2 guys on the same channel extremely unlikely.
Meanwhile, the debate seems to have broken down to whether or not proof of AMA is to be assumed [space cadet honor system] or to be put on display, regardless whether you fly there everyday or just once every 5 years..

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Well I guess anyone that visits, that has a key-bob for their auto, should also post their AMA card since interference from it is as likely as 2.4

Srewinkel

FCMG should have posted his card, but he does not HAVE to. So to get back to the original question of how to handle the guy.  Leave him be, if he becomes dangerous while flying, or threatens violence to people, then the group should handle the situation.  I didn't realize that threatening to beat someone up is a crime to be arrest for.

Quikturn

My Feedback: (12)

Who made the local flying club sheriff over everyone else? It simply is not the clubs job to ensure everyone has an AMA card. This is a matter of personal responsibility using public land.

Control freaks stand down!

Stickbuilder

Didn't sound like a threat to me. It actually sounded more like a promise. When I belonged to some clubs, there were always a bunch of ex hall monitors who were very proud of their positions within the clubs. I have seen them really try to throw their weight around until someone called them on it. They always turned tail and ran like Hell.

Bill, AMA 4720

KidEpoxy

Srewinkel
+1

804

My Feedback: (1)

This is like deja vu all over again.[8D]

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

Once again I will state the true fact that if you argue with and idiot they will drag you down to their level and beat you up with experience.

Someone deleted my last post, I guess the forum police and I'd love to see them do the same in a editorial piece in my public newspaper. Censorship .... man. And here I thought this was an AMERICAN RUN WEBSITE yet someone with a different view and the power could and DID remove my post. For that I commend you Mr. Czar..


Keep arguing and beating the dead horse and Mr. censorship will keep editing and deleting.


Close the frinken thread if you feel the need.


Wahoo

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

One rule:

Have AMA insurance !!! period


Now how hard is that ? ??

804

My Feedback: (1)

According the OP, threats were made.
Here is a link to a Florida law office with a little info, for whatever it is worth.

http://www.miamidefensefirm.com/Miam...t_Threats.aspx

I also checked into the Florida statutes a bit, and there are statutes dealing with verbal threats under "Assault", and "Stalking".

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

If i could rate 804 a minus I would...I'd rate him minus 100 for his lack of understanding that on public land the "club" has no authority over the general public...

Seems like he wants absolute power over anyone who shares his interest,... he is sorrily mistaken.

Club rules are for just that ...The CLUB. Not the public who wish to particapate in the hobby.

Damn DEAD HORSE!!!!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hall monitors.. LOL...fits nicely. Yep...hall monitors... at school always raised their hands for the chance... What a bunch of dorks they were...

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

LMAO !!

Srewinkel

Wow talk about twisting and smearing what is happening here. There was no assault, and no stalking. But thanks for the info, next time i am in florida and someone calls me a name I'll be sure to call the cops. What was this about common sense earlier???

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I have tried to stay away from responding to the vitriole in this thread. Many posts earlier the OP said what he was going to do, and apparently walked away from this out of control thread. Kudos to him.

Some posters here have tried to debate that being on public land, the OP had no authority to enforce rules. Although stated as fact, this is simply an assumption. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. He was going to work with the local authorities to ensure the responsiblity and authority of the club to enforce the safety rules at the field was clarified. More Kudos to him.

An issue not discussed in any of the posts is that FCMG was promoting behavior that might be encouraging other people to not post their cards. This behavior could be seen as inviting people that did not have an AMA membership to take a chance and fly at the field without getting challenged. If everybody plays by the same rules, everybody expects to see an AMA card posted. Further, if everybody challenges those that don't post their card, they have a much better chance of ensuring they don't lose the field.

I post this because there may be others having similar issues at publicly owned fields that have been entrusted to an AMA club. I know of several. I hope that those that are facing similar issues will be proactive with their local authorities to ensure their authority is clearly delineated in a land use agreement.

Brad

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

I see it as two separate problems here.

The first is flying without following the club rules. I must admit, if someone shows up, out of the blue, and starts flying at this nice field, when no one is there, well, as the saying goes, if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to hear it, does it make any noise?

If the club rules are not posted, then there is no way a new person can know the rules.

In this situation, the person KNOWS the rules, and chooses to ignore them. That's a problem. And if the club has no agreement with the county, then enforcement of the rules is going to be tough. This person sounds like a trouble maker and a non-conformest and short of having the person removed for trespassing, well, it's going to have to be a club position to take as far as visitors are concerned, and as Combatpig noted, get together with the county officials and establish rules, if they are willing to do so.

The other issus are the threats and difficult situation he puts you in. I can tell you this... at the very first indication of threats of personal injury, he would be talking to the police in short order, AND, if witnesses are present, I would, in a New York Minute, press charges. I've done it before and it immediately diffused the situation. Once you "push back" with a legal threat, that tends to change the agressor to an agressee right fast. And if it doesn't, well, that's up to the police to deal with.

And, if it continues, well, there is a such thing as a restraining order that will prevent the person from coming anywere near you personally, and the club in general.

CGr.

airbatic

Sounds like Keith Lindsey at the GAMA field in Fort Valley.

Buh-bye GAMA.

KidEpoxy

BKD-
You are absolutely correct that we dont have all the info we need to make the call.
We simply have not seen the text of the county rule for public pilots using the site.
However, the OP is much closer to the situation than us,
and HE is one of the ones that havent said that the county rule is to use the freq board... his presentation of the county rule has the term '"show" proof of AMA'.

So in your assessment of the situation the OP enforcing the rule the FCMG is breaking,
we cant say that for sure, because we havent seen the actual county rule he is allegedly breaking,
and cant say it in the scope of what we know from the OP, because even the OP doesnt say that the county rule has FreqBoard in it.

Everyone that wants to talk about dealing with FCMG as a rule breaker, or label him a Rule Breaker
should first be able to tell us what county rule he is actually breaking.

Mode One

And, since the OP is no longer interested in contributing here where he has been ill treated, it's not likely he will return to answer the unanswered questions!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Boy, If this tiny bit of heat can keep him from man'n up and answering a few questions he'll never be successful in making the general public adhere to his interpretation of the club rules at his field...

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Perhaps, it really shows that he is not some cowboy out looking for fight but someone who was concerned enough about doing the job he was tasked with and when he came hear seeking answers was railed by the typical tail-pullers. If indeed that was the case, it is hard to blame him for not having anything else to say. He has nothing to gain by it, and everything to lose, which could also include a flying site that is shared not only by his club but by other fliers who obviously do not have a problem observing the etiquette displayed by the majority of the people who use the site.
Whether you think you are right or not, it does not give you a license to act like an azz anytime you feel so obliged to do so. This is typically one of the things children learn in kindergarten, but fail to utilize it thru their adult years.

bogbeagle

I can't help but think that most people, when they ask for "ideas" are really just seeking support for their own views. Perhaps I'm a cynic.

I've forced myself to re-visit some of the earliest posts in this thread. Of these, the very first post is revealing; in fact, the very first sentence is most revealing. That sentence defines the whole argument...Our club has a unique feild that is owned by the county park system and is open to all pilots so long as they have a Valid AMA membership.

All the rest is just strong personalities grappling for control; or so it seems to me.

804

My Feedback: (1)

Srewinkel,

Florida law is pertinent, because the OP resides in...Florida!
And, I didn't say, never have, there was an assault, or stalking. Only that verbal threats are covered under those subtitles. Meaning, verbal threats can be classified as a form of assault or stalking. Get it?
If you had bothered to read the link, or Googled Florida Satutes, you would have been just a bit more informed than you were in your above post.
The twisting and turning were on your part.

Quikturn

My Feedback: (12)

804,

We don't know what the threats were. We do know threats were made from a confrontation started by the OP. It sounds like a case for judge Judy.

The flying club is acting like an 800lb gorilla at this fllying field by trying to impose thier rules on anyone that shows up there. We're talking about a public park here. All that is required by the county is to have a valid AMA card. There is no mention of a need to display it except for the club rules. The club does not have authority over non-members. Why is this so hard to understand?

glowplugboy

My Feedback: (17)

We have a similar county-provided r/c field. It too is public access. We have an AMA chartered club at the field, and as long as a non-club member has an AMA card, they of course can fly there too. As the so-called "safety officer", I am tasked with asking people to post AMA cards on the frequency board. I don't know everyone, so I don't know if they actually have AMA insurance. Although I have not encountered anyone who objected to the point of potential violence, I have been told on more than a couple of occassions to "KMA". I also want to note I have observed very little unsafe flying at our facility, and when it does happen, a group of flyers approach the unsafe flyer and counsel him. 2.4 has revolutionized frequency control, nevertheless, I still think its a good idea to post one's AMA card on the frequency board, as it is visible proof of AMA membership.

This past Sunday, the club president and I had an interesting conversation with the deputy sheriff assigned to park security. Because we would like to avoid the problems encountered by the gentleman who started this thread, we asked him if someone refused to post their AMA card, could we summon him and ask the person to post and be in accordance with our written safety rules. He obliged us by driving over and talking with his supervisor, and returned a short time later to tell us he had no authority to enforce any of the flying field safety rules, and the only thing he could respond to was a "disturbance", i.e., a fight, public drunkeness, someone injured, and so on. He suggested we take it up with the county. That meeting has yet to take place, but it will be interesting to see what the county's position is on our club rules that require the posting of an AMA card, and does that rule carry over to non-club members flying there? Perhaps more importantly, if they want AMA cards posted as part of their county policy, will they assist when necessary to make sure those who refuse to post either do so, or be asked to leave?