Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
12-06-2009, 10:38 PM
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Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fdaFfkn_Ho
Just like full size aviation plane crashes happen to us in scale model aviation. knowledge is gained from each crash and used to make model aviation safer. This video shows what can happen when after years of safe and trouble free flight, structural fatigue if not caught in time will bring down scale models just like our full size counterparts. We show this video not for shock value but as a tool to increase safety and knowledge in the model aviation community. I know Tim is a very safe pilot and keeps his models in top mechanical condition so if this can happen to him, it can happen to us who fly these beautiful scale models.
Six
Just like full size aviation plane crashes happen to us in scale model aviation. knowledge is gained from each crash and used to make model aviation safer. This video shows what can happen when after years of safe and trouble free flight, structural fatigue if not caught in time will bring down scale models just like our full size counterparts. We show this video not for shock value but as a tool to increase safety and knowledge in the model aviation community. I know Tim is a very safe pilot and keeps his models in top mechanical condition so if this can happen to him, it can happen to us who fly these beautiful scale models.
Six
12-07-2009, 08:42 AM
#2
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Sorry for the loss...
Now, after looking at the impact 10 times in slow motion - my conclusion is, not the tail give out. The tail broke at the second bounce when the airplane spun around. When the airplane hit the ground the elevator stabs touched and pieces flu off. If the tail would have being damaged then you would see it.
This accident was caused by other reason but a broken tail. I would take a close look at the radio/receiver/servo side.
Now, after looking at the impact 10 times in slow motion - my conclusion is, not the tail give out. The tail broke at the second bounce when the airplane spun around. When the airplane hit the ground the elevator stabs touched and pieces flu off. If the tail would have being damaged then you would see it.
This accident was caused by other reason but a broken tail. I would take a close look at the radio/receiver/servo side.
12-07-2009, 12:41 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
What a shame on the P51, hope Tim fixes it because I want to fly with him again.
That's the old Byron P51, it always breaks at that foam former joint, pretty sure it broke in air and caused the model to pitch down. Tim is a pretty smooth flyer.
That's the old Byron P51, it always breaks at that foam former joint, pretty sure it broke in air and caused the model to pitch down. Tim is a pretty smooth flyer.
12-07-2009, 01:13 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
ORIGINAL: fw190
What a shame on the P51, hope Tim fixes it because I want to fly with him again.
That's the old Byron P51, it always breaks at that foam former joint, pretty sure it broke in air and caused the model to pitch down. Tim is a pretty smooth flyer.
What a shame on the P51, hope Tim fixes it because I want to fly with him again.
That's the old Byron P51, it always breaks at that foam former joint, pretty sure it broke in air and caused the model to pitch down. Tim is a pretty smooth flyer.
Odd... I've had 4 Byron 51s over the years, never had that problem.
-M51
12-07-2009, 04:00 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Hi Guys,
We did not show the part of the video were you can see the tail section moving as Tim makes a turn one pass before the back of the fuse brakes. The post crash inspection and video of the complete flight points to the weak fiberglass section at the drosel fin connection point. It was very windy at the time of the flight and the tail section only moved under high loads. You can see when Tim picks up the mustang the tail does not move but you know its broke. I believe Tim will fix her and bring her back from the dead.
Six
We did not show the part of the video were you can see the tail section moving as Tim makes a turn one pass before the back of the fuse brakes. The post crash inspection and video of the complete flight points to the weak fiberglass section at the drosel fin connection point. It was very windy at the time of the flight and the tail section only moved under high loads. You can see when Tim picks up the mustang the tail does not move but you know its broke. I believe Tim will fix her and bring her back from the dead.
Six
12-07-2009, 04:07 PM
#9
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
BTW, if the tail broke in the air (which is not the case) - the rip is on the bottom, the airplane would pitch up not down
AND, if the tail would be separated an good length the the elevator would be over 5 degree... the airplane would go straight down.
AND, if the tail would be separated an good length the the elevator would be over 5 degree... the airplane would go straight down.
12-08-2009, 12:39 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Hi Guys,
I think the most possible cause is elevator flutter. The plane was approaching at full throttle, out of a semi dive, the airspeed was at maximum. Elevator flutter will cause a down pitch like you just saw, and cause the crash. Notice also that the plane almost seemed to recover just before impact, this could be that the pilot pulled up elevator, maybe enough to stop the flutter, but too late.
Don
I think the most possible cause is elevator flutter. The plane was approaching at full throttle, out of a semi dive, the airspeed was at maximum. Elevator flutter will cause a down pitch like you just saw, and cause the crash. Notice also that the plane almost seemed to recover just before impact, this could be that the pilot pulled up elevator, maybe enough to stop the flutter, but too late.
Don
12-09-2009, 09:17 AM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
I just think it was caused by a pilot who does not know how to fly a warbid. TO FAST. Why I ask does everyone fly warbirds at mach speeds. I have been flying warbird for 10 plus years and have been to many warbird events. I always get comments on how realastic my planes fly, thats because I build heavy, do not over power and use props that are bigger than recommended. All that equals no high speed stalls, tail flutter, and a scale flying warbird.
MEMPHISBELLE
MEMPHISBELLE
12-09-2009, 12:06 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Tim is quite a good pilot... and I know he can build for speed as he use to participate in giant scale warbird racing... Some things just go wrong, its part of the hobby... have you had something go wrong? I am sure I have a few throughout the years in the hobby... Tim maybe 25+ years in the hobby...
Interesting, I had a 190d9 that I flew for 10 years, got over 300+ flights on it, a buddy of mine is flying it now with another 30+ flights on it and I have had a few warbirds that lasted less than 1 minute on its maiden flight... [
]
Interesting, I had a 190d9 that I flew for 10 years, got over 300+ flights on it, a buddy of mine is flying it now with another 30+ flights on it and I have had a few warbirds that lasted less than 1 minute on its maiden flight... [
]
ORIGINAL: MEMPHISBELLE
I just think it was caused by a pilot who does not know how to fly a warbid. TO FAST. Why I ask does everyone fly warbirds at mach speeds. I have been flying warbird for 10 plus years and have been to many warbird events. I always get comments on how realastic my planes fly, thats because I build heavy, do not over power and use props that are bigger than recommended. All that equals no high speed stalls, tail flutter, and a scale flying warbird.
MEMPHISBELLE
I just think it was caused by a pilot who does not know how to fly a warbid. TO FAST. Why I ask does everyone fly warbirds at mach speeds. I have been flying warbird for 10 plus years and have been to many warbird events. I always get comments on how realastic my planes fly, thats because I build heavy, do not over power and use props that are bigger than recommended. All that equals no high speed stalls, tail flutter, and a scale flying warbird.
MEMPHISBELLE
12-09-2009, 12:39 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
You can see at 46 seconds he pulls up after diving, the tail flexes down which would cause the plane to dive, which it does. Looks like the original post-crash analysis is correct. Of course these threads would be a lot less interesting without the armchair know-it-alls declaring what "really" caused the crash.
12-09-2009, 02:11 PM
#17
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Looked at this video at least a dozen times. I would tend to agree with the crash analysis although it's pretty hard to tell with the resolution of that video. It's important to note that where the fiberglass cracked looks to be exactly where the front of tail wheel cutout would be on the bottom of the fuselage. Since it was a right angle cut I would suspect that's where it let go. Based on the pitch downward at that speed, it wouldn't take a whole lot of movement in the horizontal stab.
12-09-2009, 03:10 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
ORIGINAL: smithcreek
You can see at 46 seconds he pulls up after diving, the tail flexes down which would cause the plane to dive, which it does. Looks like the original post-crash analysis is correct. Of course these threads would be a lot less interesting without the armchair know-it-alls declaring what ''really'' caused the crash.
You can see at 46 seconds he pulls up after diving, the tail flexes down which would cause the plane to dive, which it does. Looks like the original post-crash analysis is correct. Of course these threads would be a lot less interesting without the armchair know-it-alls declaring what ''really'' caused the crash.
.Bruce
12-09-2009, 03:35 PM
#19
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Alright guys - now I destroy the illusion the tail broke in the air and pitched the airplane down.
Watch the video seconds 52 to 54 - IF the tail would be broken the airplane would NOT fly again. 52 to 54 shows clearly the airplane flies, loses airspeed and touch the ground again.
This can only happen with an intact tail. The port and starboard tailfeathers were a little stripped but the glide is pretty straight - albeit a high angle of attack on considered airspeed.
At this speed the elevator control surface needs to move only 1/8 of an inch to get that down force movement. As I stated before I would look close at the radio/receiver/servo site.
Watch the video seconds 52 to 54 - IF the tail would be broken the airplane would NOT fly again. 52 to 54 shows clearly the airplane flies, loses airspeed and touch the ground again.
This can only happen with an intact tail. The port and starboard tailfeathers were a little stripped but the glide is pretty straight - albeit a high angle of attack on considered airspeed.
At this speed the elevator control surface needs to move only 1/8 of an inch to get that down force movement. As I stated before I would look close at the radio/receiver/servo site.
12-09-2009, 03:51 PM
#21
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
ORIGINAL: Walt Thyng
Does anybody know why the Plane Art ''videos'' look like a series of stills at least on my Mac?
Walt
Does anybody know why the Plane Art ''videos'' look like a series of stills at least on my Mac?
Walt
12-09-2009, 06:10 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Hello all,
I have seen the complete video and I have overlaid one frame over another, believe me, the fues section at the tail was weak and under load flex just enough to cause the Mustang to pitch down. The fact that the tail was moving at the end of the crash slide and then when Tim and Brian pick up the Mustang you don't see the tail move again tells you the fiberglass is just weak NOT broken off. It was windy at the time of the crash and the Mustang was being hit with cross winds. The point of this video is don't think your giant scale models are perfect, they do age and can fail just like the full size aircraft do. I have had many emails in the past few days saying "Thanks" for showing this crash, it has made them think about this issue and some have inspected thier models just to be safe.
Thanks for watching and commenting here, all points of view are welcome
Six
I have seen the complete video and I have overlaid one frame over another, believe me, the fues section at the tail was weak and under load flex just enough to cause the Mustang to pitch down. The fact that the tail was moving at the end of the crash slide and then when Tim and Brian pick up the Mustang you don't see the tail move again tells you the fiberglass is just weak NOT broken off. It was windy at the time of the crash and the Mustang was being hit with cross winds. The point of this video is don't think your giant scale models are perfect, they do age and can fail just like the full size aircraft do. I have had many emails in the past few days saying "Thanks" for showing this crash, it has made them think about this issue and some have inspected thier models just to be safe.
Thanks for watching and commenting here, all points of view are welcome
Six
12-10-2009, 02:22 AM
#23
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
Looks to me like the area in question is where the fuselage sections are joined during construction On the Byron. I have built one. Could be this joint failed after so many flights on her. Fiberglass. [] Actually, I prefer glassed wood construction on my giants. I think they hold up better over the long haul.
] Actually, I prefer glassed wood construction on my giants. I think they hold up better over the long haul.
12-10-2009, 11:17 AM
#24
RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
ORIGINAL: Walt Thyng
Does anybody know why the Plane Art ''videos'' look like a series of stills at least on my Mac?
Walt
Does anybody know why the Plane Art ''videos'' look like a series of stills at least on my Mac?
Walt
12-10-2009, 01:38 PM
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RE: Giant Scale P-51 High Speed Ground Impact Crash Video
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Looks to me like the area in question is where the fuselage sections are joined during construction On the Byron. I have built one. Could be this joint failed after so many flights on her. Fiberglass. [] Actually, I prefer glassed wood construction on my giants. I think they hold up better over the long haul.
Looks to me like the area in question is where the fuselage sections are joined during construction On the Byron. I have built one. Could be this joint failed after so many flights on her. Fiberglass. [
] Actually, I prefer glassed wood construction on my giants. I think they hold up better over the long haul.
Wood is great for making a nice looking fuselage plug!
