YHR

I love to hear the hobby shop perspective on this. So thanks for sharing that with us Karen.

I think the new Heng Longs are ready for Prime time. The Mato Sherman is certainly not. The electronics when they are working aren't bad, but those boards are some of the crappiest soldered circuits I have ever seen. They also don't play well with the DBC, so most of us are just putting RX 18 in them(Heng Long please bring back the old sounds on the RX18) I think Mato is preferring to shoulder the pain on their own for the most part until the next release with the better electronics, and that is why the distrubution network for these is very small. They will get better.

Back to the Heng long Panther. Great tank, separate detail parts, plug and play electronics and their best attempt yet. I doubt you would have much go wrong with these.

mrunktonkey

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Key word being 'much'. I am a fellow hobbyist, so this is some good news and the new Panther is on my aquisition list.. . tied with a Jagdpanther for the top actually. However, this tank is still going to give the average RC toy consumer fits and a potential retailer as well. No one likes parting with $160 + for twenty minutes of run time before they have a mechanical or electrical failure. Llikely one they can't dope out a fix for.... so back to the store it goes. Someone suggested 'in store' repairs which is a good idea, but I can't see a retailer maintaining an HL technician on duty to fix (at no charge) every HLtank that gets carried out the front door. It ain't gonna happen. Full line RC retailers are in it for the MONEY. Period. Enthusiats selling HL tanks out of their garage because they've got a passion for the hobby are another story. They can't be making a dime doing it.

What's sad about all of this is that HL could increase the reliability of these tanks immensely with some thoughtful engineering, especially in the mechanical area. Heck, a lot of it has been done for them if they'd take a peek at the aftermarket fixes for thier junk. I don't know if they're just too lazy too stupid. Geezus, if VS can make a fairly reliable tank, HL can too. Ah, whatever.

BTW, thanks Karen for the insight from a retailer's standpoint.... your experience essentially confirmed my earlier thoughts on the subject.

Cheers, Bob

YHR

Respectfully Bob, all I will say is you need to buy the new HL Panther before making some of those comments.

Mine was flawless. Only complaints I have heard is that the front drive screw has come loose on a couple. Don't know if you can expect more then that out of a RTR 1/16 scale RC tank.

Heng Long is now using Derlin plastic for hand holds and lifting rings. This is the stuff model railroad manufactures use for locomotive handrails. IF they can get HO and N scale handrails to hold up using it, I am pretty sure the stuff is great for 1/16 scale. Does Tamiya even use this stuff?
The new Heng long is all plug and play, and the wiring is compact and neat. Very clean. Are Heng Long listening? You bet they are. All the tools are now molded as separate add ons. Why, because we asked for it. You know if they used lower gearing, and improved the running sounds 20%, I would pay up to $300 for one. And that my friend is why the brick and motor stores will get interested. The quality has reached a level were a decent profit margin for retailers can be built into the price. In some ways it is a shame because mainstream marketing is designed to protect the suggested retail price, and we may soon see these on the shelves, but when we do, say goodbye to tanks for less then $200. Retailers will not carry these things if Heng long does not protect the price point. Personally I am OK with Heng Long, and for the reason mentioned above am not not keen on seeing them at Brick and mortor stores

Check out the lifting rings and hatch handles.

cheap tank

The last two i got jagdpanther and kv1 are a great improvement over the early ones but still the kv was dammaged and needed work out of the box. These things are great but you need to look at them as a kit that is mostly in one peice for the price and for those who like to mod them it is not that big of a deal. I think you are right YHR if hobby shops start selling them the price will double.

YHR

Yes I have heard there is structural problems with the KV1. Just not strong enough where the idlers are attached. I had no desire to own that tank, so I have no personal experience with it however.

cheap tank

I put an extra screw in the idelr mount mounted the gearboxes on a peice of aluminum and fixed the broken cannon mountc after fixing it i have run it quite a bit with metal tracks no problem. To sell at a store though having to fix it to run it still would not work out for the seller. I forgot the metal drive sprocket teeth did not line up and had to be fixed to use.

mrunktonkey

Again that's good to hear and I said above I do plan on buying one. I think I also implied my comments aren't applicable to hobbyists here on this forum or elsewhere. They are just an observation regarding mainstream RC consumers who aren't going to be satisfied spending $160+ for an RC tank that won't run half an hour before it has a mechanical failure. A wheel falling off is just that, IME, especially when removal of a track is nesessay to replace the wheel .



I agree with everything you've said. Frankly I'd rather spend an addtional $75 to $100 for an HL tank that had an acceptable lever of reliability as well. IOW, the sucker ran longer than 5 - 6 hours before something minor went wrong with it. To get that now you've got spend 100's in aftermarket parts and initiate a research project in t he process. If HL wants to increase their sales, they are going to have to go in this direction as you've said, increase the reliablity and the price to match it. They aren't there yet, but based on what you're saying, maybe that's about to change for the better. I certainly hope so.

Cheers, Bob

karel47

Yes tamiya gives a god quality but is not that perfect for its price! Many little updates have to be done, like drill hatsches out etc ... for that price i can be a lot better. I own 5 tamiya's FO tanks so i know how they works.
Last week my new jagdpanther from Torro arrived yes no tamiya one this time, i must say i was plesantly surprised of the panzer, the superstructure was more than detailed enough, the sound was ok and the muzzle flash was intenser than my KT or Tiger I from tamiya.
And the torro costed me 86€ shippings in. It works when i start it just like my tamiya's ... am for sure this would not be my last Torro tanks.
I now making all sorts of upgrades just like i have to do for tamiya but torro is much cheaper, you can afford to spend some updates ...

Hope this helps a bit for the beginners

karel47

Here in belgium we have a few ebay shops wich sell HL and matorro tanks but they are about 40€ more expensive than the Torro Gmbh shop in germany for my jagdpanther i payed 86€ with shipping in and on ebay many sellers ask 130€ for the same tanks. The retailers have to concurate to speciatised shops, they earn money why our shops want so much profits.
Thats the reason why they can't sell tamiya or HL or Torro tanks, don't you agree...

BiggTony

I think any good hobby shop is owned by a hobby enthusiast to begin with(commercial hobby chains are excluded).Inmy opinion,the merchant should know his/her products, which has been the casewhen I've had inquires of itemsin the past from my local hobby shops. It's my belief that a seller and customer have equal responsibilities, a 50/50 relationship.So, it's ideal for potential customers interested in any product tohold up to their end of the responsibility by asking appropriate questions.It's the dealers responsibility to volunteer this informationforself benefitif these questionsdon't come up beforethe final transaction proceeds. Again, this is ideal.

Maybe it's just me, but when I walk into a hobby store, I lose all sense of "work free" merchandise.

In my experience with RC Heli's and cars purchased from a hobby shop or hobby grade.....RTR has always been misleading. I've purchased most of these things online andI sacrificedimportant knowledge that would have likely prepared me for a reasonable and realistic expectation that a locale hobby shop would have gladly relayed.

First off, despite that these are not Tamiya kits and argued that these are not real hobby grade Tanks. They are hobby grade nonetheless.
So in that aspect, work is required, even right out of the box. RTR should be taken as a grain of salt, unless your purchasing a RTR toy from Walmart.

Locale shops should carry parts for any of their items sold, so I don't think it's a question of "would they." I haven't been in a hobby shop that doesn'tsupport the items they sell unless they no longer sell the item itself.

Basically, I don't see it being as big an issue for retailers to carry these tanks, provided the retailer sets realistic expectations at the time of purchase. Much of the potentialheadache could be sorted, simply by saying, "the tank is assembled for you, but work is still required."

Just my opinion, which is not uncommon for being misguided!

Panther G

From just a locallity stand point. There are no more HOBBY SHOPS left near me. The last one deals with Tamiya parts but is very expensive and they dont stock tanks or tank parts. With that situation it is not hard to see why a shop that still remains would not want to carry a product with such a questionable reputation.

RSEA

There used to be a hobby shop about a 15 minute drive from my house. I remember a couple years ago they had an HL Tiger I on display and for sale in the shop. It was the first time I had ever seen an HL tank in person. Their price on it was $299. That same hobby shop has since gone out of business and no longer exists. The landlord seized the inventory and changed the locks on the suite because the shop owner had failed to make rent payments. Within a month or so later, the shop was all empty and gone permanently. They primarily sold RC planes, cars and static plastic model kits.

RedWolfI

Interestingly enough, my family and I were just at the AAF Tank Museum gift shop yesterday (1/16).  My son actually picked up a VsTank Pro 1:24 M4A3 Sherman, and I was staring longingly at the 1:16 Tamiyas (gotta save some more money).  We just recently became aware of the existence of the RC tank hobby, and I've been asking the same question about local hobby shops.  I spent quite a bit of time before Christmas trying to find RC tanks, and with the few local shops that we still have, none of the ones we found were carrying tanks.  Fortunately, just after the holidays we found a new local shop that does sell RC tanks, including the Heng Longs.  They seem to be extremely knowledgeable about RC tanks, including how to upgrade the HLs to be Tamiya compatible, so maybe our luck is changing.  I'll have to go back and ask them what made them decide to include tanks in their inventory. 

googlydoogly

I just tested my HL Jagdpanther. Yeah it runs alright. In fact, it wouldn't stop running. It runs the moment you switch it on, and the only way you can stop it is if you turn the tank off.

Oh wells. Not really interested in its running ability. But the average person would be taking this tank back right about now and get their money back.

paladin

My Feedback: (9)

son and i bought two IR panther V's saturday i could hit him, he could not hit me. turned out to be a soldiered wire that broke free from one of the flux starved soldier solier joints. We put aprox. 2 hr run time on each tank Saturday. sunday after about an hr I lost a tooth in the left drive. looks to have had dirt in the pot metal that weakened that tooth.

two tanks two problems, i can't see a hobby shop wanting to buy into that.

Joe

mrunktonkey

Somebody oughtta start a thread... 'What's the longest HL tank run time new outta the box?' Hahahahahahaha.... give the winner a bottle of blue LocTite.. heeeeeeeee!!! I'm bettin' it isn't longer than 30 minutes max. ROTFLMAO!

Nitey nite, all.

Cheers, Bob

googlydoogly

This pretty much sums up why it's not feasible of brick-and-mortar stores to sell these tanks. A local shop has a lot of overhead costs they have to worry about. They have to pay rent, pay the utilities, pay their employees, pay whatever taxes associated with owning a store (and trust me, depending where you live, it could be a killer). Most online retailers do not have to worry about these things. That's why an online retailer will always beat a local shop in terms of pricing.

If you can't stomach paying more for a tank, then don't complain if no local shop would carry them.

kochj

I think first, one must know what a heng long tank is ....

Have another Shrimp on the BOBY, Why don't yah??

paladin

My Feedback: (9)

Pzr III at the mall show saw 2hr per day and an hr a week by 4yr old grandson since august. that has to be 25hr runtime no problems yet. that is with a four year old banging it into everything he can find.
Tiger 1 12hr, Pzr IV 6hr.
M26- new gears + metal sproket and throws tracks regularly.

Joe

uhu

Hi Karel47

Do you belgians have some special pricing treatment in Torro-Shop? The Jagdpanther cost me 129.90 € without (ouch!) shipping costs to Spain.....

http://www.torro-shop.de/product_inf...TTLE-UNIT.html

Regards
Uhu

Snaps

Hey I must have the Tiger. 3 yrs (150hrs) and still going strong. Only now am I upgrading, as mate of mine has caught the bug.

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

For what it's worth, I spoke to my local hobby shop about carrying tanks. He basically said that in order to sell them, he would have to get more money than what they sell for on the internet due to his overhead. Though he can order Tamiya kits, in the seven years he's been there, not one person has requested one. The HL's would cost him far too much money to stock and he doesn't have enough room to store a container worth of them anyway. The other problem is most of the customers he has have no idea about rc tanks existing. I had my Tiger 1 in there to show him and every person who walked through the door was askig about it. None of them had ever seen one before. So much for searching the web....

BiggTony

Man, I really hate to go back on what I said previously. But, after finally receiving my first tank today. I don't think it would be in the best interest of a shop to carry these tanks! As of now, these tanks are best suited online wherethe purchaseris more apt to fix it themselves then mail it back! Whereas if I could, IWOULDjust drive my happy tail back to the store to either return it or have it repaired for me!

There are obviously some things that have not been QC'd. Such as, making sure all screws are tightened or better yet, making sure they are there at all! I could see this being the biggest pain for a shop owner to deal with. Not only would they have to carry parts for repairs or upgrades. They would have to carry spares for missing things that should have been there.

Anyway, to have your tank malfunction over things that really should have been unlikely is alot for a new hobbyist to absorb.

For instance:

My TIger, although was in working condition, after 1-2 minutes of running, I seen the 3rd outer road wheel wiggling. At first I thought the swing arm was broken. Didn't really know what to do at that point, so I contacted Phil. In the mean time, I felt my only option was to fix it myself. I've been anxiously waiting for the arrival of my tank for a over a week. So I figured since I intended to take the tank apartfor painting inthe future, I'll pretend it's now.

Sooo, I struggled with removing the metal tracks,then had tofigure out what screws to remove (although, it wasn't necessary to remove the top....... I didn't know that.)

Break the machine gun turret in the process, then break the hose bracket.

Spend almost 40 minutes trying to get the road wheels off, yeah you read right.

For the life of me, I could not get the road wheels apart. Read tutorials, over and over and over.........why doesn't mine just pop off! Finally I have Phil on the phone and although he offered to repair it for me, I wasn't having it.

At first, even he thought my road wheels should just pop off and confirmed it on a Tiger that he had, but it was the older one. Then he grabs a new one and at that moment, we both realize that there is a long hex screw holdingeach ofthe road wheels together. So apparently there are some improvements in the design, but not the QC.

Fortunately all that was need was the swing arm to be re-screwed in, but it's missing a washer, so it's not a permanent fix.

Then all of the work putting that sucker back together!Oh theagony of having to run back and forth to the computer to look at tutorials!Then make due with the 5 out of 10 screws that are missing, and decide what areas need the most securing.

Figure out how to get the road wheels screwed back on the arm with the proper tension.

Fumble with the metal tracks for over almost an hour to get them back on. After getting them back on, one of the tracks is too tight or too loose, so now it's got to be readjusted.......later.

Sure, I probably would have dealt with this sooner or later if I were wanting to get serious with this hobby, but 5 minutes out of the box........?

I would just like to reiterate, if I had purchased this from a locale shop, it would have been their headache to deal with. But, all is well and the hobby shall proceed!

yellowshaker

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Phil's a great guy and stands behind everything he sells. He'll always help out. As many have said, these tanks are not trouble free, but they sure are a blast!!!

BiggTony

I definitely agree with you!I certainly feel satisfied with my decision to go with Phil at Rctankwars over Raidentech. I can't possibly imagine them being available to me as soon as I need them. Answered emails swiftly, answered his phone, and replacing the missing parts and my screw ups. What more can I ask? I'm definitely going to love this hobby. Now, if only I could turn my wife's frown upside down! "Can't you pick a quieter hobby?" she says. "Can't you be quiet at all?" I thought, LMAO!!!