jt45255

great info i appreciate it very much. a few people in my flying club recommended that i check you all out and i now cant wait to get my plane from wild hare. i called them to order the plane and i recieved some very good customer service. all my questions answerd. and was left feeling confident about my purchase. wish all buisness treated there customers like that.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I am working on compiling pictures and thoughts from my build, but wanted to say I took the opportunity to fly mine on Monday.

I set my timer for 6 minutes, then flew around trimming the plane until it hit the low voltage cutoff when I was up high. I thought 'No problem', turned around, made an approach, went a bit too long but didn't want to risk losing power on an aborted landing so I forced it down and rolled into the tall weeds. No problems. Not bad, 8min 30 sec flight. That is a bit shorter than I thought (using 3700 mAh cells), but not bad.

Second flight I hit the LVC at about 4 min 30 sec when I was at about 70' going into a
hammerhead, and at the downwind edge of the field (which is a steep 40' high hill). I leveled out, milked it upwind as far as I could muster, flew a left-hand teardrop to final, missed the mud puddle and the road, set up for final. Uh oh, the wind is picking up (maybe ~7-8 knot tailwind, gusting to 12 kt), set it down on the dirt, and ran the right wheel right into a grass clump. The plane flipped over onto the top of it rudder very fast. I thought it would be badly damaged.

Luckily the only damage was to my ego. I took a very close look at the plane. Besides the dirt on the cowl, wheel pants, wing, and rudder, it was surprisingly clean. Even more impressive was the fact that the paint on the cowl and wheel pants didn't chip! No damage was sustained by the rudder or fin. Also I fully expected to at least crack the landing gear. Nope, not even a chip or stress fracture anywhere. The landing gear attachment block is still solid without any cracking of glue joints.

Needless to say this is a very stout airframe! I have destroyed planes on softer landings that this one, especially the harrier landings which can be very hard on the fuse.

Rule #1 of electric flight: If I can't remember the last time I charged my batteries, there is a good chance they are not charged!

As it turns out my batteries were last charged with a "Storage Charge" setting on my FMA Cellpro, which takes it to about 50% charge state. That was a few weeks ago. When I fly again (using fully-charged batteries of course) I will set my timer at 11 minutes, and work up from there. I expect 12 minutes will give me enough power to go around a few times before it dies on me (again using the 3700 mAh batteries).

So how did it fly? Very nicely. The power using the stock power system gives it a slingshot effect launching out of a hover, and it climbs at a very constant rate to much higher than I can see without any detectable deceleration. Rolling all the way.

IMAC-type patterns are solid. Loops track very well, and snaps are pretty quick but stop immediately upon control release and are easy to keep on a line. Spins break cleanly too.

Knife edge flight was nice, but I think I will go with a stronger servo as it won't quite push up into a vertical with the stock servo.

Slow flight is solid at a fast walking speed. Harriers were not yet very good as I don't have enough elevator throw to push it past flying and into the deep-stall condition. The wing would simply keep trying to fly. I currently have about 25* on high rates and with more throw it will push into that regime.

The manual-recommended 12* of elevator throw is very good for IMAC-type and general flying. There seemed to be a bit of yaw coupling but I was also fighting an out-of-position elevator half (bad tx programming on my part) so I think that contributed to the problem. For mixes I will likely start at 7% top aileron to rudder, and 5% up elevator to rudder, and work from there.

Still working on the best CG, and that will have an effect on the yaw-pitch coupling. The CG on my last flight was right about the middle of the wing tube and it seemed to float a bit better although that also caused it to "hunt" in yaw tracking just a bit.

I really need a few more trim flights and some more setup tweaks before I feel comfortable filming a flight. I will do it as soon as I can however.

In the end this is a very nice plane to fly, it looks great, and really flies like a much larger plane. This sounds cliche but I honestly mean it. Although everything happens faster than the larger planes, it reacts in flight very much like my old reliable 33% Extra but with a huge relative increase in power AND a slower stall speed.

Very nice plane, Tom!

STANG KILLA SS

My Feedback: (1)

BTerry
What servos are you using. I have one with the Power HD 2213 servos all around with dual elevator servo setup. The plane flies very eratic and does not let you fly with any confidence. It just feels like the servos are doing there job. If you get very aggresive with the elevator it want to roll over. Everything seem OK on the ground. I was sure hoping this was going to be a great 3D plane. I will be curious to see if you can get 12 minutes of flight time. That seems like alot for an electric plane of this size.

rctom

Where do you have your CG? I know that it sort of jumps around when the CG is too far back, it smooths out as the CG gets about 1/2" in front of the center of the wing tube. Try moving the battery forward 1/2" at a time.

12 minutes is not at all unreasonable using 3000+ mah batteries. I get 7 minutes and put back 2000 mah.


TF

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I played with my Astroflight Whattmeter a bit last night. At full power I see just under 50A and 650 - 700W, depending on which battery I use. Ironically my 3700 mAh batteries put out more power than my 4000 mAh pack, with the added benefit of weighing an ounce or two less.

At my actual, straight-and-level, cruising-around throttle setting the system pulls 17.5A.

If I take my 4000 mAh battery, I figure I can safely pull 3500 mAh out of it. This is 3.5 Amp-hours, or 210 Amp-minutes. Divide this by my full-throttle setting of 50A and I find I have (210 Amp*min)/(50 Amps) = 4.2 minutes.

For the cruise setting (roughly half throttle stick) I have (210 Amp*min)/(17.5 Amps) = 12 minutes.

Again these numbers are STATIC, and the current draw will drop as the prop loading drops off with an increase in forward speed. Turning a prop at a specific setting requires less power (and is more efficient) when the plane is moving forward.

For 3D flight I typically fly at a lower power setting, and pulse the stick to rev the motor, which provides an extra blast over the control surfaces in some specific attitudes to keep the nose up. IMAC-type flight typically requires more power.

Stang Killa I bought the plane from Tom with the power system/servo combination. It includes some Power-HD servos, but I can't recall exactly which servos they are. They are great for the elevators and ailerons and passable for the rudder, although I think I will switch to the Power HD 2213 like you are using as I find I am fighting a bit of blowback.

As for the CG, I would recommend going with Tom's suggestion as a starting point. Further you should be sure your elevator halves are tracking one another as precisely as possible. Beyond that is is simply a matter of finding the proper amount of elevator travel to force the wing to stall all at once. If the elevator doesn't have enough travel, or if they don't match each other, any plane will fall off to one side or another when entering a harrier. The elevators are very large and will have a large effect if they don't match up.

That being said I would also stick with the recommended 12* elevator travel setting for regular flying based on the size of the elevators. This was just about the right amount of travel for me.

Question: Tom, is your CG recommendation based on the Edge wing or the Slick wing (or both/either)?

Note: My plane, RTF but minus the battery, weighs 42.5 oz. Considering the size of the plane I find this airframe is very light.

jt45255

Ok i recieved my plane today in great shape i might add. after bugging wild hair today for 1 not reading over the directions all the way 2 for being blind and unable to find the servo holes. i have 2 questions 1on the aileron control horns i assume you insert them so the end is flush with the top of the wing . 2 how in the world do u setup duel elevetors!!!

ive never seen that before i have a jr7202 pcm radio for control. it has programable mixes so i hope i can do it with this im not real familuar with computer radios when i was flying as a kid none of it existed heck not even dual rates. so if anyone can help out a newbie id apprecite it.

Jason

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

1: Yes, glue them in flush with the upper surface of the aileron.

2: Do you have the manual for the TX? If not, here is the link: http://h1070250.hobbyshopnow.com/Pro...eli_Manual.pdf

I have a JR 378 transmitter, which was later replaced with your XPS7202. Programming is very similar. Here is what I do. This is generally covered in the manual, starting on PG 55. I haven't used my TX for anything but a simulator for several years and haven't programmed it since before then, so this is from memory.

Plug in the right elevator servo to the ELE slot on the RX. Plug in the left elevator servo to the AUX2 slot. Set up a programmable mix Mix #5 or Mix #6, as they both allow the trim function to work.

Set ELE as the Master, and AUX2 as the Slave. Set the rates to 100%, Set the SW to "ON", and inhibit the AUX 2 input in the Input Select function. OFFSET is used to modify the center position of the SLAVE channel (left elevator in this example). This way you don't need to mess with the sub-trims. Then as I recall I go back to the REVERSE page to set the direction of travel, go to DR/EXP to set up the rates.

I try to keep the "travel adjust" set to 100% and manually adjust the throws at the pushrods. That TX doesn't allow you to adjust the travel for AUX2. It CAN be done using a second mix, but I can't explain that without looking at my TX.

Does that help? I think you will love the plane. It flies great!

jt45255

that helps out alot. i found a similar issue on flying giants .com and it said pretty much the same thing as you did thank you very much . im glade my assumption on the control was corretc(not like i would of had a choice) you wouldnt happen to know wht the control surface deflection is in inches by chance i bought a toll for that but it is in inches and mm and not degrees all of the ones im seeing for sale are a lil pricey.

Jason

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

Yes, don't bother buying another meter if you already have one!

Simply grab a calculator, measure the length of the control surface at the point where you measure it, multiply this length by the SIN of the desired control throw. The output is the deflection measured in inches (or mm, whatever you used to measure the control surface).

For the elevator, the manual say to use 12 degrees for the low-rate throw. Assuming the elevator is 2 inches at the point where we measure the throw, here is the math: (2 inches)* (sine of 12*) = 0.416". For 40 degrees it is (2") * (sine 40) = 1.29".

Setting throws is pretty straight forward this way.

jt45255

I think ill just go ahead and buy a meter that does degrees. are there any ones in perticular that anyone would recomend? Also are there any that can be used on the rudder as well. I really want to make sure i get this plane setup right the first time. i honestly dont have the confidence to do the math route (afraid ill mess it up somehow). any recomendations on expo for this plane ? or anyother little tuning tips for this plane ? im not new to flying but have never had to do much setup before im getting kinda intimadated.

jason

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

No problem.

Here are a few that work well:

http://www.3dhobbyshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=2453

http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=274

http://www.aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=316 (rudder deflection meter - really it is just a protractor)

jt45255

Hi all again my control meters should be here today. Anyone have any recommended starting point on expos for this plane. Also i have read alot about these kinda plans requiring aile to rudder mixing. is this true on this plane? again im in an area that i know littel about.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I don't have any rudd-ail mixing at all yet, I need to fly it a few more times to decide what it needs. It was very straight in knife-edge, didn't need much in the way of aileron correction, maybe 5-7% "top aileron" (aileron in the same direction as rudder). It really doesn't "NEED" any mixing to fly right so don't worry too much about that for the first few flights.

The elevator correction in knife-edge flight is more dependent upon CG location (usually).

For expos, I went with ~30 - 35% on the low rates, and 45% on the high rates. I will tune to fit my fingers, and will probably lower the expo on the low aileron and elevator settings.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I just returned from flying again and have a few thoughts.

KE mix requires ZERO aileron. I set up a variable mix on my Aurora 9 and ended up using 0% mix aileron to rudder. I am still working on the elevator settings and CG point, but I am getting close. This plane is simply locked in under any flight mode. It has a particular "howl" at high speed that is fun to hear as well. The APC prop really sings when it is moving. I did a bunch of full-throttle, low, inverted passes just to enjoy the harmony!

I set my timer for 8 minutes, and flew 8 min 24 sec. I recharged my battery and put 2443 mAh back into it. As this is a 3700 mAh pack I can probably safely fly about 10-11 minutes with a bit of reserve.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

One more thing. The stock motor system turns the APC 12x7E prop at ~9600 rpm.

This calculates to about 580 watts output, which gives right about 83% efficiency (the rest goes to mechanical losses and heat - my 8 year-old wondered what happened to the other 17%). This is pretty good considering the output.

The static thrust calculates to about 6#. I will put a scale on it to verify, but this is a great number. The plane with my BIG batteries (4S 3700 mAh LiPo) is 57 oz rtf = 3.56 lbs, with 700 watts input gives 196 watts/lb (input). Needless to say this gives fast vertical climbs to well beyond the limits of sight.

Typically 100 watts/lb is enough for strong climbs, so we have nearly TWICE that amount!

Note I do not recommend running at full wide-open throttle for more than 10-15 seconds as it starts to get hot after that. The motor seems to hold up well under slightly lower power settings, reserving full power for vertical climbs.

This plane is a very strong IMAC practice plane! I do all my flying at a local field that is about 200x250 yards and the plane will easily stay in that space. It truly flies like a much larger plane.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

After flying this plane again I am going to revise my expo on the elevator and change it to about 15-20% on the low range, and will need to decide what to do on the high rate - I will probably get closer to 55% on the high.

The low rates were just too soft around neutral, but things got a bit "jumpy" flying fast on high rates. I have the throws set up per the manual.

For mix, skip the AIL-RUDD mix completely. There is so little aileron correction required that it isn't even worth the effort. Maybe about 1/2% mix on the ailerons.

Get the CG at about 1/2" forward of the CENTER of the wing tube and everything is pretty close.

I want to get some in-flight pictures and videos soon. The plane looks very nice in the air and is just rock solid. I really like it!

jt45255

great info to know.well i guess with my 4000mah 4s it will be a bullet. plane is finally built and will post picks. need to work on getting the cg right. also i have noticed that it seems like i can not get the recomended high rate settings right i have to max out servo travel to 125% which is maxed out for my jr 7202 so i have some tinkering yet to do. must be nice to go flying in feb. waiting on another 7in of snow on top of the 4 from sat.

Jonathan Ott

My Feedback: (25)

Looks good with those graphics JT!

jt45255

Thanks, i figured i would try to look like the bigboys.the graphics are from B&E Graphix. which i must say they were very helpful they didnt have a pkg listed for this size plane but they scaled down the ones for the bigboys for me. sent me a preview and let me make any changes i wanted. Great service would highly recommend.

Jason

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I second that, your plane looks very nice!

CYCLONEMAN55

Spent some time going over my Edge 540 last night and discovered that the wings did not have the same amount of incidence on each side. The trailing edge of the right wing was an 1/8" below the leading edge. The left wing was 3/16" off. I measured two of my other planes ( 3DHS 70" Slick, PA 58" MX) and there wings were level with the canopy deck. I elongated the holes for the wing pins and leveled the wings to the canopy deck on the Edge 540. I then glued a new piece of ply with the 1/4" hole for the wing pin. I hope this helps the flying of this plane. I also feel like the rudder is a little weak in knife edge flight. I have a 64oz servo on the rudder. That should be plenty. I would be curious to know if any one else has had the same problems.
Lee Mitchell

rctom

Have never had any reports of issues with wing incidence, I'm very curious about whether that change you made makes a difference.

It's pretty simple to convert the rudder to pull-pull, that would likely give you more rudder authority. It's a big rudder and the little servos are really being pushed to their limit.

You can drill a hole through the area where the control horns is mounted and install a 2"-2.5" long piece of 4-40 or 6-32 threaded rod with nuts and washers on either side. You'll need to cut slots in the fuse side for the cables, the servo tray is already installed to allow this.

I had a local customer report that this made a big difference for his style of flying.

TF

Han2007

Tom, have tried this plane with a glow engine yet? and if so what engine would you recommend?

Thanks!!!

rctom

No note yet, only because I don't have a muffler that seems like it would fit.

Based on the weight an OS 25FX should haul it fine, but based on size maybe a .40 or .46 would be better. I hope to try it soon.

TF

jt45255

Congrats on the great review in this months fly rc magazine. i thought i had done my home work in picking wild hair products. and i did they gave this plane rave reviews. just need to wait for the ground to dry up and up well go.