kochj

Aeroworks Ultimate - Winner of 2009 Futaba XFC Championships!

OHH boy....
THis one may be the main reason to purchase this sim....
I have been practicing Nols routine but haven't have a good ultimate
to practice with....

I wonder how close this one will be to the real thing??

da Rock

Expansion Pack 7 ???????????

I thought six just came out?

Where did you get this info?

kochj

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZGP4&P=3


Tower's Low Price
$32.99

Stock Status
(Estimated)
Late May

johndou

"FEATURES: Access to all flying sites and all aircraft choices originally
included On RealFlight Add-Ons volumes 1-6
Adds 17 new aircraft-13 new airplanes, 3 new rotary wings, and three
new flying sites
On the Shooting Gallery site, flyers who are tired of having their
wings clipped by Loopin' Louie can pull up a single-player target
practice game and brush up on their marksmanship before the next
combat event"

What does that mean? "Access to all flying sites and all aircraft choices originally included On RealFlight Add-Ons volumes 1-6" So, if I buy Expansion Pack 7 I get everything that's included in expansion packs 1 thru 6??? What am I missing???

da Rock

I'd say you didn't notice they were talking about Add-Ons, and you're thinking about Expansion Packs.

dbcisco

The add-ons are free!
They are adding in already free stuff as a bonus.

da Rock

Call it a bonus if you think it is.

They didn't call it anything. It appears they're simply informing as to what's in the package.

johndou

I caught the "Add-Ons". There are 6 Expansion Packs - but only 5 Add-Ons.

I see it as a blatant act designed to confuse the average new buyer. RealFlight is selling Expansion Pack 7 - what better way to get more sales then by telling potential buyers that they'll also get everything included in Add-Ons 1 through 6? Especially given the fact that there are only 5 Add-Ons ... that are a free download from both RealFlight websites and KnifeEdge websites.

Sorry, just seems to me to be another one of their deceptive sales tactics.

kochj

I paid FOr ALL OF MY G4 1-5 add ons @30$ a piece!....
The reason why they included them was because they couldn't get them to work in G5!! (or g4.5, I forget)

They were suppost to work but didn't!!
So instead of making all new sets of disks and trying to get them out to UPSET customers
they gave them away!....

NO WHERE on the G5 product WEBSITE does it say FRE 1-6 add ons!!.

ONLY says 1-5 downloads...when you go to the download page....
Hell, it doesn't EVEN advertise that they give you the 1-5 add ons for free or at all, unless it was a misprint on a Pruduct
Packaging??

You should know what your talking about before you start FLippn off ILL informed
unreasonable statements!....

Good luck trying to make Realflight out to being a BAD company...

johndou

If you paid for Add-Ons 1,2,3,4 & 5 then they don't work on your G4. The only Add-Ons that work on G4 and above are the free downloads available here: http://www.realflight.com/free-g4-add-ons.html

Umm, the G5 website says; "RealFlight Add-Ons 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 have been reworked for use with RealFlight G4, G4.5 and G5. Even better, they are available as free downloads!"

So, why claim that Expansion Pack 7 gives you "access" to them? And, why claim that there are 6 Add-Ons instead of only 5?

Because in doing so they cause confusion and give the "average" buyer the impression that he's getting something that he's not. I find it disturbing that they claim to give you access to all 6 Add-Ons if you purchase Expansion Pack 7 - it makes it sound like you're getting all 6 of the products that came previously. The fact is that there are only 5 Add-Ons. All 5 are "old technology" originally developed for G2. Everything contained in them is of a lower quality both with regards to graphics and flight performance or physics. I can't see why anyone would spend money on them.

Where am I "ILL informed"? What "unreasonable statements" have I made?

I don't have to make RealFlight out to be a "BAD company" - they can do that all on their own.

dbcisco

Ditto

RF isn't alone. lots of companies do the same unethical (IMHO) thing.
Lots of other, possibly better, sims out there to choose from.
RF is to RC sims what Windows is to Operating Systems:
The most visible but not the best or cheapest.

kochj

THe only place it says "Access to all flying sites and all aircraft choices originally
included On RealFlight Add-Ons volumes 1-6"
Is on Tower Hobbies....
Simple Misprint!....
Not on the main webpage yet....Happens all the time....

G2? Not sure what that was....but G 3.5 didn't even have 3D....I think you are confused with
the ORIGINAL ADD ON's and the NEW G4 add ons!!! COMPLETELY different!...

It sounds as if YOU are basing your judgement off of the ORIGINAL G2???
HUGE difference...

What sim is better than real flight??
let me know....
All the ones I have downloaded (the sim demo's) don't seem all that good...

Realflight can't get the sounds of the engines to do the "VRRip, VRRIp" when doing a rolling manuver....
Other than that...It is pretty good...

The sounds on the others are quite bad...
Perhaps the total package/flight behavior are better than the realflight??

THe more I think about the changes in realflight the less I am impressed....
They haven't done really anything too different since the change from G3.5 -G4...or even G5....
added some tinker toy add ons but never added the things that really make it realistic...
Like engine sounds and realistic power. Very good, but needs updated material

I haven't seen any others do much better though...

dbcisco

Aerofly Pro Deluxe, Aerofly 5, Reflex XTR 5.03, Pre-Flight, Phoenix....

None can match RF for being more of an on-line game than a sim though.
None of them require an insanely expensive computer to run either.

johndou

It may have been a simple typo. The words have since been removed from the Tower discription. But, typically Tower simply copies the discription that's on the packaging. Of course since the only people to see the packaging for Expansion Pack 7 are the people at Tower - I gotta go with what they say. I guess since they've removed the words we won't see it on the package??

You couldn't be more wrong. G3.5 has only 5 photo fields. G3.0 had only 3. All of the other fields included with those additions were 3D fields. So, to say that G3.5 had no 3D is completely wrong.

Add-Ons 1 through 5 are the same product whether you buy the product off the shelf or download it from RealFlight's website - EXCEPT FOR ONE LITTLE DIFFERENCE - the files that are available for free download from the RealFlight site have been reworked to be compatible with G4.0, G4.5 and G5. Other then that it's the same content.

I won't debate you about which sim is best, I'm sure their are plenty of people that will argue that RealFlight is not even among the top 3. RealFlight puts out a good product. But, their Business Ethics, Upgrade Policy, Tech Support and General Business Managament along with their personel leave a lot to be desired.

Take - as an example - the "addition" in Expansion Pack 7: "On the Shooting Gallery site, flyers who are tired of having their wings clipped by Loopin' Louie can pull up a single-player target practice game and brush up on their marksmanship before the next combat event."

This is something that the owners of G5 have asked for since it's introduction - just check the KnifeEdge site to see how many requests for this there have been!!! But, instead of simply "fixing" this oversight by the software developers they're asking everyone who has asked for this feature to spend more money to get it. Sound fair to you?



RealFlight is rather slow at making changes to their product that improve it's performance. In previous versions they have specifically "dumbed down" the software to make the flying experience "easier" and hence more enjoyable for a new flyer. They actually took away some physics features in G3.5 that made the sim more realistic. Like, P-factor torque on take-off. Or, a sharp stall tendency with high performance tapered wing models. Now with G5 if you place the sim in the advanced mode you can still experience these physics tendencies. But, why did they take it out of their sim in the first place? Because the planes were too hard to fly for a new pilot.

RealFlight isn't much more then a sales aid for Hobbico and GreatPlanes models. If the P-51 is too hard to fly in the sim then most "new" pilots will never buy it. Make it easy to fly in the sim and more people will buy it ... So, RealFlight makes it easy to fly ... and sales increase. Is that really what you want from a sim?

kochj

Alrighty then....
G3-didn't have 3D.....

The things you say makes perfect sense...
Butttttt,
I personally LIKE to be able to fly the planes I currently own on the SIM..

I learned how to fly, and flew SOLO off a Lake with a sea-master and OS .46FX engine.. Successfully
Without, any prior flight or any kind of flying (well perhaps a kite) prior to learning how on the G3 sim....

I have since learned everything I know my G 3.5,,,
From 3D, to IMAC...I have learned it all on the sim, prior to actually doing it on the real thing....

Being that is all I know, I can't help but be Bias.....

I have however thought about upgrading my sim to G5...., but have always thought about getting the AERO fly sim, but when I downloaded
there demo, a couple years ago, I didn't think it was all that great... Perhaps it was a dif sim///??

Realflight needs some all-important upgrades to there engine sounds and engine packages.... Period...
I have yet to fly other sims (I wish I could) so I don't know any better....

kochj

As far as service goes....
I had a issue with on of there install cd's
They sent out a new sim disk w/o any issues...

I recently sent a email explaing that I lost the CodeKey for my original G3 add on with the GIant aeromaster,
because the case was missing...

There Tech support emailed me that same day with a KEY COde listed in the email...

NO Q's Asked!....

Thay to me is VERY GOOD CS!....

No complaints on that end...

dbcisco

Here is the demo of Phoenix [link=http://www.phoenix-sim.com/demo.htm]Phoenix demo[/link]

I don't like Phoenix for the same reasons I didn't like their FS-One, not enough aircraft and no user created ones.

I liked AFPD very much but there is no demo available for their new Aerofly 5.

I have Reflex XTR but don't like the newer version with the "playstation" type controller.

I like RF G4 but not the newer versions and I don't trust KE anymore.

I have used them all and constantly return to FMS because I don't do 3D and I found over 600 different planes for it including about 40 WWI planes. Wish I had spent the money I spent on fancy sims (close to $1000) on planes instead.

kochj

Thanks for the info.

johndou

I'm not sure why you feel that G3 didn't have any 3D. It did (does). If you're talking 3D graphics it had several 3D flying fields - most of them were 3D. If you're talking 3D flying capabilities or physics it has that as well. It contains Gary Wright's E3D. A very capable little 3D electric. It also contains the Yak-54 in the Russian Thunder Paint scheme of aerobatic pilot Eric Beard. Plus, there's an electric CAP 232 set-up for 3D flight. Not to mention the half dozen or so Heli's.

The development of G3 was completed in just months after Jim Bourke was brought on board KnifeEdge Software as their General Manager, by Scott Kemp. Many people feel that it was the best product ever released from KnifeEdge. If you look at the changes made to the product since G3 you can see why.

G3.5 added night flying, carnival rides and games. G4 added water which still doesn't react properly to the planes or heli's. G4.5 added better ground handling physics, more "sounds" and voice chat for Multiplayer. And, of course G5 added guns rockets and the ability to shoot down another plane/heli. In all cases with the additions came some take-aways. We lost several physics features, the R/C games (developed for and used by many R/C clubs), Friends and flying partners were lost along the way because none of the versions are compatible with any other version ... even someone owning G5 can not fly "online" with anyone not using his exact version. G5.0.032 can only fly in Multiplayer sessions with others who own 5.0.032.

RealFlight has a very nice product - it has numerous problems, but it's still a good product. I think that KnifeEdge has lost their way with the development of RealFlight and need to get back to improving the product and fixing it's many problems and spend less time developing games with rockets and guns. It would be nice to have a sim that actually does what it says it'll do.

Of course RealFlight will do everything it says that it'll do ... if you have a top of the line Gaming computer, experience with flying a lot of different models and the understanding of how and why they fly differently. Plus, of course, a good understanding of how to change those features in a computer program to make the model fly properly. And, you'll need some patience while KnifeEdge works out the bugs from their latest release. With G4.5 that took about 15 upgrades over a 6 month time period. G5 came out in Oct and it still has "hitching" and multiplayer connection issues ... not to mention a plethora of minor annoyances. But, as you've pointed out - they were still able to develop and release Expansion Pack 7.

dbcisco

That explains alot. Realflight went downhill as a sim from then on.
Funny that they seem to put more effort into marketing and expension packs than the core product. Knifeedge also seems to have no clue about networking. Not having upgrades communicate is below even amateur level network programming. Considering that the on-line gaming features are becoming most of their products focus, the least they could do is learn how to network computers.
My money is on Aerofly 5 and Phoenix taking most of their RC market share in the next couple years.

johndou

Well, I'm not so sure that'll happen. I'd like to see Aerofly and Phoenix take a larger market share. But, When RealFlight has the financial backing of GreatPlanes and Hobbico, I don't see how Aerofly or Phoenix can compete.

If there were a level playing field then Aerofly and Phoenix would probably be on top now. Pitting a few small software companies against each other for the relatively small market share that comprises the R/C Sim market would lead to better sims for all. But, when you have one small software company that has the finanacial backing of a large corporation like Hobbico it kind of changes the way the game is played.

If KnifeEdge had to compete with sims like Aerofly and Phoenix one on one and I thnk you'd see a completely different product from them. When you have the heavy marketing ties of a company like Hobbico behind you, that sees your product as a conduit to selling more of their products, the RealFlight Sim becomes the sales tool to bring in more customers. Virtually all of the planes featured in RealFlight come from Hobbico - one way or another. The same was true with FSOne and Hangar9.

I just think that RealFlight should stop catering to the "kids" on their forums and start developing a quality sim like they used to do before GreatPlanes, Hobbico and others took them in the wrong direction.

dbcisco

Hobbico Et Al seem to have a virtual monopoly on RC.
I shouldn't complain, to make a long story short my annoyance with them got me into building my own planes.

kochj

I didn't take the time to go and run upstairs to see wich version I started out with.

It was one of the first..
G2 perhaps...

I looked on my computer ap. and it says G3.5 so it I guess it was G2....
G2 didn't have ANY 3-D FLying capability... I flew the heck out of that one...
G3-G4 I flew so much the controler is toast

I can get a new one for 60$...From hobbico..

johndou

Since you brought it up ... that's another issue I have with RealFlight, the cost of repairing/replacing their "controller". As you're aware the "controller" is not a real radio, it's nothing more then the "interlink" designed to prevent software piracy. It has very little electronics inside and can not be used as a radio at your local flying field. Yet, they expect you to pay $60.00 to have it repaired when it fails!!?

You can buy a complete 6 channel 2.4Ghz Transmitter WITH a reciever from NitroModels for $45.00!! Of course the RealFlight "interlink" is made by Futaba so it must cost more ... The Futaba radio that the interlink is based on only sells for $130.00 - including a reciever. But then, with that $130 price you get the electronics, an LCD screen, six model memory and a small speaker for alarms. With RealFlight you get the case, switches and gimbles ... AND, if the REAL controller ever fails or needs repair it'll cost you $50.00 for a replacement.

RealFlight charges you more then the actual interlink would cost new if you were to buy it - just for repair/replacement. They seem to want to make a profit by re-selling you something that you've already paid for once.

I've had my interlink replaced once when it broke. I won't do that again. It's much cheaper and just makes more sense to simply buy a "cheap" radio that can be used at the field (and with RealFlight) then to give RealFlight more money for an interlink that doesn't last and has no real use - other then as the interlink for RealFlight.

kochj

I have tried my real radio with realflight, and I still get Issues with trim changing when I change from high to low rates. or vise versa.

A bit irratating to say the least..