DamonR

This is Todd's SAP 180 powered Extra 300.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRM8_KY43_s[/youtube]

Cody-RCU

Matt,

Thanks for all the help so far in setting the airplane up. One more quick question:

On your cowl, in some of the earlier pictures you had a very small cut-out for just the spark plug and wire. In some of the later pictures the cutout was a good bit bigger. Is this because the engine needed more cooling, or did it need clearance for the movement of the engine due to the soft mount? I have the cowl cut minimally now (like in your earlier pictures), and was wondering if I should open it up more or leave it as is.

Thanks,

Cody

MTK

Cody,

In my set-up, the sparkplug socket interfered with the cowling. In order to clear with no touching, I increased the hole size but probably went a little overboard. The fins of the head only touched the cowl in front so the hole could have been smaller. When I get back to playing with this model in the fall, I will probably add a shroud on the cowl to close the hole off and improve air flow

Definitely use baffling on the two large inlets to re-direct as much of the air flow as possible onto the engine fins. Cooling the SAP and any gasoline engine is critical

tIANci

Just picked mine up a couple of days back, she is lovely. I am surprised that the wings have a thin airfoil and they are light. Mine will be EP and I shall see how she weighs when she is ready. So what servos are you guys using?

MTK

If you want a 3D set-up, use 100 in-oz torque and at least 0.14 sec transit for everything except rudder and engine. Rudder should be at least 200 ozinch and maybe a little slower is okay. Engine, uses something small but for EP you don't need anything

Cody-RCU

The manual recommends 120 oz-in on all surfaces. I have 7985mg's; they're fast and powerful (172 oz-in and .13s). The manual also recommends these. One person reported blowback with 985mg's on the ailerons, but the 7985mg is digital and has higher holding torque.

So Matt, I have only 172 oz-in on the rudder and full 3D throws, which goes against your recommendation. If I have any blowback I'll let you guys know.

MTK

Cody,

I use 8411 on rudder on 6 volts but have not flown the rig on 3D rates. I use Spektrum servos everywhere else all digital but not all coreless. Engine uses a lesser JR I forget which...probably a 4031 analog from 20 years ago.

The plane flies fine on this set-up for pattern type flying. BUT I don't plan to change anything when I get around to flying it in 3D type set-up

Cody-RCU

Flew mine about ten or twelve flights...man this thing is awesome! Great blend of 3D and precision. I have never flown an airplane that's this stable and controlled in 3D, and the precision is, as you all know, is fantastic.

Here are some short answers with my servos:

Yes, 172 oz-in is enough on the rudder. KE loops were no problem. This is with a 3.5" horn, almost as much throw as I could get (about 1/4" clear of the elevators).

However, it's not enough on the ailerons, which is kind of crazy.

Here's a more detailed write-up over on, umm, "LARGES IN FLIGHT"

http://tinyurl.com/23dr45e

kochj

I have been on the fence for some time....
I have thought about the price difference between a plane like this and a GP 1.60 Ultimate, cap 232, or the Sooky....
All said and done....
The EF 78" is Double the price of the previous listed....
620$ shipped (I believe it is an additional 20$ for the shipping of CF gear)
I want the CF gear and have some, but not sure if the ones I have will work...

I can pick up the GP sooky for 320$ shipped... (400$ -60$clube membership and -20(rebate)
That is a big difference.... but I think the EF 78" is worth it....
My only grip is the hinges....I would rather have the RObart with the wire or brass pins in them.

That way if I make a mess of the aircraft, I can always remove the control surfaces for fixes and recovering..

My guess is that the Ef extra 78" is a smaller version of the 150cc version that will be out in the US end of flying season for most...
Next flying season for everyone else...

I want there 2M pattern plane, but I believe I can do everything with this 3d/Imac 2Meter as well...

Side note
These planes look big for there size....
I saw there 70" extra at the field last week, and I thought it was there 78" Extra....
with a custom covering job....(orage and blue)

I might place my order tonight...

kochj

wonder what would be suitable for a pipe (I will not use a pitts, or wrap muffler, I refuse...)
One of ther reasons for getting this plane is to use the tunnel...

Evolution tuned pipe (pull the end off and get more power out of it will little to no effect on sound)
or a 40G ES composite pipe??

Will be running either a 45cc Evolution or a zdz40f3a....( almost certain the zdz40)

I really like the evolution engines.
Perhaps I could use there can/header combo, and use a 3-blade prop....
It would REALy quite things down this way....
Althought the evo 45gx is a light engine, the ignition is bit-of a tank that places it in the DA50r catogory in weight...

THis might not be the way to go....
I believe this would place and additional pound on the plane (all said-n-done)

I am quite confident that the 45cc evo can be used on a 50cc plane and be right up there with the 50cc on stock exhuast....

MTK...
Any thoughts???

kochj

Thanks for the info, but didn't see any extra info about the ailerons...??
What do mean "not enough"??
Not enought clearance???
Something not flying right with the wings??

OR do you mean the 172oz of torque isn't enough on the airlerons????

How quiet is in on a pipe???

Thinking about a 3blade on a zdz40f3a...??
would this not give enough power for pulling out???

Most have said that the 3-blade doesn't take away any power/torque on most engines.... ??

Mtk....You have info on this I KNOW you do.....
THanks..

Cody-RCU

Ailerons:

With full surface deflection (40 degrees, I think) 172 oz-in is not enough. If you used a shorter arm and set it up for less travel you could probably get away with 172 oz-in. Otherwise upgrade to the 7955 servos for the ailerons.

Engine/exhaust:

I'm flying mine with the Syssa SAP-180 with the ES composites pipe, on a Xoar 18x8. It's very quiet; makes about as much noise as a 40 sized glow trainer, maybe a little less. At a Huckfest somebody asked me if it was electric. This is with it turning quite high (about 9000 rpm) with it hard-mounted. Lower RPM's with a soft mount will make it even quieter, but for me it's plenty quiet.

You lose significant efficiency when using a 3-blade prop. IMHO on any engine smaller than 150cc it's a waste of power. The Xoar is pretty quiet, the Vess 18x6 pulls harder out of a hover but is louder and doesn't give enough speed for good precision.

Airframe:

The hinges are not pre-installed. If you wanted to retrofit other hinges it would certainly be possible.

Other airframes:

Don't even bother with the Great Planes stuff. I have flown the Sukhoi, and it was pretty lousy. I haven't flown the Cap or Ultimate, but I have no qualms saying that the EF Extra is miles ahead of them. It flies better than most 50cc airplanes, in fact. This plane has no peer in its size.

1bwana1

Three of us met out at the field today with our 78" Extras for the purpose of test flying proposed IMAC sequences for the 2011 season. We flew three or four proposals each from Sportsman, Intermediate, Advanced, and Unlimited. What we are looking for is how well the sequences flow, whether the difficulty is reasonable, and whether the footprint and positioningmakes sense. The proposals vary from too easy, tostupid difficult. The way we do this is, one guy calls, and the pilot flies having never seen the sequence. You can imagine that this can get difficult and stressfull in the more advanced classes. I can tell you that the EF 78" Extra is the perfect platform for this kind of thing. It is stable, yet agile, and you can fly slowly enough that it is real confidence booster even in diffucult figures with some real busy elements. Unbeleivable that a plane of this size, flies so well. Makes being a Guinnie Pig fun!

kochj

I placed my order on this BIzzatch... Red, BLk,White scheme...
Be here by next week?...

Which engine ???
ZDZ40f3a or
Evolution 45gx
???????????????


The zdz 40 is like new...very little run time on it...
The 40f3a is lighter...
I like the evolution more although I haven't ran that one yet....
I really like the technology that has gone into the evolution gas engine line... mainly the 50cc & above....sizes...

I can go with a CF pipe or Alum...

MTK.........
Could you post some video of you engine running on the ES pipe???

thanks..

kochj

I watched the vid with D. rosentha....
that is a Very quiet setup indeed...
Except that anoying, load chainsaw, running on the pitts line!....
It stops about half way through.

YOu have the ES composite right?

kochj

Matt,
not sure if you have the zdz40 still or not....but I was trying to figure out if you need a strait header
or a drop??
options are
1. 0 drop
2. 25mm drop
3. 50mm drop

Do you have any idea what it would be to match up with a ES 40g pipe to the tunnel..???

THanks..

MTK

I do.... I will try to install the ZDZ40 in the EFExtra this winter. Don't know which header, the 0mm or the 50mm. I have both. I use the 60mm (2 1/4") on the SAP 180HP, so it is likely the 50mm would be perfect.

kochj

Got to tell you, that I am not all that impressed with Extreme Flights Customer service...

Ordered the 78" on Friday @NOON last week...
Tommorow will be THURSDAY.... well it will be midnight in 7 min...so it is Thursday now...
That is going on FIVE Business days and still NO shipment of the plane...
Spoke with them today about not receiving a tracking # and was told they were backlogged....
I guess they were...
No tracking # tonight in email..
I hate speding money, let alone having to spend money, and wait for a product...
Makes me have 2nd thoughts, about purchase....I already have enough planes...

I may rethink this purchase...and abandon ship...

kochj

dang....
Called today, and they already shiped it....


Matt,
How much coupling does this thing have in knife edge??

Cody-RCU

Very little. Mixed mine out with about 2% elevator, 3-4% aileron.

kochj

If the one I receive is all wing Inc. jacked and looks like it was built
In Jethro's woodshed; well, lets just say I will be very disappointed...

I will be finding out just how good EF CS is suppose to be...

kochj

Those mixes are speed dependent....
Dosn't the JR 12x have some throttle point mixes that helps that??
I am not sure about the FUtaba 14channel..
being it is Windows based one could always add that...??

kochj

Received my plane as promised on Monday from Ef....
Nice plane...

Couple of comments:

The plane is built very lightweight. From the way it was advertised, I had thought there was going to be
CF stringers and other things, but there was only 1-set of CF rods on the bottom of the plane...Not sure what would matter with addition of other cf parts..
I do however, think that the Firewall is built very lightweight...Perhaps this is the way it is in pattern planes as well.
I’m used to overbuilt things, so my knowledge of this area is limited...at best..
I felt my zdz40f3a really knocked my CG 1.20 size yak to bits....but I don't think you
want to run any engine on a plane with it's wings off..
Could this plane take that engine w/o a soft mount???
I guess the question is why???? Making those soft mounts is a PITA! But don't want to drop 200$ for a Hyde mount...

I feel the firewall and engine mount could use some CF to lighten and strengthen things up....

I checked in Incidence dif. between the two main wings....
I believe they were off a few degrees...I don't take a pict of write it down...I will do that next...
Perhaps some else could take a look at my picts and tell me if I am doing it right.... (Using the incidence meter that is)

I also have a set of CF landing gear made byGraphtech, that is wider than stock, and May even be heavier, so not sure
What I will do....

The zdz40f3a need a drop.... just not sure how to tell how much...Anyone knows how to figure out degrees of drop of header??

vbortone

My Feedback: (2)

Finally I finished mine. Here some pictures. I am using Scorpion F3A and CC 80 ICE HV controller. I am planning to use 21x13 W APC prop on first flight. I wanted to fly it today but winds are 45-50 mph today in Kansas City. I just run the motor and power is incredible. It is pulling over 80 amps so looks like I need to limit the WOT or replace the controller. Total weight including pilot and instrument panel is 12 lb 11 oz. I replaced the stock landing gear with a Bolly. I am using TP 5300 mah that is 40.1 oz. I am using to RX batteries TP 900 mah and two regulators. Planning to fly using the CG recommended in the manual for first fly. I still can move the battery if I need to adjust. I am including the details of the motor mount and the cooling ducts to make sure the rear of the motors gets enough cooling.

Cody-RCU

Nice job! Your motor box looks fantastic. Is that a PilotX?

I have found that with this airplane you can fly with the CG fairly far forward without compromising 3D. Mine is just a little bit ahead of neutral (what I like for sequences) and it is still the most capable airplane in 3D that I own.