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Dragon wing failure.

Old 08-19-2010, 07:08 PM
  #226  
Airplanes400
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Not to be to inquisitive, but all of your jets are ducted fan right? You don't own a turbine jet do you? If so your not waivered are you? The reason I ask is that you are all of the sudden posting a lot on the jet forums and based on your comments you really don't seem to know much about the community.
Sorry Andy ... but nice try.

I fly R/C turbine jets. I usually try to avoid these forums because they are filled with inconsequential topics, but this topic regards safety and quality. So it caught my attention/concern, and I had to write.

I also avoid flying my planes / jets at events. But I do go to some of them from time to time and I do keep up with the latest equipment. I'd rather fly quietly, and within my own flying field. I'm not the 'show' type of person. The less planes in the air, the better. I usually fly on weekdays. Almost never on weekends.
Old 08-19-2010, 07:54 PM
  #227  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

To all,

I have reached an agreement with skymaster and will be getting a new dragon, they are working on a new way to attach the wings as well as a new canopy latch. I will post pictures of the new dragon and the differences once i get it. I Know I can do a few mods. and have an airplane for a long time but I do feel I should not have to do them. It took a few e-mails and many post but they are doing the right thing at the end.

Anton,

You should really consider getting on the forum to assure people things are being done to fix the problems.

Thanks to all.
Albert
Old 08-19-2010, 07:56 PM
  #228  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Good news Albert!

Jim
Old 08-19-2010, 08:18 PM
  #229  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Not to be to inquisitive, but all of your jets are ducted fan right? You don't own a turbine jet do you? If so your not waivered are you? The reason I ask is that you are all of the sudden posting a lot on the jet forums and based on your comments you really don't seem to know much about the community.
Sorry Andy ... but nice try.

I fly R/C turbine jets. I usually try to avoid these forums because they are filled with inconsequential topics, but this topic regards safety and quality. So it caught my attention/concern, and I had to write.

I also avoid flying my planes / jets at events. But I do go to some of them from time to time and I do keep up with the latest equipment. I'd rather fly quietly, and within my own flying field. I'm not the 'show' type of person. The less planes in the air, the better. I usually fly on weekdays. Almost never on weekends.
So you don't have a waiver? But you fly turbine jets.
Old 08-19-2010, 08:20 PM
  #230  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: as722

To all,

I have reached an agreement with skymaster and will be getting a new dragon, they are working on a new way to attach the wings as well as a new canopy latch. I will post pictures of the new dragon and the differences once i get it. I Know I can do a few mods. and have an airplane for a long time but I do feel I should not have to do them. It took a few e-mails and many post but they are doing the right thing at the end.

Anton,

You should really consider getting on the forum to assure people things are being done to fix the problems.

Thanks to all.
Albert
Now that this has been done, Anton really needs to come ont he forums and tell everyone what they are doing to correct the matter.
Old 08-19-2010, 08:44 PM
  #231  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Not to be to inquisitive, but all of your jets are ducted fan right? You don't own a turbine jet do you? If so your not waivered are you? The reason I ask is that you are all of the sudden posting a lot on the jet forums and based on your comments you really don't seem to know much about the community.
Sorry Andy ... but nice try.

I fly R/C turbine jets. I usually try to avoid these forums because they are filled with inconsequential topics, but this topic regards safety and quality. So it caught my attention/concern, and I had to write.

I also avoid flying my planes / jets at events. But I do go to some of them from time to time and I do keep up with the latest equipment. I'd rather fly quietly, and within my own flying field. I'm not the 'show' type of person. The less planes in the air, the better. I usually fly on weekdays. Almost never on weekends.
So you don't have a waiver? But you fly turbine jets.
Yes, yes, yes ... that's it ... You busted me Andy! Geeze, and I thought I would get a way with it, damn!! Don't report me! Don't report me!!

Ahh ... seriously now Andy, I'm just messin' with you now. I didn't feel I needed to answer all your ridiculous questions or statements. Again ... nice try.

And like I said in another post ... there are many people who don't deserve a waiver. I've seen some crummy landings done with jets that beginners do with 40 sized trainers. When you move up to jets, you should be able to compentently do cross-wind landings and glide your jet in smoothly 99% of the time. I've seen guys slam their jet in or stall it on takeoff or landing. I'd pull their waiver for that alone!
Old 08-19-2010, 08:58 PM
  #232  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

case in point of someone not qualified to fly turbine ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kl5T...eature=related

F18 RC Jet Crash 12-06-2008 DVD
Old 08-19-2010, 09:07 PM
  #233  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


ORIGINAL: icepilot

Well, I have several hundred hours on my 3 SM jets, and there are a lot of pilots here in Norway that fly SM jets everytime we are at our field. None of them have ever fallen apart, they are not flown gentile and they are great planes. I am not a rep, not sponsored and I have never reinforced any of my SM models. Contrary to your ramblings, I know these planes and I know what I am talking about - but I doubt that you are a person that can be discussed with in a sensible manner so I will end my engagement in this matter here..
Hi Icepilot,
I'm glad you have had safe flights with your SM jets. I really hate to see them crash no matter who the manufacturer is. People put a lot of money and time into these things. I hate to see all that go to waste .. for any reason ... even pilot error.

I'm sure you saw that lousy 'factory' aluminum wing tab glue job on one of the SM Dragons. Something like that should have never been put in the market. Obviously, SM lets anything go out their door. Now we have a rash of these planes coming apart in the sky !!!

In most products these days, ''Made in China'' has meant same quality, lower price. In the case of SM, ''Made in China'' means cheap quality, bad engineering, low price ...

I have very high standards for something that is going 200+ mph. The g's that these jets are capable of, and endure, would cause a human to 'black out'. A 90° bank at a constant altitude can put as much as 4 g's on an aircraft structure, and a hard landing can be 2 or more. Since these models weigh anywhere from 18 to 35 pounds, a 'g' force of 6 would be as if the plane weighed 108 to 210 pounds. That is what the minimum stress capability of these planes should be. Fiberglass is not capable of this. SM jets do not have the proper structure or reinforcing. Their aluminum wing tab is a joke.

Then I guess the past 20+ years of fiberglass fuselage / all composite jets/airplanes that have been flying and are made majorily from FIBERGLASS are all "ghost" planes flying around? The issue isn't "fiberglass" the issue is poor designing.
Old 08-19-2010, 09:29 PM
  #234  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Here's a group of beautiful F-16's. Just thought people may find this interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puz7y...feature=search
Old 08-19-2010, 09:34 PM
  #235  
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Then I guess the past 20+ years of fiberglass fuselage / all composite jets/airplanes that have been flying and are made majorily from FIBERGLASS are all ''ghost'' planes flying around? The issue isn't ''fiberglass'' the issue is poor designing.
Sorry ... I should clarify. Fiberglass is fine, it just needs proper reinforcing with carbon fiber for turbine flight.
Old 08-19-2010, 10:05 PM
  #236  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

Here's a group of beautiful F-16's. Some of these landings are horrible ... the kind a beginner would do with a trainer. Especially the last landing. (landings start at 3 minutes into the video). Someone who flys jets should have better airspeed control, and not drop them in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puz7y...feature=search
These F-16’s were at Top Gun. They were all trying to perform a full-scale like high alpha landing for maximum scoring. This lower speed high alpha landing is not an easy task with the model. The speeds start getting pretty low to get the right decent rate with power on. Many times they are on verge of stalling those 40+ lbs. models. You should give it a try sometime.
I know most of the pilots in that video and I can tell you they are all top notch and if they wanted to, could land those F-16’s like a butterfly with sore feet.
Old 08-19-2010, 10:16 PM
  #237  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


Then I guess the past 20+ years of fiberglass fuselage / all composite jets/airplanes that have been flying and are made majorily from FIBERGLASS are all ''ghost'' planes flying around? The issue isn't ''fiberglass'' the issue is poor designing.
Sorry ... I should clarify. Fiberglass is fine, it just needs proper reinforcing with carbon fiber for turbine flight.

The more you talk, the deeper your hole is getting...
Old 08-19-2010, 10:19 PM
  #238  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: Molnar142


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

Here's a group of beautiful F-16's. Just thought people may find this interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puz7y...feature=search
These F-16’s were at Top Gun. They were all trying to perform a full-scale like high alpha landing for maximum scoring. This lower speed high alpha landing is not an easy task with the model. The speeds start getting pretty low to get the right decent rate with power on. Many times they are on verge of stalling those 40+ lbs. models. You should give it a try sometime.
I know most of the pilots in that video and I can tell you they are all top notch and if they wanted to, could land those F-16’s like a butterfly with sore feet.
Thanks for the details on this video. I realize those landings aren't easy. I wouldn't risk damaging my jets to perform at top gun, or for these high-alpha landings. I know some of those guys too... they are as good as you said.
Old 08-19-2010, 11:24 PM
  #239  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews

Not to be to inquisitive, but all of your jets are ducted fan right? You don't own a turbine jet do you? If so your not waivered are you? The reason I ask is that you are all of the sudden posting a lot on the jet forums and based on your comments you really don't seem to know much about the community.
Sorry Andy ... but nice try.

I fly R/C turbine jets. I usually try to avoid these forums because they are filled with inconsequential topics, but this topic regards safety and quality. So it caught my attention/concern, and I had to write.

I also avoid flying my planes / jets at events. But I do go to some of them from time to time and I do keep up with the latest equipment. I'd rather fly quietly, and within my own flying field. I'm not the 'show' type of person. The less planes in the air, the better. I usually fly on weekdays. Almost never on weekends.
So you don't have a waiver? But you fly turbine jets.
Yes, yes, yes ... that's it ... You busted me Andy! Geeze, and I thought I would get a way with it, damn!! Don't report me! Don't report me!!

Ahh ... seriously now Andy, I'm just messin' with you now. I didn't feel I needed to answer all your ridiculous questions or statements. Again ... nice try.

And like I said in another post ... there are many people who don't deserve a waiver. I've seen some crummy landings done with jets that beginners do with 40 sized trainers. When you move up to jets, you should be able to compentently do cross-wind landings and glide your jet in smoothly 99% of the time. I've seen guys slam their jet in or stall it on takeoff or landing. I'd pull their waiver for that alone!
Whats to report - I could care less about what you do with your models. What is relevant to my inquiry is your lack of experience with turbines. Your not a waivered jet pilot, you don't own any turbines, you really don't have much to offer here except your conjecture which is mostly been proven to be completely wrong. Go back to what you know - PROPS? EDF? and leave these forums to the ones who actually know a little about what they are talking about.

Give us your AMA number and first name and if your on the list you won't here another word from me about it. - if not GO AWAY TROLL>!
Old 08-20-2010, 07:54 AM
  #240  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Whats to report - I could care less about what you do with your models. What is relevant to my inquiry is your lack of experience with turbines. Your not a waivered jet pilot, you don't own any turbines, you really don't have much to offer here except your conjecture which is mostly been proven to be completely wrong. Go back to what you know - PROPS? EDF? and leave these forums to the ones who actually know a little about what they are talking about.

Give us your AMA number and first name and if your on the list you won't here another word from me about it. - if not GO AWAY TROLL>!
Well, aren't you Mr. Funnyman!

Once again Andy ... nice try. But since you don't know me, you have no business falsely attacking me in a poor attempt to discredit me. It just makes you look bad.

Looks like you want definitive answers rather than trying to understand what I'm saying. I belong to a club, so I would have to have a waiver to fly turbines. Matter of fact, I am also an instructor at the club! If that doesn't answer your question, then try this ... YES, I do have a waiver, JERK!! {Awww, did I just give you the equivalent of a body slam?}

More information ... My landings are ALWAYS smooth and picture perfect. I am regularly asked to compete at events but I refuse because;
#1 - The events are long, drawn out, and boring.
#2 - I don't want to fly for the entertainment of spectators.
#3 - I'm not on an ego trip. I just enjoy flying for myself. It's my 'me time' ... my escape from life.
#4 - See #1
#5 - Some events are at high risk to damaging the plane. I prefer not to risk that for points.
#6 - I don't get into excruciating detail on cockpits and interior hatches that have fake plumbing lines and fuse boxes.
#7 - See # 1
#8 - I have a life outside of R/C.

Do you have a waiver, Andy? Most of the time, it's the person who is attacking others that is guilty of the same claim. Do you want to put your AMA number and name up on a public site? I would think not! If you did, that would be foolish. But hey, could you give us your SS#, DOB, dirvers license #, address, and bank account info please?
Old 08-20-2010, 09:28 AM
  #241  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

Whats to report - I could care less about what you do with your models. What is relevant to my inquiry is your lack of experience with turbines. Your not a waivered jet pilot, you don't own any turbines, you really don't have much to offer here except your conjecture which is mostly been proven to be completely wrong. Go back to what you know - PROPS? EDF? and leave these forums to the ones who actually know a little about what they are talking about.

Give us your AMA number and first name and if your on the list you won't here another word from me about it. - if not GO AWAY TROLL>!
Well, aren't you Mr. Funnyman!

Once again Andy ... nice try. But since you don't know me, you have no business falsely attacking me in a poor attempt to discredit me. It just makes you look bad.
I don`t think so. You are really digging a hole here Mr 400
Old 08-20-2010, 09:29 AM
  #242  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400


ORIGINAL: JetsRC

This is really going no where and it is not worth to continue posting on this. Treating people of inept and saying that childs work on this jets is not my idea of a discution and clearly this is going towards a brand slash more than trying to find solutions, with all sort of theories and asumptions that really do not show the reality of things.
Flying all sorts of big planes doesn't make anyone an expert on RC, sorry...

As posted earlier any customers having problems, doubts or any other issue with your SM or XJ models please feel free to contact me directly by email. We will do our best to help you out.

Michel out...
Typical lame attempt to brush off the issue when you are losing. But the issue is real ... SM jets are severely inadequate in design, structure and workmanship. Not assumptions or theories either ... the pictures show the inept workmanship and design of SM jets.

Your response is the same as Antons ... hey, have a problem ... send me an email. Well Mike, the problem seems to be wings and canopies coming off in flight due to poor craftsmanship. What are you going to do for the customer who contacts you AFTER his plane crashed for these reasons? Anything you do is too late then. And don't offer to sell him another plane! Instead, suggest that your customer buy a different brand ... like Yellow, JHH, or BVM.

SM should announce retrofits for all their deficiencies ... just like BVM and Toyota. Even supply the necessary materials to the current owner, or offer for the rep to do the modification. I'd rather have patch on my jet than a jet that slammed into the ground and burst into flames, destroying everything.

Then, SM should immediately upgrade their products with proper workmanship and materials.

I wouldn't fly a Skymaster jet if you gave one to me. I don't want the liability of owning one if one of these can cause property damage or kill someone due to poor quality that causes them to come apart in the air.



Sorry to desagree with you but in no way I am trying to brush off the issue, completely oposite, I am trying to offer help to all those who might have a problem, but I guess some people are not capable of seen this and concentrate in just saying whatever they want.
The easiest way to make this go away is just not to post anything and in a few days the problem will have been forgoten like many other we have all seen posted here from diferent brands, but instead of that we are posting and offering help, but this seems not to be enough for you.

The reason for asking emails is simple, it is easier to track a customers problems or requests that way than to have to search this forums all the time between all this garbage of extra posts. So in a way a customer will get a much better and faster service contacting us directly. And as I said before if email doesn't work with your dealer try a diferent one, there are plenty around th world.

Kit partial or complete replacements or any other solutions will not be given through RCU, it is just not the way we do things. And when a defective part is spoted usually Skymaster makes an anouncment in their web page like the F-16 fin, the F-86 tank configuration and others on earlier models. They always post when they have a problem and the solution.

I hope this thread stops going the way it is going and end in helpping people calrify and solve any issues they have with heir Dragons.

Michel

PS: I have never asked you to fly a SM jet, so really don't think I will be giing you one...
Old 08-20-2010, 09:37 AM
  #243  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Chris-G


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

Whats to report - I could care less about what you do with your models. What is relevant to my inquiry is your lack of experience with turbines. Your not a waivered jet pilot, you don't own any turbines, you really don't have much to offer here except your conjecture which is mostly been proven to be completely wrong. Go back to what you know - PROPS? EDF? and leave these forums to the ones who actually know a little about what they are talking about.

Give us your AMA number and first name and if your on the list you won't here another word from me about it. - if not GO AWAY TROLL>!
Well, aren't you Mr. Funnyman!

Once again Andy ... nice try. But since you don't know me, you have no business falsely attacking me in a poor attempt to discredit me. It just makes you look bad.
I don`t think so. You are really digging a hole here Mr 400
Same to you Chris. You have no business falsely attacking me. It just makes you look petty too.
{Awww, did I just give you the equivalent of a body slam too?}

Enough of this BS ... I have to get back to work on my T-38 Talon jet ... and it isn't a Skymaster (or shoud we rename the company Skydisaster!
Old 08-20-2010, 09:48 AM
  #244  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: JetsRC

The easiest way to make this go away is just not to post anything and in a few days the problem will have been forgoten like many other we have all seen posted here from diferent brands, but instead of that we are posting and offering help, but this seems not to be enough for you.

Michel
So, you really want this problem to diasppear by ignoring it? forgetting about it??? What the!!! Your strategy is to have people forget about inferior workmanship! That's disgusting and appalling!! Geeze, that comment is enough to scare anyone away from Skymaster ...

Lets recap with pictures ... shall we ...
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Old 08-20-2010, 10:01 AM
  #245  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: Airplanes400

ORIGINAL: JetsRC

The easiest way to make this go away is just not to post anything and in a few days the problem will have been forgoten like many other we have all seen posted here from diferent brands, but instead of that we are posting and offering help, but this seems not to be enough for you.

Michel
So, you really want this problem to diasppear by ignoring it? forgetting about it??? What the!!! Your strategy is to have people forget about inferior workmanship! That's disgusting and appalling!! Geeze, that comment is enough to scare anyone away from Skymaster ... ahhhh, A.K.A. Skydisaster.
Excuse me but in what part did you saw me trying to make this go away???
Have I not offerred help?
Have I not answered to posts (even you childish posts)
Have I not been pending on this thread to be sure to offer help?

I really don't see how intricate my plot must be to make this go away.... hmmmmm maybe I have a secret master plan that involves even conquering the world!!! hahaha... this is just too childish...[8D]

Michel

PS: All the customer of those pictures are welcome to contact me directly and we will see their case... This has been stated before...

Old 08-20-2010, 10:10 AM
  #246  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.


ORIGINAL: Airplanes400



Once again Andy ... nice try. But since you don't know me, you have no business falsely attacking me in a poor attempt to discredit me. It just makes you look bad.



Do you have a waiver, Andy? Most of the time, it's the person who is attacking others that is guilty of the same claim. Do you want to put your AMA number and name up on a public site? I would think not! If you did, that would be foolish. But hey, could you give us your SS#, DOB, dirvers license #, address, and bank account info please?

You're doing a fine job of discrediting yourself actually. I have no clue who you are, you've hidden behind the internet very well, but reading your posts, between your ego and your interpretation of what is safe or correct, the only one here really discrediting you is YOU.
Old 08-20-2010, 10:17 AM
  #247  
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ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
You're doing a fine job of discrediting yourself actually. I have no clue who you are, you've hidden behind the internet very well, but reading your posts, between your ego and your interpretation of what is safe or correct, the only one here really discrediting you is YOU.
LOL - have you noticed that sometimes it's difficult to determine whether a poster is really a 12 year old who is trying to pose as an adult, or an 'adult' who behaves like a petulant 12 year old ?
Old 08-20-2010, 10:19 AM
  #248  
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Old 08-20-2010, 10:23 AM
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Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

Michel, In your last post you made conflicting statements. You write, "The easiest way to make this go away is just not to post anything and in a few days the problem will have been forgoten." Then you ask people to send emails. Well, people sent Anton emails and he did nothing. Besides, once an airplane crashes, it's too late to provide help.

Face it, Skymasters' quality stinks. Upgrades are needed in many areas. SM jets built as depicted should have never been sold.
An aluminum tab attached to balsa wood with a shoddy glue job that a young child would do! Disgraceful!!
This is not the kind of work that should go into a jet that would cost $5500.00 after all is said and done.

Another SM rep admitting that customers need to expect a lesser quality built aircraft from SM due to the lower price, and that the customer needs to reinforce the jet in several unknown areas!!

China has lower wages, so that should translate to a lower price for the consumer while the quality remains high. But a SM rep admitted this is not the case with SM.

I could give you much better and reliable options for a proper fix, but I'll give it individually to people at my field who own these things. So far, I have seen others offer their fix, but nothing coming from SM or the reps.
Old 08-20-2010, 10:30 AM
  #250  
AndyAndrews
 
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 6,147
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: Dragon wing failure.

ORIGINAL: Airplanes400



Do you have a waiver, Andy? Most of the time, it's the person who is attacking others that is guilty of the same claim. Do you want to put your AMA number and name up on a public site? I would think not! If you did, that would be foolish. But hey, could you give us your SS#, DOB, dirvers license #, address, and bank account info please?
Hahah, you are starting to get hilarious actually. I have no problem posting my AMA number and Waiver number at all. Here it is big boy:

AMA #877368
Waiver #FW14290

Making that comment shows even more that you don't know what you are talking about. There is no info attached to this that could harm my idenity at all. We give this information at every jet rally we go to. Whats the big deal?

Lets see yours troll. Oh you don't have it. Work on your T-38... lol you mean your foamy T-38. Again go away. Your useless here.

BTW, the waiver holders list is posted in the members only section of AMA for all to see Bone HeAD. Now cough up that number.. oops busted!

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