Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
08-21-2010, 10:02 AM
#52
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: nhulsey
Is the turbine waiver a regulate requirement????????? I guess what I'm asking is.....is it required by any type of law??? I don;t fly jets, I'm just curious.
Is the turbine waiver a regulate requirement????????? I guess what I'm asking is.....is it required by any type of law??? I don;t fly jets, I'm just curious.
08-21-2010, 10:11 AM
#53
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: bevar
Well...if you call the AMA regs ''law''...then yes it is.
You need a waiver to fly a turbine at an AMA field or an AMA event as well as being covered by AMA insurance in the case of an accident.
Beave
Well...if you call the AMA regs ''law''...then yes it is.
You need a waiver to fly a turbine at an AMA field or an AMA event as well as being covered by AMA insurance in the case of an accident.
Beave
Per these guys, AMA members can not simply ignore the AMA rules just because they are flying from a location that is not an AMA chartered club field or a location being used for an AMA sanctioned event. Seems dumb that you cannot opt out, but that's the way they have set it up, as has been discussed here countless times in the past. Their position is that if you have signed up as an AMA member, you have agreed to abide by their reg's regardless of where you fly from.
Gordon
08-21-2010, 10:19 AM
#54
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews
So all of these people comming on complaining about AMA restrictions on turbines need to understand that it's not AMA but the insurance companies that rule the roost here. Complain to them.
So all of these people comming on complaining about AMA restrictions on turbines need to understand that it's not AMA but the insurance companies that rule the roost here. Complain to them.
Furthermore IIRC the AMA is its own insurance carrier for the first million or so, such that the external carriers hardly ever see a claim. I'm sure Keith could elabortae / correct as necessary.
Many of the dumber restrictions were simply pulled out of Dave Brown's nether regions. Other SIGs fought against reg's that they disliked (e.g. the infamous rule #9), but much of the turbine community seems to prefer the "don't fight dumb rules - just ignore them" approach instead, as can be witnessed in the attitude towards the 200 mph speed limit.
Gorodn
08-21-2010, 11:24 AM
#56
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
According to the facts I've been told by various AMA officials, it was the AMA - not the external insurance carriers - that came up with most, if not all, of the restrictions.
Furthermore IIRC the AMA is its own insurance carrier for the first million or so, such that the external carriers hardly ever see a claim. I'm sure Keith could elabortae / correct as necessary.
Many of the dumber restrictions were simply pulled out of Dave Brown's nether regions. Other SIGs fought against reg's that they disliked (e.g. the infamous rule #9), but much of the turbine community seems to prefer the ''don't fight dumb rules - just ignore them'' approach instead, as can be witnessed in the attitude towards the 200 mph speed limit.
Gorodn
ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews
So all of these people comming on complaining about AMA restrictions on turbines need to understand that it's not AMA but the insurance companies that rule the roost here. Complain to them.
So all of these people comming on complaining about AMA restrictions on turbines need to understand that it's not AMA but the insurance companies that rule the roost here. Complain to them.
Furthermore IIRC the AMA is its own insurance carrier for the first million or so, such that the external carriers hardly ever see a claim. I'm sure Keith could elabortae / correct as necessary.
Many of the dumber restrictions were simply pulled out of Dave Brown's nether regions. Other SIGs fought against reg's that they disliked (e.g. the infamous rule #9), but much of the turbine community seems to prefer the ''don't fight dumb rules - just ignore them'' approach instead, as can be witnessed in the attitude towards the 200 mph speed limit.
Gorodn
08-21-2010, 11:26 AM
#57
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
Correction - per the AMA and the JPO, you must have a waiver to operate a turbine if you are an AMA member, regardless of where you fly, and regardless of whether you expect to be covered by AMA insurance.
Per these guys, AMA members can not simply ignore the AMA rules just because they are flying from a location that is not an AMA chartered club field or a location being used for an AMA sanctioned event. Seems dumb that you cannot opt out, but that's the way they have set it up, as has been discussed here countless times in the past. Their position is that if you have signed up as an AMA member, you have agreed to abide by their reg's regardless of where you fly from.
Gordon
ORIGINAL: bevar
Well...if you call the AMA regs ''law''...then yes it is.
You need a waiver to fly a turbine at an AMA field or an AMA event as well as being covered by AMA insurance in the case of an accident.
Beave
Well...if you call the AMA regs ''law''...then yes it is.
You need a waiver to fly a turbine at an AMA field or an AMA event as well as being covered by AMA insurance in the case of an accident.
Beave
Per these guys, AMA members can not simply ignore the AMA rules just because they are flying from a location that is not an AMA chartered club field or a location being used for an AMA sanctioned event. Seems dumb that you cannot opt out, but that's the way they have set it up, as has been discussed here countless times in the past. Their position is that if you have signed up as an AMA member, you have agreed to abide by their reg's regardless of where you fly from.
Gordon
08-21-2010, 12:31 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: down here Ya\'ll,
TX
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Maybe the AMA should set up turbine waivers for all weight cassifications.............a turbine is a turbine is a turbine.......doesn't matter what you call it, it's still a turbine no matter how heavy the aircraft is you put it in. I believe all turbine powered aircraft should be watched a little closer as to who operates them................I respect the people who fly them and fly them well, no matter what size they are. They are a challenge much more complex to fly with (compared to glow and gas) no matter what size they are IMO. Not trying to be biased about anything, I enjoy watching them fly. I think qualification should be sought after in all sizes of turbine powered aircraft based different weight classifications.
If I am flying a turbine powered bird that weighs 9 lbs with a qualification, I wouldn't expect to be able to go out and fly an F-18 that weighs 50 lbs and fly it with the same qualification as the 9lbs......................I guess my point is, the only way to really make it fair is to require waivers for different categories of wieght (7-10lbs, 10.1-14lbs, 14.1-18...............etc. etc.) I dunno?????
If I am flying a turbine powered bird that weighs 9 lbs with a qualification, I wouldn't expect to be able to go out and fly an F-18 that weighs 50 lbs and fly it with the same qualification as the 9lbs......................I guess my point is, the only way to really make it fair is to require waivers for different categories of wieght (7-10lbs, 10.1-14lbs, 14.1-18...............etc. etc.) I dunno?????
08-21-2010, 01:05 PM
#59
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Euless,
TX
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
What difference does weight make in regards to wether you are in compliance with the AMA regs or not? If you get checked out, then your are checked out. Most people when starting out in this hobby/sport, started with a trainer, then after you either got that mastered or crashed beyond repair, you might have stepped up to a 5/6 ch. with retracts/flaps, maybe it was a little bigger and faster, and with jets, most start out with a trainer of sort, then as your experience and finances could withstand it, you went to something bigger. Now there are some who have a lot of finances and can easily purchase more than there experience can handle, I don't see a problem with this. My only advice would be get with others who have been down this road and can give you some insight and maybe help with flying. When I'm "rusty" and haven't flown in a while, I will get my trusty check airman/test pilot Dave Hudson, and we will go out and fly together, he's there to help/assist me in case I get into a situation I can't handle. Forget the weight thing, way toooo many regs now.
08-21-2010, 01:28 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: down here Ya\'ll,
TX
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: jeteffx
What difference does weight make in regards to wether you are in compliance with the AMA regs or not? If you get checked out, then your are checked out. Most people when starting out in this hobby/sport, started with a trainer, then after you either got that mastered or crashed beyond repair, you might have stepped up to a 5/6 ch. with retracts/flaps, maybe it was a little bigger and faster, and with jets, most start out with a trainer of sort, then as your experience and finances could withstand it, you went to something bigger. Now there are some who have a lot of finances and can easily purchase more than there experience can handle, I don't see a problem with this. My only advice would be get with others who have been down this road and can give you some insight and maybe help with flying. When I'm "rusty" and haven't flown in a while, I will get my trusty check airman/test pilot Dave Hudson, and we will go out and fly together, he's there to help/assist me in case I get into a situation I can't handle. Forget the weight thing, way toooo many regs now.
What difference does weight make in regards to wether you are in compliance with the AMA regs or not? If you get checked out, then your are checked out. Most people when starting out in this hobby/sport, started with a trainer, then after you either got that mastered or crashed beyond repair, you might have stepped up to a 5/6 ch. with retracts/flaps, maybe it was a little bigger and faster, and with jets, most start out with a trainer of sort, then as your experience and finances could withstand it, you went to something bigger. Now there are some who have a lot of finances and can easily purchase more than there experience can handle, I don't see a problem with this. My only advice would be get with others who have been down this road and can give you some insight and maybe help with flying. When I'm "rusty" and haven't flown in a while, I will get my trusty check airman/test pilot Dave Hudson, and we will go out and fly together, he's there to help/assist me in case I get into a situation I can't handle. Forget the weight thing, way toooo many regs now.
True, there are lots of regs....just wanted to see what people thought.
08-22-2010, 11:34 AM
#62
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
That could be a possibility. Maybe Micro, under 30, over 30 and experimental.
That would not be too tough and once you have one, it's easier to get the rest.
Beave
That would not be too tough and once you have one, it's easier to get the rest.
Beave
ORIGINAL: nhulsey
Maybe the AMA should set up turbine waivers for all weight cassifications.............a turbine is a turbine is a turbine.......doesn't matter what you call it, it's still a turbine no matter how heavy the aircraft is you put it in. I believe all turbine powered aircraft should be watched a little closer as to who operates them................I respect the people who fly them and fly them well, no matter what size they are. They are a challenge much more complex to fly with (compared to glow and gas) no matter what size they are IMO. Not trying to be biased about anything, I enjoy watching them fly. I think qualification should be sought after in all sizes of turbine powered aircraft based different weight classifications.
If I am flying a turbine powered bird that weighs 9 lbs with a qualification, I wouldn't expect to be able to go out and fly an F-18 that weighs 50 lbs and fly it with the same qualification as the 9lbs......................I guess my point is, the only way to really make it fair is to require waivers for different categories of wieght (7-10lbs, 10.1-14lbs, 14.1-18...............etc. etc.) I dunno?????
Maybe the AMA should set up turbine waivers for all weight cassifications.............a turbine is a turbine is a turbine.......doesn't matter what you call it, it's still a turbine no matter how heavy the aircraft is you put it in. I believe all turbine powered aircraft should be watched a little closer as to who operates them................I respect the people who fly them and fly them well, no matter what size they are. They are a challenge much more complex to fly with (compared to glow and gas) no matter what size they are IMO. Not trying to be biased about anything, I enjoy watching them fly. I think qualification should be sought after in all sizes of turbine powered aircraft based different weight classifications.
If I am flying a turbine powered bird that weighs 9 lbs with a qualification, I wouldn't expect to be able to go out and fly an F-18 that weighs 50 lbs and fly it with the same qualification as the 9lbs......................I guess my point is, the only way to really make it fair is to require waivers for different categories of wieght (7-10lbs, 10.1-14lbs, 14.1-18...............etc. etc.) I dunno?????
08-22-2010, 11:42 AM
#63
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
In full scale it is done that way. You have...uh...plain Jane C-172...Warrior ETC. Then you have High Performance, anything over 12,500 MTOW is a type rating and then each and every kind of jet requires a separate type rating (there are a few exceptions, like (757/767, LRJET ETC that combine more than one type).
If we are not careful and don't earnestly start "policing our own", it might just come to this...if not worse. I for one hope not...
Beave
If we are not careful and don't earnestly start "policing our own", it might just come to this...if not worse. I for one hope not...
Beave
ORIGINAL: jeteffx
What difference does weight make in regards to wether you are in compliance with the AMA regs or not? If you get checked out, then your are checked out. Most people when starting out in this hobby/sport, started with a trainer, then after you either got that mastered or crashed beyond repair, you might have stepped up to a 5/6 ch. with retracts/flaps, maybe it was a little bigger and faster, and with jets, most start out with a trainer of sort, then as your experience and finances could withstand it, you went to something bigger. Now there are some who have a lot of finances and can easily purchase more than there experience can handle, I don't see a problem with this. My only advice would be get with others who have been down this road and can give you some insight and maybe help with flying. When I'm ''rusty'' and haven't flown in a while, I will get my trusty check airman/test pilot Dave Hudson, and we will go out and fly together, he's there to help/assist me in case I get into a situation I can't handle. Forget the weight thing, way toooo many regs now.
What difference does weight make in regards to wether you are in compliance with the AMA regs or not? If you get checked out, then your are checked out. Most people when starting out in this hobby/sport, started with a trainer, then after you either got that mastered or crashed beyond repair, you might have stepped up to a 5/6 ch. with retracts/flaps, maybe it was a little bigger and faster, and with jets, most start out with a trainer of sort, then as your experience and finances could withstand it, you went to something bigger. Now there are some who have a lot of finances and can easily purchase more than there experience can handle, I don't see a problem with this. My only advice would be get with others who have been down this road and can give you some insight and maybe help with flying. When I'm ''rusty'' and haven't flown in a while, I will get my trusty check airman/test pilot Dave Hudson, and we will go out and fly together, he's there to help/assist me in case I get into a situation I can't handle. Forget the weight thing, way toooo many regs now.
08-22-2010, 03:36 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bend,
OR
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Couldn't agree more with Bev.. Fighting or complaining at each other won't solve the problems as we each have our own opinion’s. In this day and age of brother looking over our shoulder and the farce TSA trying to be involved with everything flying it certainly could get much more complicated in short order if all things flying fell under FAA or TSA jurisdiction. I think overall we do a pretty good job of policing our own and while I don’t agree with all the reg’s we have now, I don’t have a problem abiding by them. Just makes me wonder why we need to change rules right now. Is it someone in a dark room that has nothing to do or is that entity trying to look more “proactive†by changing rules that seem to work. No secret that Dr. D Brown wasn’t too happy with those of us wishing to burn Kero, least that’s the impression I got when reading his columns.
08-22-2010, 05:06 PM
#65
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
08-22-2010, 05:38 PM
#66
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: tp777fo
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
Very well said Tom!
08-22-2010, 06:05 PM
#67
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: tp777fo
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
08-22-2010, 06:30 PM
#68
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
+3
ORIGINAL: invertmast
+2
ORIGINAL: tp777fo
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
Good god guys, I cant believe all the *****in about the change to the waiver rules. Remember how many rules we had just a few short years ago...speed limiters, written tests, school to operate your turbines, sign offs from everyone including your mom and that was just to fly a JPX. Now you basically just have to show you are PROFICIENT in flying a turbine powered model airplane and remain PROFICIENT to keep your waiver. Give me a break. I just had a long conversation with one of the AMA VPs yesterday and the AMA is working as hard as they can to keep us flying models PERIOD. The FAA wants to grind us to a halt with mindless rules dreamed up by bureaucrats. Unless we as modelers can remain united and support the JPO and AMA who are trying to protect us from big brother you can just expect to use them for high speed leaf blowers. The new turbine waiver sign off is nothing.
08-22-2010, 06:55 PM
#69
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Euless,
TX
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Bevar,
I just think having to get a waiver for aircraft weight/turbine thrust is just silly. How is one supposed to get his sign off,would there be "under cover" AMA types asking to weigh or see how much thrust your engine is producing at every field there is a jet flying at. I guess one would build another jet costing thousands of dollars just to fly a bigger, heavier, more thrust, just to get the sign off.....no thanks.Oh BTW, getting a Citation 500 type will allow you to fly at least 8 different models.
I just think having to get a waiver for aircraft weight/turbine thrust is just silly. How is one supposed to get his sign off,would there be "under cover" AMA types asking to weigh or see how much thrust your engine is producing at every field there is a jet flying at. I guess one would build another jet costing thousands of dollars just to fly a bigger, heavier, more thrust, just to get the sign off.....no thanks.Oh BTW, getting a Citation 500 type will allow you to fly at least 8 different models.
08-22-2010, 07:09 PM
#70
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Jet,
Basically if we do not get our collective acts together...it might just come down to that with the FAA getting involved with our models. Lets hope it does not.
I never flew the Slowtation...kinda like an Aztec with fans from what my Buds said...easy, very stable ETC...
Beave
Basically if we do not get our collective acts together...it might just come down to that with the FAA getting involved with our models. Lets hope it does not.
I never flew the Slowtation...kinda like an Aztec with fans from what my Buds said...easy, very stable ETC...
Beave
ORIGINAL: jeteffx
Bevar,
I just think having to get a waiver for aircraft weight/turbine thrust is just silly. How is one supposed to get his sign off,would there be ''under cover'' AMA types asking to weigh or see how much thrust your engine is producing at every field there is a jet flying at. I guess one would build another jet costing thousands of dollars just to fly a bigger, heavier, more thrust, just to get the sign off.....no thanks.Oh BTW, getting a Citation 500 type will allow you to fly at least 8 different models.
Bevar,
I just think having to get a waiver for aircraft weight/turbine thrust is just silly. How is one supposed to get his sign off,would there be ''under cover'' AMA types asking to weigh or see how much thrust your engine is producing at every field there is a jet flying at. I guess one would build another jet costing thousands of dollars just to fly a bigger, heavier, more thrust, just to get the sign off.....no thanks.Oh BTW, getting a Citation 500 type will allow you to fly at least 8 different models.
08-22-2010, 07:45 PM
#71
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Euless,
TX
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Slowtation......yep, not sure about an Aztec with fans,I'm flying a CII, CV and Bravo right now. The V is a whole lot better than the the II and Bravo, the Bravo has all glass which is cool, and the II I fly has Garmins 530/430 WAAS, but the V you can plan on 410 which is better than 360 for the II and 380 for the Bravo. I think Cessna got it right when they kept the 500 series under 1 type, now if you are flying part 135, you'll have to have differences class.
08-22-2010, 08:15 PM
#72
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Jet,
That sounds like the DC-9 deal. Get a -9 rating and you are good for the -10, -30, 50, MD-80, 81, 82, 83, 88, 90 ETC. 10 seconds of differences and it's off ya go!
I remember back when I was on the -80, we would bring an old -82 into LGA...old as in the instrument panel stolen out of the Hindenburg and the overhead copied from the Titanic...swap gates and hop into an -83 that had bigger engines and the instrument panel and FMS out of the 757 (minus the Eicas stuff). It was funny because the older Captains would just sit there and go "uh uh uh" as I said "Go grab a paper Pops...I'll have this up and running before you get back" (back then I was a 75 guy displaced back to the -80). It was pretty funny...
Ahhhh..the good old days...
Beave [sm=49_49.gif]
PS. Of course there is not an -80 on this planet as nice as the newer stuff you are flying (gee whiz wise)...we liked to look at it as Ancestry Worship...
That sounds like the DC-9 deal. Get a -9 rating and you are good for the -10, -30, 50, MD-80, 81, 82, 83, 88, 90 ETC. 10 seconds of differences and it's off ya go!
I remember back when I was on the -80, we would bring an old -82 into LGA...old as in the instrument panel stolen out of the Hindenburg and the overhead copied from the Titanic...swap gates and hop into an -83 that had bigger engines and the instrument panel and FMS out of the 757 (minus the Eicas stuff). It was funny because the older Captains would just sit there and go "uh uh uh" as I said "Go grab a paper Pops...I'll have this up and running before you get back" (back then I was a 75 guy displaced back to the -80). It was pretty funny...
Ahhhh..the good old days...
Beave [sm=49_49.gif]
PS. Of course there is not an -80 on this planet as nice as the newer stuff you are flying (gee whiz wise)...we liked to look at it as Ancestry Worship...
08-22-2010, 08:24 PM
#73
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
This is in the latest JPO mag...it's online as we speak...
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
Changes to Turbine Regulations
As of this writing, there is an agenda item on the
next AMA Executive Council meeting to consider a
change to the turbine regulations. In essence, the
AMA Safety Committee is recommending that all
turbine waiver flights be conducted using a turbine
aircraft with a minimum weight of 12 pounds. There is
also some additional wording indicating that the
candidate must be able to talk through issues of radio
fail-safe programming, ECU operation and turbine lag,
subjects that would generally require actual turbine
operation for the requisite level of knowledge. I do not
know at this point if the changes will be approved by
the EC, but by the time this is published, the result of
the EC vote should be public.
The change in the regulations was precipitated by a
specific event. A turbine waiver was granted to an
individual based upon a qualification flight using an
ARF foam aircraft. Assuming this plane could reach
100 mph, using it for a turbine qualification flight is, in
fact, strictly legal under the existing regulations.
Having said this, I suspect most turbine CDs would
likely recognize the gap between technical compliance
and practical compliance, and would have expected
more before granting the waiver. The incident was
publicized on the internet, complaints were formally
registered and the Safety Committee recommendation
followed.
The JPO was contacted and the board of directors
unanimously supported the changes. In the final
analysis, we did not view this as new or onerous
regulation, but rather an update to clarify the intent of
the original regulations that were written before the
popular explosion of light-foam aircraft. The simple
argument that carried the day with the board, in my
view, was the sentiment that the vast majority of
individuals seek a turbine waiver for the specific
purpose of flying a turbine aircraft, and it is logical this
aircraft should be utilized to demonstrate both
operational and intellectual understanding of this type
of propulsion system. While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied. The greater concern was
the granting of a waiver based on a foam aircraft
equipped with a micro-turbine, and then using this as
the basis for unlimited access to any size turbine
aircraft.
Any comments, pro or con, are welcome. Contact
information for the board of directors is on the JPO
website, or you may contact me directly at pilot114@
aol.com.
Keith
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
Changes to Turbine Regulations
As of this writing, there is an agenda item on the
next AMA Executive Council meeting to consider a
change to the turbine regulations. In essence, the
AMA Safety Committee is recommending that all
turbine waiver flights be conducted using a turbine
aircraft with a minimum weight of 12 pounds. There is
also some additional wording indicating that the
candidate must be able to talk through issues of radio
fail-safe programming, ECU operation and turbine lag,
subjects that would generally require actual turbine
operation for the requisite level of knowledge. I do not
know at this point if the changes will be approved by
the EC, but by the time this is published, the result of
the EC vote should be public.
The change in the regulations was precipitated by a
specific event. A turbine waiver was granted to an
individual based upon a qualification flight using an
ARF foam aircraft. Assuming this plane could reach
100 mph, using it for a turbine qualification flight is, in
fact, strictly legal under the existing regulations.
Having said this, I suspect most turbine CDs would
likely recognize the gap between technical compliance
and practical compliance, and would have expected
more before granting the waiver. The incident was
publicized on the internet, complaints were formally
registered and the Safety Committee recommendation
followed.
The JPO was contacted and the board of directors
unanimously supported the changes. In the final
analysis, we did not view this as new or onerous
regulation, but rather an update to clarify the intent of
the original regulations that were written before the
popular explosion of light-foam aircraft. The simple
argument that carried the day with the board, in my
view, was the sentiment that the vast majority of
individuals seek a turbine waiver for the specific
purpose of flying a turbine aircraft, and it is logical this
aircraft should be utilized to demonstrate both
operational and intellectual understanding of this type
of propulsion system. While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied. The greater concern was
the granting of a waiver based on a foam aircraft
equipped with a micro-turbine, and then using this as
the basis for unlimited access to any size turbine
aircraft.
Any comments, pro or con, are welcome. Contact
information for the board of directors is on the JPO
website, or you may contact me directly at pilot114@
aol.com.
Keith
08-22-2010, 09:20 PM
#74
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
ORIGINAL: bevar
This is in the latest JPO mag...it's online as we speak...
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied.
This is in the latest JPO mag...it's online as we speak...
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied.
Gordon
08-22-2010, 09:46 PM
#75
RE: Changes to the Turbine Waiver test...
Gordon,
Due to your extreme interest in this section, I believe Keith will be making arrangements for you to let any micro pilot use one of your jets to get their waiver with. You seem so upset over it...it's purely humanitarian that you do this.
Beave
Due to your extreme interest in this section, I believe Keith will be making arrangements for you to let any micro pilot use one of your jets to get their waiver with. You seem so upset over it...it's purely humanitarian that you do this.
Beave
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
So, what exactly is this ''easy remedy'' ? Is the JPO going to arrange the loan of a larger model for such applicants to use in their demo flights, or donate the funds for said applicant to buy an unwanted larger model ? ... or some other plan ?
Gordon
ORIGINAL: bevar
This is in the latest JPO mag...it's online as we speak...
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied.
This is in the latest JPO mag...it's online as we speak...
Beave
President’s Report (cont’d) Keith Sievers
While there is a slight issue with
the fact that owners of micro-turbines may need
access to a slightly larger model for purposes of
qualification, it is expected that these situations are
rare and easily remedied.
Gordon