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Split list and classified section

Old 09-07-2010, 07:05 PM
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pattratt
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Default Split list and classified section

Hi All

I would like to throw out a couple of things for discussion and to the moderators I am going to post this on both flying pattern & electric pattern as both groups would be affected.

First, it appears that the pattern population is definitely taking a hard turn to electric. To illustrate this I ask you how many glow/ignition NEW aircraft has anyone seen being introduced lately. There are a few "combination" entries over the past two years like the Valiant and the Passport but the majority of new products being introduced for the most part are being directed toward Electric! [It appears to be a bigger market] There are a huge amount of pattern flyiers on these two forums that want to and do monitor BOTH forums. We are all "Pattern Flyers" and the two different forums divide our common interest to some extent. I guess what I am asking is for your input on going back to a single "Pattern Forum." What do you think?

Second, I have had several people with a mild interest in getting into pattern asking where they could go to find "Used Equipment" to get started in what we all know is not an inexpensive endeavor. There really is not a good place to try and sell our used equipment. I was wondering if there would be enough interest to add a "Pattern Classified" sub forum similar to what the Jets forum uses on RCU. There has from time to time been a discussion on what we could do to get more people involved in pattern and I think a "Classified" section with rules similar to what the Jets group uses could be of real beneifit to us all!

Please don't anyone get upset as I am just throwing this out as "Food For Thought!" Our sport is definitely changing and anything we can do to unify it and make it more appealing to new comers I would think benefits us all.

Regards
Dick
Old 09-07-2010, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

I hate to be jumping back and forth from pattern to electric pattern, pattern is pattern Period!! I support your point of a single thread.
Everybody benefits from both, electric and glow.

Alejandro P.
Old 09-07-2010, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section



I think what you are trying to say is which way is the pattern world heading to ie Glow or Electric ???
Personally I uould like to see the two seperated all together and have seperate compeditions. Once the Hotshots from the two camps is decided then a flyoff would determine the World Champion from the top 10 or 20...... from each camp !!!!

You dont have electric F1 cars buzziing around with petrol cars now do we...that wouldnt be fair !!!

kind regards

MAVROS
Old 09-07-2010, 08:37 PM
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pattratt
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Mavros

That is not at all what I am saying. What you suggest would further divide the patterm communiy. I just feel a single forum would bring us all into a single room of discussion, knowledge, and fellowship. Regarless of the propulsion system, what we are about is precision aerobatics.

Dick
Old 09-07-2010, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

i assume the classic pattern forum is not being included in this idea?
Old 09-07-2010, 10:15 PM
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pattratt
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

My guess is that they would not wish to be part of a combined forum as they do not fly by the same rules as AMA Pattern and FAI nor do they use our type of aircraft. I could be wrong.

Dick
Old 09-07-2010, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Hi Dick.....I prefer to keep them separate.
Old 09-07-2010, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section


ORIGINAL: Dave Harmon

Hi Dick.....I prefer to keep them separate.
+1
Old 09-07-2010, 11:22 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Being new to RCU, what I find interesting is (at least lately) the threads really aren't discussing pattern but pattern planes and things associated with those planes i.e. chargers, or YS 170's or ESC's or incidence of the wing on a particular model.  If this is the "norm", I actually find it easier to locate the information I'm looking for with the separate sub-forums.

I do agree with keeping us united but I think y'all should consider this similar to when we started flying 4-cycle models.  Come on...you remember.  The 2-cycle guys said they'd never switch and the 4-cycle guys were trying to show the benefits of switching.  Yeah...you do remember huh.  This is the same thing.  What you fly shouldn't separate anything like one gentleman suggested.  Even though the moderators moved the "electric pattern" to the "electric" side of RCU, all you have to do is save them in "My Forums".  To me, Pattern is pattern.  Even the classic pattern is still pattern just another form.  The pattern community (and amount of contests) is already small enough and we certainly don't need any more division but keeping the threads separate (at least for me) makes it easier to find information based on what I'm looking for.  I have simply noticed that when we actually discuss pattern, it is usually found in this sub-forum and the electric is hardware specific.  It's all in one's taste for organization but I certainly don't think it divides us in any way.
Old 09-07-2010, 11:37 PM
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pattratt
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Dave & Myfrederick

Could you guys elaborate on why you would prefer it stay seperate. I ask only to understand the reasons as I may be missing a valid reason

Thanks
Dick.
Old 09-07-2010, 11:43 PM
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pattratt
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Thanks Scott

You make some valid points. Thanks for posting them.

Dick
Old 09-08-2010, 02:01 AM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section




Hi all,

The point I am trying to make is that an IC engine has diferent propulsion characteristicks than an Electric.So one may suggest it is not a level playing field......

regards

Mavros
Old 09-08-2010, 03:31 AM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

It seems to me that seperate comps would only be devisive.We are all trying to FLY a pattern,the equipment we choose to achieve that end is personal.The fact that we have viable alternative propulsion systems makes life interesting,and I like to watch ALL pattern planes and pilots fly.
Old 09-08-2010, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Dick....All....
It's not about being devisive or 'level playing field' or any other cliche that can be attached.......

It's about equipment.....and having two forums with each type of propulsion system make it much easier to find info about each.
For me....leaving things as they are now would be best.
Old 09-08-2010, 12:18 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

While I agree that electric has some advantages over IC, I do not see it making a huge difference in the flight performance of a skilled pilot, and 2s/4s/E should remain options in Pattern. Perhaps a good forum split would be Pattern flying, planes and contests / IC power sources / E power sources. I recently returned to flying pattern after a few years and am currently flying E power, but have a Webra powered Hydeout hanging in the garage that I want to restore and turn into a backup, or maybe even primary since my E-pattern is .90 size.

There is already a pattern section in the RCU classifieds.
Old 09-08-2010, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

ORIGINAL: pattratt

Dave & Myfrederick

Could you guys elaborate on why you would prefer it stay seperate. I ask only to understand the reasons as I may be missing a valid reason

Thanks
Dick.
Dick,
I had originally written out an explanation, and then decided against posting it. Well, since you asked, here you go. I have no interest in ever flying an electric pattern airplane for competition. Furthermore, I have no interest in having to sift through thread after thread about different techniques on getting the smoke back into speed controllers, or saving puffed batteries, or whatever else it is that the electric guys talk about that I have no interest in. The Passport desinged for glow as well? Ha, tell that to the people who tried, they fall apart after a handful a flights. The Valiant designed for electric? It's got hatori header clearance molded into the chin cowl. Yes, Brian added some features that would make electric conversion easier and more accessible, but if it couldn't make weight as an electric he probably wouldn't have stressed that much. Bottom line is, e-power is fine for flying in my back yard. When I'm ready to really fly, give me an internal combustion engine any day. If that means one day my airplanes will no longer be competitive, or even allowed to fly in competition, then so be it, but you will never catch me taking even the slightest interest in anything electric pattern related.

OK, flame suit on, have at it.

Matt
Old 09-08-2010, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section


ORIGINAL: mjfrederick

ORIGINAL: pattratt

Dave & Myfrederick

Could you guys elaborate on why you would prefer it stay seperate. I ask only to understand the reasons as I may be missing a valid reason

Thanks
Dick.
Dick,
I had originally written out an explanation, and then decided against posting it. Well, since you asked, here you go. I have no interest in ever flying an electric pattern airplane for competition. Furthermore, I have no interest in having to sift through thread after thread about different techniques on getting the smoke back into speed controllers, or saving puffed batteries, or whatever else it is that the electric guys talk about that I have no interest in. The Passport desinged for glow as well? Ha, tell that to the people who tried, they fall apart after a handful a flights. The Valiant designed for electric? It's got hatori header clearance molded into the chin cowl. Yes, Brian added some features that would make electric conversion easier and more accessible, but if it couldn't make weight as an electric he probably wouldn't have stressed that much. Bottom line is, e-power is fine for flying in my back yard. When I'm ready to really fly, give me an internal combustion engine any day. If that means one day my airplanes will no longer be competitive, or even allowed to fly in competition, then so be it, but you will never catch me taking even the slightest interest in anything electric pattern related.

OK, flame suit on, have at it.

Matt


+1 too.
Old 09-08-2010, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

In a few years you'll need two Forums,

"Elect Pattern Planes"

"Classic Pattern Planes"

There will be few if any IC kits in the next few years. The 3rd and final signal will be CPLR and the Japanese moving to electrics. That will be the Final Apocalypse. It will happen soon IMHO.

Arch changing to elect was #2

Get ready for your YS In runners boys.
Old 09-08-2010, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section



I'll just add this, we had a lot of push back after the last change we made in creating the "Pattern Universe" structure just a few months ago. I don't think there is really much merit in making any additional changes in the near term.

There already is a "pattern" section in the classifieds and I see no need to change the forum structure again in such a short period of time since the last major change...

at this point I will not support this suggestion...





Old 09-08-2010, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Would be nice to have a Battery/charger classified forum and an Elect motor classified.
Old 09-08-2010, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Thanks Dave

Dick
Old 09-08-2010, 03:46 PM
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pattratt
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handglider
If there was a lot of, as you put it, "push back" on the original change out of curosity what prompted the split to begin with?

For the record, no one has asked you or RCU to make any changes, all I was trying to do is get opinions on what the participants in both electric and this forum have regarding a single forum. That is why I posted on both forums, but now it's a mute point as you have removed the post on the electric pattern forum thus not allowing their opinions to be considered. I have always monitored the electric forum even though I currently fly YS as it's a part of the pattern community.

mjfrederick
I know of several people that run YS/OS in Passports and Electrics in Valiants but I know what your saying. I have always been a "Die-Hard" YS sort of guy. Thanks for the reply.

dreadnnat
I was not aware there was a pattern section in classifieds.
Thanks for the info and reply.

Mastertech
You are more right than you know. There will be many surprises coming for next season and I am not talking about me??

All
Thanks for the input. It appears the subject is of little interest to most of the forum members and one wold conclude it is a non issue. I learned several things so for me it was worth the effort.

Thanks to everyone who replied

Dick
Old 09-08-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Hello Dick, the change we just made was to give the "classic pattern" folks a top level forum on par with both the general and e-pattern forums, before the change the classic forum was a sub-group of the general pattern forum - the "Classic" guys wanted a separate and equal forum presence.

It's been my feeling that most of the members like the separation of the pattern forums as is.

We've actually spent a lot of time just a few months ago doing a good bit creating "The Pattern Universe" with it's 3 separate forums.

hope this helps.

dean





ORIGINAL: pattratt

handglider
If there was a lot of, as you put it, ''push back'' on the original change out of curosity what prompted the split to begin with?
Old 09-08-2010, 04:54 PM
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the two pattern forums where never combined before the changes I mentioned... sorry you didn't know that....
Old 09-08-2010, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: Split list and classified section

Dean
I should have known, it's the OLD GUYS fault! Wait a minute, that's me!!

Dick

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