LGM Graphix

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Hey guys, I just read the polishing tutorial in here and it was very good, nice work DE. I thought you'd be interested in this tutorial I did with my JMP firebird covering prep, painting, and polishing.
Hope it's helpful to you
Jeremy
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_95...tm.htm#9566339

ptxman

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Hey Jeremy! You couldnt resist hanging around the piston bangers for old times sake when it comes to paint! Good timing. Thanks for posting.

Can you type re-iterate your polishing products + what kind of pad + model of Makita please. I couldnt quite make out the compounds in your videos but it sounded similar to what DE on the other thread used?:
- 3M Perfect in III Extra Cut Rubbing Compund 05936
- 3M Perfect in III Machine Glaze 05937

So for whatever reason, Ive been using Farecla G3 from a long time ago. I used it on my plugs & also on my molds. At the time I was more concerned that it was water based vs solvent & not wanting to introduce any kind of residue or waxes into the molds from other finishing compounds for fear of release agent incompatibility issues. But now that I think back on it, Ive never had what I'd call a mirror finish. A good shiny finish yes, a mirror no. Likely you've probably heard of Farecla being a Canuck? Am I trying to make '80 grit' do a '600 grit job' with that stuff? Or is it more operator error or the wrong polishing equipment? I see the videos posted on Farecla's site & THEY make it look nice & shiny.... But Im happy to turf it & by the big jugs of 3M if Im barking up the wrong tree.

(Peter T)

LGM Graphix

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Hi Peter,
I like all go fast airplanes, one day I'll get another prop plane going haha. If there was any racing at all happening out here I'd probably get involved, but racing out here just doesn't exist, if it does, it must be like fight club, all underground and the first rule is "you don't talk about fight club" and the second rule is "you don't talk about fight club" lol.

As for the polishes, I use the 3M perfect it Rubbing compound, I think the number is 05933, and the Perfect it swirl remover 06064.
I don't remember the numbers for the waffle pads I use, the white one is used with the rubbing compound and the grey one which is softer is used with the swirl remover. The biggest trick though is using the 1500 grit discs to knock down all the orange peal and dust nibs, then using the 3000 trizact pads. All those products can be seen in this post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9679091
The polisher is a Makita 9227C, I do all of my polishing on the lowest setting to try to keep the heat down. The big trick on the lightweight fiberglass we use in airplanes is to get rid of as many sanding scratches as possible with the 3000 grit pads and then keep the heat out of the polishing.
As for Farecla, I have had the unpleasantry of using it years ago. I hated it, I hate how it polishes, I hate that you have to keep it so wet so it makes a mess of everything, I hate that if it dries on your surface it's nearly impossible to get rid of it etc. The 3M products cut and break down into a high gloss shine much faster, less messy, and clean up with water. They are bodyshop friendly (not silicone based) and a little goes a long ways. The Farecla stuff seemed to take forever to bring up a shine.
As for Farecla's video's, what I've come to learn, is that video's don't show much, you can see a picture of a super high gloss that looks perfect, but then you see it in person and sure it's shiny, but all the sanding scratches are still in there.
I went to a wet sanding and polishing seminar at KMS tools a few years back, they had a guy in there who has built and painted hundreds of show winning vehicles. They were doing a black hood using all Norton products, everyone ooh'd and ahh'd at the finish after he sanded and polished it, I walked up to it and looked at it and asked "so how do you get rid of all the sanding marks?" Nobody could see them until I pointed them out, then they realized it looked like it had still be drug across gravel. So he polished it more, and more and more. He went back to wet sanding, polishing, sanding, polishing etc. He was using Norton 1500 grit paper, then a wool pad. I don't like wool pad's personally, I prefer the foam waffle pads. By the end of that course, the instructor was so frustrated, he finally said to me "you paint motorcycles don't you?" I told him yes I did, and his response was "you guys are the pickiest *******s I've ever seen, nobody else would have noticed these sanding marks if you hadn't pointed them out". All I could wonder was how many $100,000 cars did he do for people that had sanding marks in them. The truth is, outside, you'd probably never ever see those marks, but in shop lighting, it was horrible. He should have done a white hood, or silver, something that wouldn't show those marks as badly.
Anyway, long story short, after attending that course, (and feeling ripped off for spending $150 on it) I tried the 3M product (previously I had been using another product but I can't remember what it was called) and I couldn't believe the results, while the product was more expensive, it cut my polishing time in half with better results.
I love the 3M product, especially when I'm doing plastic bike parts, if you get them to warm you'll never get sanding marks out. Once you get a feel for the product, it's almost bulletproof, I have never burned through an edge using the 3M stuff, although I know a big part of that is experience, like any polish you can burn through if you're not careful.
I don't use 3M products exclusively in my shop, but 3M polishes and pads, 3M sandpaper, 3M masking tape, and the double sided foam tape they produce are worlds better than any other manufacture I have found. Definitely worth the extra money.

On another note, don't forget, Princeton is next weekend! (sept 17, 18, 19) are you gonna make it out?
Jeremy

ptxman

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Awesome reply, thanks. Im going to have to read this a few times to digest it all but Im all pumped now with a new & informed plan of attack.

Re the Makita, is it a round-and-round or random orbit style?Im getting the impression that random motion is preferrable for the 'sanding' part of the operation, but not necessarily so for polishing? http://www.autogeek.net/ma927po.html

I guess a guy also has to factor that at optimal X rpm on a 7" dia equates to a different (must be higher?) rpm when using a 3 or 4"? I started out with that size because of the smallish surfaces but maybe a contributing factor to not seeing breakdown very fast.

So 3M white waffle was used on extra cut/rubbing compound & 3M grey waffle on swirl remover? In the 3M world, do the colors correlate to foam density for these specific tasks, or doesnt really work that way & a waffle color might be different than a flat pad etc. ?

Do you have a link to the turbine event?

D.E.

ptxman,

I would not reccomend a large buffer like the makita you have a link to unless you have arms like Popeye. I used one of that size before I bought my little oneand it was DANGEROUS on our thin sharp little edges! All of the info given by LGM Graphix is very good and along the same lines that I feel. I guess we were brought up in the same school.

I use the wool pad on our little models for cutting as it is a little better at getting into the tight areas such as where the vertical fin meets the horizontal. That being said the foam pads work better overall but you need to be careful of where the velcro/ felt backing is glued on as it can cut through the paint if hit too hard.

I agree on the notion to stick with 3M.

Dave E.

LGM Graphix

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Hi Peter,
To be honest with you, I don't use a random orbit sander or polisher for ANY part of the finishing process. Everything is hand sanded with a block as per the tutorial. The Random orbit's won't polish worth a crap, they are nice if you are applying a final glaze, or sometimes even a wax, but for cut polishing I think they're useless.
DE is correct, the Makita polisher is big and bulky, but I use it for almost everything, I love the polisher, the weight of the machine is the perfect weight for cutting efficiently without burning. It does make it tough to hold the polisher and the parts, but I've been using it for a long time and I'm used to it. I have to hold a lot of bike parts with one hand to keep from flinging them across the shop too so I have a single hand grip on the polisher most of the time.
I use the same polisher on racers, well, on anything I've painted and polished, and many of the jets have just as thin edges. Jets are actually tougher I find due to all the cutouts like gear door openings, servo hatches etc.
I don't like wool pads personally, to me they are much higher risk of catching edges and flinging parts across the room, but that's just me, I find the foam pads to be much safer in that regard as well.

Not that it's a great picture, but here's a little Kangke racer I painted and polished years ago with the same Makita

ptxman

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That's kameleon or color shift or whatever you call it right? Freakin awesome. I hate to ask how much that stuff costs from what Ive seen of paint supply catalogs, but it probably comes at 'multiples of the underlying model'

So... probably about to answer my own dumb question here... if round-and-round is good, and small & light is good, and inexpensive is REALLY good... I'm guessing something like these right-angle type die grinders wont work because they are too high of rpm & you can't just pinch back pressure on the reg to get it in the equivalent SFPM range like the big 6-7 inchers @ 600-3000 rpm?
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Ai...ders/CP862.htm

Somebody told me there was a medium duty (lighter weight), electric, random motion sander/polisher that you could 'lock' or alter the cam or? ... anyway so it would no longer be random, it would be circular motion. Cant find it, maybe it was wishful thinking.

/pt

daven

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I was thinking something like this might work also, for those of us on a budget.

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-...kit-99934.html

ptxman

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Hmm.. I actually have an offshore sander that looks exactly like that, but its definately random orbit action. Looking at the pdf manual parts breakdown of that one you're showing, it kinda looks straight connection to mtor shaft = circular?

LGM Graphix

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Hi Peter,
I run my polisher pretty well at 600rpm all the time. I really don't know what's out there for a mini polisher that is electric, most of the mini polishers I know of are pneumatic like this one http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...%2520polishers
Anytime I've run into a really small tight area that I can't get my polisher into, I just use the same compounds, and an old worn out waffle pad that I've cut into smaller pieces and polish it out by hand. As long as you put some elbow grease into it, and let the compounds break down completely, it will come out looking nearly like it was power polished. The little die grinders would work ok if you could really regulate the RPM, problem with most of those is, until they're doing a couple thousand RPM they have no power, you'll just end up stalling them.

The little Kangke racer shown above was not a chameleon color, It was actually just a really brite silver base with a tangerine Kandy over it. Just 2 colors on the top of that airplane, black, and the Kandy. It looked pretty awesome in the sun though. The bottom looked really cool with a nice checker pattern too but I can't find the pictures of the bottom.
Jeremy

dhal22

i use that one, it works fine. high end foam and wool pads are available elsewhere if you must.

daven

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Thanks David, for the price, I ordered one. Looks like something easy to hold, lightweight, and will keep the rpm down without the orbital action.

Looking forward to giving it a try.

daven

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the cheapo polisher arrived yesterday, and at first glance looks great. Can't wait to try it out in the next week or so.

daven

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the cheapo polisher arrived yesterday, and at first glance looks great. Can't wait to try it out in the next week or so. I will update after I paint the Snaker!

daven

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worked well, am running it on its lowest setting. Definately gotta be carefull with it as it will cut through quick if your not carefull (I had to redo the servo hatch).

worth the money, I prefer it over the orbital one I had been using, much quicker, just need to be carefull.

bodyshopjustin

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Hello All been a while since I did any posting on here at all but caught this thread by accident. I race some 424 when I can find time to in the IL area. I was recently given a project from a friend I believe it is a pole cat. It is Jay Cappis's Plane was standard yellow arf and I am refinishing it for him. I do allot of painting when I can and love doing it. I would say this project was the most challenging to date due to the fact that it had damage that had been repaired and it is a race plane built to be light and go fast. I think in the two weeks I have been working on it off and on my fingers may fall off. A ton of sanding Keep it light and make it look good. However I have since fallen in love with QM40 and want to do more if anyone has crash victims they are looking to part ways with shoot me some photo's and PM. I don't have money to buy brand new due to my two little monsters, but I love building and painting and even more flying pictures to follow. !