Flybarless Helicopters Discuss flybarless rotor head systems for all helicopters right here.

BLADE Nano CP X

Reply
Old 03-26-2014, 08:47 PM
  #1
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default BLADE Nano CP X

Hello,

I went over all 7 pages and did not find a thread dealing with this tiny helicopter.
A friend gave me one of these which raised my interest in helis.

I have a question and research did not provide me an answer. Perhaps someone can help and I would be much grateful.

When the main motor is not energized the three servos follow the transmitter sticks and return to neutral same as the Tx sticks.

What can I expect to happen when the motor is energized ? I am wondering if what I see is normal.

Thanks for any reply.

Zor

Last edited by Zor; 03-26-2014 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Fixed typo
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 11:42 AM
  #2
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

50 viewers and no response . . .

Anyone knows ?

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 12:36 PM
  #3
Mpizpilot
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wading River, NY
Posts: 988
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor View Post
Hello,

I went over all 7 pages and did not find a thread dealing with this tiny helicopter.
A friend gave me one of these which raised my interest in helis.

I have a question and research did not provide me an answer. Perhaps someone can help and I would be much grateful.

When the main motor is not energized the three servos follow the transmitter sticks and return to neutral same as the Tx sticks.

What can I expect to happen when the motor is energized ? I am wondering if what I see is normal.

Thanks for any reply.

Zor
yes, normal
Mpizpilot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 01:34 PM
  #4
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Appears that this is your first helicopter. If so I would not fly it as it's not for a beginner. It is tough and can take a few hits but you may get discouraged quickly if you keep crashing it. It's a well built copter and flies well but it can be a handful.I have one and it's a blast and I'm still learning !
If it is your first heli I would go and get something like a Blade MCX Coaxial and start there. Also , here is a great sight to read through if you are serious about learning to fly helicopters:
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 07:03 PM
  #5
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

Appears that this is your first helicopter. If so I would not fly it as it's not for a beginner. It is tough and can take a few hits but you may get discouraged quickly if you keep crashing it. It's a well built copter and flies well but it can be a handful.I have one and it's a blast and I'm still learning !
If it is your first heli I would go and get something like a Blade MCX Coaxial and start there. Also , here is a great sight to read through if you are serious about learning to fly helicopters:
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/
Yes lyinwalenda, this is my first helicopter that was given to me by a friend who got himself a much larger one.

I have been around RC airplanes for a long time but never before got interested in helis.

My interest in this small heli is not to fly it but was to study how it is made (built) and how it is to be controlled. I found quite interesting how the small servo are made and I studied how they respond.

As I said in previous post I see that the servos are returning to center following the Tx stick controls when the main motor is not energized. I asked what has been observed by other fellows when the main motor is energized. Can you help by answering the question ?

I just wish to read other's observation without influencing them by stating what I have seen. I do not know if what I have seen is normal or not.

I see another posting simply saying it is normal but since I did not write what I have seen then I do not know what the gentleman referred to as being normal.

Again I am not trying to fly it; I am just observing what it does under different Tx settings.

Thanks for responding.

Zor1
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 07:10 PM
  #6
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpizpilot View Post

yes, normal
Hello Mpizpilot,

I was asking how the servos are acting as they respond to the Tx sticks when the main motor is energized.

The response seem different than when the motor is not energized.

I did not explain what I have seen in order to assure that any response is based on actual observation by someone else than me.

Your observation would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Zor1
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:14 AM
  #7
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

When you advance the throttle or collective stick not only do the motors start turning but the pitch curve settings come into play and start adjusting the pitch of the blades to start lifting. Also the cyclic controls become alive when the head starts spinning as well as the gyro that controls the tail. So yes when the motors start the servos start responding to the movements.
If all you want to do is study how they work then read,read,read,the linked article.
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-he...-controls.html
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 07:19 AM
  #8
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Just studying at this time

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

When you advance the throttle or collective stick not only do the motors start turning but the pitch curve settings come into play and start adjusting the pitch of the blades to start lifting.
The above relate to the throttle and collective control. I understand that the settings are done in the transmitter and are existing in theTx at any position of the Tx stick. The receiver decodes the received signal and pass them along to the ESCs. It is interesting to watch the tail motor response as I manually change the heading. I think I fully understand what is going on concerning the main rotor motor and the tail prop motor and also the collective action of all three servos.

Quote:
Also the cyclic controls become alive when the head starts spinning as well as the gyro that controls the tail. So yes when the motors start the servos start responding to the movements.
I have observed differently with my heli. The servos are alive on cyclick even when the Tx throttle stick is down and the motors are not running. The three servos are responding to the cyclick control and the travel and expo settings and follow the Tx stick including returning to neutral (center).

The moment the Tx throttle stick is moved up and the main rotor start turning then I observed the servos respond differently and I asked what others have observed as to how they behave in their heli.

Quote:
If all you want to do is study how they work then read,read,read,the linked article.
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-he...-controls.html
flyinwalenda,

I was asking what other fellows have observed.
Instead you are sending me to read where a link is sending me.
I will try the link and see what is there and let you know if it has answered my question to establish if my observations are what to be expected as normal servo response when the main rotor is revolving.

Thanks from Zor

Last edited by Zor; 03-30-2014 at 07:25 AM.
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 08:03 AM
  #9
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I'm not sure what you are looking for.
Yes the servos move when the motor is not running....fact. They all do this . You can witness the swashplate moving when the servos move.
You program in throttle and pitch curves. These control the servos on the swashplate when the throttle stick moves from zero position....fact. They all do this. Different curve settings instruct the servos to move differently to move the swashplate.. When the main blades start to spin the servos are responding to the programmed curves.
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 08:51 AM
  #10
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post
I'm not sure what you are looking for.
Yes the servos move when the motor is not running....fact. They all do this . You can witness the swashplate moving when the servos move.
You program in throttle and pitch curves. These control the servos on the swashplate when the throttle stick moves from zero position....fact. They all do this. Different curve settings instruct the servos to move differently to move the swashplate.. When the main blades start to spin the servos are responding to the programmed curves.
flyinwalenda,

I will try again to explain better what I am looking for.

Your last post (above) is discussing the action of the transmitter throttle stick control.
That is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about the different action of the servos to the cyclick control _ _ _
When the throttle is down and the motors are not energized the servos follow the movement of the cyclick.

I can see the action on the swash plate . . .
In pitch up the two front servos move equally and the rear servo moves opposite to the front ones.

In roll the two front servos move in opposite motion and the rear servo does not move.

When the transmitter stick returns to neutral (center) the servos also return to neutral.

However the moment the throttle stick is moved and start the motor(s) rotation the above action is changed in my heli. I do not know if what I am observing is normal or not.

I am hoping someone will let me know from their own observations how their servos are acting when the motor(s) are energized and the rotors start spinning.

-----------

I went and looked at the site of the link including the four videos.
There is nothing there answering my question.

I do not know how better to explain what I am looking for. If you or anyone do not clearly understand what I am looking for then we should drop the conversation.

Again, many thanks for your response. It is much appreciated.

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 12:22 PM
  #11
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Third time is a charm?
When the nano is sitting with the throttle stick at zero moving the right stick the linear servos will return to center. When sitting or held in your hand and the throttle is advanced and the blades start spinning the servos when moved by the right stick will not return to neutral like they did when the throttle was off/zero. The programmed curves , the spinning swashplate, AS3X ,all play a part in that.
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 01:16 PM
  #12
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

Third time is a charm?
When the nano is sitting with the throttle stick at zero moving the right stick the linear servos will return to center. When sitting or held in your hand and the throttle is advanced and the blades start spinning the servos when moved by the right stick will not return to neutral like they did when the throttle was off/zero. The programmed curves , the spinning swashplate, AS3X ,all play a part in that.
flyinwalenda,

Thanks again for your valuable time in posting.

Let us stop this discussion. You are telling me what they will not do "not return to neutral".

I am looking for what is the normal thing they do.

Best regards,

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 01:24 PM
  #13
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

If the body of the heli is not moving (on the ground/held in hand)but the blades are spinning and the right stick is pushed forward the two front servos drop down and the rear servo raises. When the right stick is released to neutral the servos will remain in those positions (down and up).
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 01:54 PM
  #14
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

If the body of the heli is not moving (on the ground/held in hand)but the blades are spinning and the right stick is pushed forward the two front servos drop down and the rear servo raises. When the right stick is released to neutral the servos will remain in those positions (down and up).
Ah! _ _ _ thanks flyinwalenda.

You have now confirmed what I had observed but did not wish to put words in other's mouth.

I have observed this to be true for any cyclick action. I was wondering if it was normal because it leads to absolute instability.

I am trying to find why this is so.

I am being interrupted in this posting . . . more soon.

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 02:19 PM
  #15
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Actually the opposite. It's the AS3X Stability system that contributes to this. When you push the right stick forward the stability system expects the nose to go down and the tail to come up and it is trying to hold the machine in this position. Same occurs if you move the stick to the right or left or back. The system will try and keep the machine stable in that desired position, Of course when the heli is moving and the stick is returned to neutral the servos will also return to neutral and help steady the machine in a hover
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:06 PM
  #16
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Experimenting the action of the AS3X

flyinwalenda,

I am in the proess of evaluating your post below and understanding clearly what you are saying . . . .
I am breaking up your text to inserts some comments.
My comments are written in blue color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

Actually the opposite.

If you mean by the opposite as being stable contrary to my statement that the servos remaining at the position of their last command create instability. I will be experimenting to try to see the action of the AS3X device.

It's the AS3X Stability system that contributes to this.

I am really curious to try to prove that to myself. I still have not seen any stability in this heli.

When you push the right stick forward the stability system expects the nose to go down and the tail to come up and it is trying to hold the machine in this position.

I understand that you are saying that following a command forward the AS3X is trying to keep that forward cyclick. That means it results in a forward acceleration until the forward speed creates a drag equal to the forward thrust. It seems to me that it is not appropriate to hover.

My understanding of hovering is to stay over a specific location above ground.
I have not yet seen any videos with this small heli ( or similar ) where that was achieved.
It seems obvious to me that the pilot is constantly inputing commands trying to bring the heli back to a desired ground location. I figure that as being highly unstable.

Same occurs if you move the stick to the right or left or back.

Yes of course . . . same in the roll axis as in the lateral axis.

The system will try and keep the machine stable in that desired position,

Well _ _ _ I figure you mean attituude. The heli is not in the same position ( like the position desired to hover above ground ) following a command in pitch or roll. As soon as the servos have responded to the command, the heli is already accelerating away from where it was.

Of course when the heli is moving and the stick is returned to neutral the servos will also return to neutral and help steady the machine in a hover
Did we not already agree that when the main rotor is reving the servos do not return to neutral ?
They remain at their location where the last command has brought them ? and if so the pilot has no way of knowing or finding the servo neutral position ?

More experimentations for me to find out what is going on.

That is and has always been part of my hobby. What is going on ? How does it work ?
At least for items I have in use.

Cheers,

Zor

Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 04:19 PM
  #17
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Helicopters inherently ARE unstable ! Trying to hover a collective pitch heli is like trying to balance a marble in the center on the bottom of a dinner plate
I fly the Nano, I'm not a great heli pilot (yet) but I can hover it and it's very stable.
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 05:06 PM
  #18
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default I read you

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

Helicopters inherently ARE unstable ! Trying to hover a collective pitch heli is like trying to balance a marble in the center on the bottom of a dinner plate

I fly the Nano, I'm not a great heli pilot (yet) but I can hover it and it's very stable.
flyinwalenda,

i like your comparison to the dinner plate

Usually when the lift is acting above the CG things are stable.
What I see happening here is that the lift is not exactly opposite and has an oblique angle even if small.
It results in a sideways force accelerating the heli in a horizontal change of position.

When you say "and it's very stable" I wonder at what rate you have to keep inputing commands to keep it within let us say one foot of a point over ground or reference point.

Would it stay in location or nearly so for anyting like five seconds ? or do you have to be constantly doing some control action ?

Regards from Zor

Last edited by Zor; 03-30-2014 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Added the words ' or nearly so '
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2014, 06:50 PM
  #19
Rob2160
 
Rob2160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,786
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor View Post
Hello,

I went over all 7 pages and did not find a thread dealing with this tiny helicopter.
A friend gave me one of these which raised my interest in helis.

I have a question and research did not provide me an answer. Perhaps someone can help and I would be much grateful.

When the main motor is not energized the three servos follow the transmitter sticks and return to neutral same as the Tx sticks.

What can I expect to happen when the motor is energized ? I am wondering if what I see is normal.

Thanks for any reply.

Zor
Yes, I totally understand what you are seeing and this is normal on all small Blade Helis with AS3X.

I have 2 x Nano CPX, several MPCXs, 2 Brushless MCPXs and they all do the same.

When the motor is not energised the servos follow the stick control correctly and return to neutral. (and you can do control direction tests accurately before take off)

When you advance the throttle, you are also activating the AS3X, which now is controlling the servos directly. Think of the AS3X as the "Middle man"

It hears what you want from your Transmitter controls and it then translates that to servo movement. The actual servo positions may have no bearing on the actual stick position, because the AS3X is a stabilisation system and is also responding to the attitude of the helicopter.

Try this experiment. Hold your heli, power up slightly so that the rotors are spinning, and then pitch your heli forward and aft by hand without touching the control sticks. The AS3X will adjust the servos constantly to attempt to level the Helicopter.

When you power off the throttle after landing, within a second or two the AS3X disengages and you again have direct control of the servos.

Usually when you land the swash plate will not be centred but within a few seconds it will snap back to neutral as the AS3X deactivates.

The Nano CPX is a great indoor Heli and I usually take one on extended work trips away from home.

(This is in a Hotel room in Perth ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lKl0fCTK6o

Last edited by Rob2160; 03-30-2014 at 07:17 PM.
Rob2160 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 03:45 AM
  #20
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor View Post
flyinwalenda,

i like your comparison to the dinner plate

Usually when the lift is acting above the CG things are stable.
What I see happening here is that the lift is not exactly opposite and has an oblique angle even if small.
It results in a sideways force accelerating the heli in a horizontal change of position.

When you say "and it's very stable" I wonder at what rate you have to keep inputing commands to keep it within let us say one foot of a point over ground or reference point.

Would it stay in location or nearly so for anyting like five seconds ? or do you have to be constantly doing some control action ?

Regards from Zor
When it is set-up properly and trimmed it will hover easily and stay in one spot requiring slight corrections depending on wind. The AS3X helps to keep it level but it's not hands-off.
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 05:50 AM
  #21
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob2160 View Post
Yes, I totally understand what you are seeing and this is normal on all small Blade Helis with AS3X.

I have 2 x Nano CPX, several MPCXs, 2 Brushless MCPXs and they all do the same.

When the motor is not energised the servos follow the stick control correctly and return to neutral. (and you can do control direction tests accurately before take off)

When you advance the throttle, you are also activating the AS3X, which now is controlling the servos directly. Think of the AS3X as the "Middle man"

It hears what you want from your Transmitter controls and it then translates that to servo movement. The actual servo positions may have no bearing on the actual stick position, because the AS3X is a stabilisation system and is also responding to the attitude of the helicopter.

Try this experiment. Hold your heli, power up slightly so that the rotors are spinning, and then pitch your heli forward and aft by hand without touching the control sticks. The AS3X will adjust the servos constantly to attempt to level the Helicopter.

When you power off the throttle after landing, within a second or two the AS3X disengages and you again have direct control of the servos.

Usually when you land the swash plate will not be centred but within a few seconds it will snap back to neutral as the AS3X deactivates.

The Nano CPX is a great indoor Heli and I usually take one on extended work trips away from home.

(This is in a Hotel room in Perth ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lKl0fCTK6o
Rob2160,

Thanks for coming in . I really enjoyed watching the flight in the hotel room.
I have followed the news reported activties concerning the 777 disappearance and have looked at Perth and the airports locations.

I have followed your suggestion and observed the action of the AS3X. At my stage of learning I had the impression that the corrections were quite small.

One thing I did last evening, after finding data about setting the swash plate and the pitch of the main blades, was to find that the setup was far from what it is supposed to be. Since this heli was given to me I have no idea if the previous owner may have changed the setup. If he did not then the factory settings were way off.

I now have both main blades at zero degree pitch with the throttle stick on the Tx at the center of its course. From a visual check I would say that both blades are varying pitch the same amount. That was way off before my new settings. I still have to try if it now can lift off without falling on its side every time.

As I wrote before, I am not really trying to fly it; I am just observing what is happening. I may not have reactions quick enough to fly a heli. Also I am under the impression that the AS3X is not very active. I would really like to see the pilot's action on the transmitter control. I did not see ( find ) any of that kind of video. I suspect that some control input is going on constantly nearly every second and perhaps two or three inputs per scond at some time. I remember a site in which the human reaction was being timed and the fastest was in the order of 1/4 second but the average was more like 1/3 to 1/2 second. As I remember I was about 1/3 second and that would be when I was much younger.

The main thing is that I am fascinated by my findings and considerably appreciate your input and the input from flyinwalenda.

Again thanks to you both for being here.

Zor

Last edited by Zor; 03-31-2014 at 05:57 AM.
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 06:06 AM
  #22
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Making progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post

When it is set-up properly and trimmed it will hover easily and stay in one spot requiring slight corrections depending on wind. The AS3X helps to keep it level but it's not hands-off.
I am quite sure you will have read my post addressed to Rob2160.

I will be making more experiments later today now that I think the setup has been corrected.
I will report.

Zor
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 12:34 PM
  #23
Zor
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,525
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Some generalities

Hello,

Talking about different subjects. Any comments are always welcome.

BINDING
This is the first receiver I have that does not always bind on the first connection to its battery.
Sometime it does but most of the time I have to disconnect and reconnect. This morning the first time I switched the receiver on, it did not bind until the fourth connection. I keep the transmitter about 8 feet away plus or minus a few inches. The second time this morning it bound on the first connection within about 4 seconds. The third time it did not bind; I disconnected and it bound on the second connection.
I will probably never find the reason for such different behavior.
I suspect it is associated with the following on servo response.

SERVO RESPONSE
As visually observed . . .
I connect the heli to its battery while the heli is sitting on the flat desk. I assume that the gyros are setting themselves at that moment. However there is a flat piece of cardboard underneath so that I can lift it off the desk. I start the motor and lift the cardboard and heli about 6 inches above the desk keeping the cardboard horizontal. I do that because it was said ( as I understood ) that the gyros AS3X initialize only after the main rotor is revolving. I wait about 10 (ten) seconds and I start playing with the cyclick controls.

Example _ _ _ I gently move the pitch control up and down about half the Tx stick range (angle). The heli is still horizontal. I also try up to full Tx stick motion. I do the same with the roll control.
I am familiar with the phenomena of 'precession'.
I am noticing that the pitch control is not pure pitch; there is some roll also taking place.
Same for roll control. It is not pure as some pitching is also well visible.

What bothers me most is that the servos are not always responding to the same Tx action.
Example _ _ _ I keep moving the pitch control up and down changing direction of control stick about every second and all is fine. I stop and start again a few moments later and I have no servo response so I stop. I start again and notice the servos respond again normally. All this time the heli is well within 5 degrees of normal horizontal attitude.

It seems like binding right away or having to repeat by disconnecting and reconnecting.

BATTERY CHARGING
The small connectors are for me a pain you know where.
The connectors on the batteries are not solidly mounted and easily get out of alignment to insert the batteries in the charger. I do not mean to complain; just stating the observation.

The original AAs that came with the charger were measured and all were less than 1.3 volts. They are not marked 'alcaline' and have no markings of the type. I put them in anyway but they never fully charged the batteries. I went an bought a pack of 20 Energizer marked alcaline and made in USA.

The Energizers are doing a good job within their limitations. AA alcalines typically have a capacity of 1700 to 3000 mAh. When the heli batteries are bring recharged I do not know how many mAh they need but I am already on my third set of 4 AA Energizers. I have a 6 volts DC supply but it is of the wrong polarity. I could switch the wires but I need it as is for other applications. I dislike installing a DPDT switch and may forget to swith it.

HELI PERFORMANCE

I still have not succeeded to make this small heli to lift up vertically or nearly vertical off a horizontal support. I may never succeed. If I increase the throttle slowly i goes on its side, the blade touch the surface and that is the end. If I increase the throttle a bit more rapidly pass the Tx stick control (zero pitch) it just takes off at high speed toward the wall about 8 feet away before I can even react to it; anothe end..

NO _ _ _ I have not given up yet until I prove to myself that I just do not have fast enough reflects.
I must first try to find why I cannot make it lift up gently instead of rushng for the wall.

Ok guys you can laugh at me and we will be laughing together.

Zor

Last edited by Zor; 03-31-2014 at 12:43 PM.
Zor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 05:00 PM
  #24
Rob2160
 
Rob2160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,786
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi again Zor,

I just wanted to say, nobody is laughing, on the contrary, I am impressed with the depth of your analysis of this little Heli and since I own many of the Blade Helis I can relate directly to everything you are saying.

First I must say, trying to learn to fly with this Heli will be a very difficult task, it is very light and some would say "twitchy", which means it responds fast and requires fast corrections.

Perhaps you could try an MCX2 coaxial, that would give you a much nicer learning curve and keep the Nano CPX for later.

However, if you want to try it for learning I will offer all the advice I have.

1. Binding, you should never have to rebind a helicopter that has been previously bound.

There can be many reasons why it may appear this way.

What transmitter do you have? If you are using an old DSM2 radio, you should turn it on and wait 10 seconds before powering up the Heli. The DSM2 radios must find 2 free channels before they transmit. If you are too fast in turning on your heli, the Transmitter may not yet have started transmitting and the Heli will go into bind mode.

Also, you may be powering up too close to the TX, I noted you said about 8 feet during binding. This is good but you should do it every time you power up also, otherwise this can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THLU8JLr46Q 2. Your comment on servo movement. What you are observing is the AS3X - Even if you you think you are holding the Heli steady, it is moving enough for the AS3X to get out of sync with the stick movement.

In flight, the AS3X compares transmitter stick movements to the motion of the helicopter, and makes adjustments to the servos to achieve what the stick are commanding.

EG, if you want to pitch forward, holding a small amount of forward stick, the AS3X will understand you want to pitch forward. If you are holding the helicopter, and you don't allow it to pitch, then the AS3X will "try harder" and keep inputting more and more forward cyclic on the swashplate even though you have not moved your transmitter stick very much.

Now, if you centre the transmitter stick, the AS3X system thinks the Heli should be pitched forward, but since you are holding it level the AS3X will keep the swash plate tilted fully forward even with controls centred.

Unfortunately I am away from home for 2 weeks or I would make a video for you.

Think of it this way, the AS3X compares 3 things. 1. stick position, 2 helicopter movement, 3 helicopter orientation.

Moving 1, creates 2 and results in 3.

If you are holding 2 - i.e. stopping it from moving, then 3 cannot change either. and the AS3X will keep trying to do it even after you have centred the sticks. Because it knows the helicopter is not orientated as it should be based on previous control inputs.

In flight there is no issue because the AS3X is sensing the correct changes in orientation.

This is also what results in the helicopter tipping over so easily when you power up slowly. It is common with all AS3X helicopters and will happen until you learn the technique to prevent this tip over with correct control inputs.

In the learning phase, it is best to lift off faster and not struggle keeping it straight on the ground.

I know a video would be much easier to understand but hopefully my words are not confusing.

Here are a few other vids I have made in the past for the MCPX, some similarities but please don't use the pitch settings in these vids on your Nano, as it requires different pitch travel settings in your radio.

If you still have questions in a few weeks I will make a video using the Nano CPX that should answer most of them. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHLd6TeHBXo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-J0OapW4QE Note in this last video, I fly Mode 1 so throttle is on the right hand stick..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VKasrPMl0

Last edited by Rob2160; 03-31-2014 at 05:13 PM.
Rob2160 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2014, 05:06 PM
  #25
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,739
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

It seems they all have the issue of not binding on the first try(rapid flashing led instead of solidly lit). Most of the time it will bind OK but sometimes I have to try a few times and I am far enough away from the transmitter so that is not the problem. It's not a big deal for me so I don't worry about it.
The AS3X is expecting the heli to move in the direction you put the sticks in. Holding it level is more than likely confusing the 3 axis gyro thus the random irregular servo movements.What you want is almost impossible to view unless you attach a small micro camera to watch the servos while in flight.Only then will you see exactly what is supposed to be happening.
As far as flying, if you are using the DX4 that came with the RTF package.....good luck! Again, I'm not the greatest pilot but I could not fly this with the pre-programmed DX4. It was all over the place ....like throwing a cat up in the air. I bound it to a DX7 transmitter and programmed a similar throttle and pitch curve that I use for my 450 and 500 helis and it was like night and day . I really don't know how they expect a new /less experienced heli pilot to fly it with that DX4!

Last edited by flyinwalenda; 03-31-2014 at 05:08 PM.
flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:41 AM.