Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft Discuss rc foamie electrics here (i.e. Zagi, Tazz, ProJeti, wingo)

fastest zagi possible debate begins

Reply
Old 09-02-2003, 09:17 PM
  #1
finchero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: delaware
Posts: 188
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default fastest zagi possible debate begins

this is a new thread dedicated to building that fastest zagi possible. add all your ideas please.
to date I built a zagi which I believe unparallel to all others(need a radar gun) the airfoil was reinforced with two light wood rectangular dowels(because they bend in only one direction) motor combo is a mega 16/15/3 with castle creations 25 amp esc, 5.5x4 prop and a lithium polymer 3s3p battery. This plane goes straight up and doesn't stop until I pull back on the throttle. climb rate is unbelievable. the battery has the same voltage as a 10-11 cell (12.30-12.60volts) but weights less then an 8 cell pack. in level flight she screams at what I would guess to be 85mph and that is with me holding back, because once you have the flap it never goes away.(again need radar gun). the wings quiver but no flap do to the spars. flight time 20 min plus (wow). the canopy is my own design made from coroplast. it completely covers the midsection but keeps the airfoil so that the zagi maintains 100% lift through out all areas. add any ideas I'm running out of up grades, thanks finchero
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	106878_44126.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	19.0 KB
ID:	59645  
finchero is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2003, 09:37 PM
  #2
Greg Covey
Moderator
 
Greg Covey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 5,710
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default fastest zagi possible debate begins

Now, put that same power system in a Kavan ProJeti and you'll be doing over 100mph!

The speed limitation with the Zagi is the airfoil. It was meant to be a wide dynamic range parkflyer.
Greg Covey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2003, 04:39 PM
  #3
Dave Lilley
 
Dave Lilley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Schertz, TX
Posts: 109
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

I have seen a few Zagi owners push the limits...only to see their Zagis explode into shower of parts. It was quite cool.

* It also could have been dangerous to spectators and the pilot (depending on where it flap itself to death), not to mention quite expensive.
Dave Lilley is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2003, 02:51 PM
  #4
Trombe
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 782
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

You better watch the current draw from your batteries. I once saw one explode in mid air- Looked pretty cool if you can imagine!
Trombe is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2003, 12:05 PM
  #5
Scott Vader
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

I did one of those Zagi explosions about a month ago. A brand new battery, esc, motor and canopy lost in the weeds! My local hobby shop fixed me up with a 24 inch long 5/16 inch diameter carbon fiber tube spar, which I used to smack myself, no actually I put it in the plane. I've tried full power dives without a quiver. I think the carbon is better than wood as it's much stiffer.

For speed you'll want the surfaces as smooth as possible to keep the air flow attached, but as Greg said the airfoil may be the limiting factor.

I've been thinking about ways to make my Zagi faster too. Here's what the airflow looks like on a zagi at about 30 mph. The red is high speed air moving over the highly curved upper section of the wing, the blue is flow that's already separated causing drag at the rear.

The lower section of the air foil is pretty nice. You know, if you could cut that shape on top, it'd be faster.

Scott Vader
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Us54253.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	62493  
Scott Vader is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2003, 11:13 AM
  #6
Wingman33
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minooka, IL
Posts: 82
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

I Have Been flying some fast wings that are made with a 3 carbon rod matrix and 05 cobalt 5 turn motors useing 6-8 3000mah sub C cells that are matched and jigged with Apc 7-6 electric props pulling 40 amps on 8 cells putting out around 400 watts at 75% efficiency, also some customized Velcom 480 Neodym motors with wattage collets.Zero zagi fap at 80 Mph. Also If anyone is interested in a powerful05 Cobalt motor at a very good Pice Hobby people sells these 05 motors under the Wattage name for 39Bucks it is the same manufacturer that makes the ProMax motors (the EXACT same motor at 1/3 the price I know this because I own some Promaxes too . Just a tip I hope you can use , Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf99287.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	71.1 KB
ID:	64247   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wr55121.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	65.8 KB
ID:	64248   Click image for larger version

Name:	Li21059.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	59.2 KB
ID:	64249  
Wingman33 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2003, 11:57 AM
  #7
finchero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: delaware
Posts: 188
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

wingman33... why have you not gone to brushless yet, you can't beat the reliability and efficiency. a mega 16/15/3 with castle creations 45 amp esc will run only 150.00 and you don't have to replace any brushes. with a 3s3p lithium polymer you can fly 20-30 mins. also how can you rely on solely Velcro to hold your battery packs at that speed.I see that its industrial strength but eventually the grip will fade and your battery will eject, then good bye zagi.my canopy is ejection proof check it out
finchero is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2003, 12:42 PM
  #8
Wingman33
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minooka, IL
Posts: 82
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Hello .Well Finch let me answer some of your questions,Yes the industrial Velcro holds great and allows heat to dissipate and makes battery change out a snap plus 8 sub c cells would not fit under that cheese little plastic hood if I even wanted to use it.as far as Li Po power wish I could afford some Thunder packs but I dont Have 300 dollars for what I would need for my amp draw and voltage so 3300Matched cells will have to do for now.Brush less is nice but not the only way to go every time you put a heavy watt draw on a motor any motor you weaken its magnets. so in a year your magnets will be 3/4 the power was when it was new if your lucky. I make my own controllers at about 20 bucks a pop so this 60 dollar 400Watt combo works for me .Hey its just my opinion and Im nuts so thanks for asking .Have Fun Fly FAST+++++ When I said cheese hood I did not mean yours I was talking about a stock hood..
Wingman33 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 11:50 PM
  #9
bigjake
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: hillsboro, OR
Posts: 15
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

My zagi is motorless, but with a brushless I am sure it could top 100+. I covered mine with carbon fiber all around and I've never seen it flex on a slope.
bigjake is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2003, 05:11 PM
  #10
Cliffw
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 186
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Working on my new XT and am putting twin 020 Astro brushless motors on it
It should be a real blast!
Cliffw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 02:08 PM
  #11
blfinche
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 3
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

You should check out this Zagi. http://www.yourzagi.com/wagmax.htm

Bobby
blfinche is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 12:14 PM
  #12
777
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Winfield, KS
Posts: 301
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Wingman33

I Have Been flying some fast wings that are made with a 3 carbon rod matrix and 05 cobalt 5 turn motors useing 6-8 3000mah sub C cells that are matched and jigged with Apc 7-6 electric props pulling 40 amps on 8 cells putting out around 400 watts at 75% efficiency, also some customized Velcom 480 Neodym motors with wattage collets.Zero zagi fap at 80 Mph. Also If anyone is interested in a powerful05 Cobalt motor at a very good Pice Hobby people sells these 05 motors under the Wattage name for 39Bucks it is the same manufacturer that makes the ProMax motors (the EXACT same motor at 1/3 the price I know this because I own some Promaxes too . Just a tip I hope you can use , Mike
Wingman33,
Which of these Wattage motors are you talking about?
http://www.hobbypeople.net/prdcls/motorac03.asp
777 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 03:47 PM
  #13
Wingman33
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minooka, IL
Posts: 82
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Hi Cliff! Hey guys If your not flapping a standered wing it aint fast yet!And wene you get fast you need to cut 3 channels in your wing in the shape of a squashed A. on down the length of both leading edges 3inches back and one across the center at the poiint of balance ,you can cut with a soldering iron or a router,then you can buy carbon fiber rods from your hobby shop they sell these as Premium push rod tubes.shoo Goo EPP wing rods at both ends and once in the middle. cover as normal WALA 0% flap at awsome speed with Rail like control. Have fun Mike B. Sorry did not see your question until today,( Cant fly,or biuld at my computer) This is the 05 for 39 dollars that with 7 3300nimh mached cells puts ot 390 watts Hobby people(((131500 01836 Watt-Age Super 05, 5-Turn, Direct Drive Motor (7cell) On Order 39.99 )))
Wingman33 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2003, 10:16 AM
  #14
lynnpreston
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 172
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Cliff,

How's the two 020 on the XT looking? That should be awesome. I've toyed with the idea of twin Mega 16/15/3 's on an XT. Of course sanity and budgetary contraints have kept me from trying it. I wonder how much extra speed you can get though, since the engines have a max RPM and therefore can only move the air so fast no matter how many you strap on there. You'll get more thrust, but you still won't be able to exceed the max theoretical speed (RPM * prop pitch), right? The extra engine will only aid in overcoming the drag of the airframe and getting closer to the max theoretical, right?.

Lynn
lynnpreston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2003, 05:30 PM
  #15
scrappyfly8
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

What is the best brushless motor to place on a combat wing to replace the speed 400?
scrappyfly8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2003, 06:31 PM
  #16
Cliffw
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 186
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

I love this one [link=http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=698]Click here to see it[/link]
Cliffw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2003, 06:33 PM
  #17
lynnpreston
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 172
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

The Astro 020 is good, but I personally have a Mega 16/15/3. It's a little hotter than the Astro simply because the Mega is a 3 turn motor. It draws around 25 - 30 amps while the Astro only draws 20, so that is something to consider as well.
lynnpreston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2003, 07:46 PM
  #18
scrappyfly8
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 9
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I'm planning on buying a brushless kit to put on my combat wing in the next couple of days. If I get the mega or astro, do I have to get different battery packs or can use the same 8 cell 1500NiCd packs. And which one Astro or Mega, considering price, performance, etc. Thanks for all your help....
scrappyfly8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2003, 11:09 AM
  #19
lynnpreston
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 172
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

I depends upon what type of NiCD cells you have. As I said, the mega will draw between 25 - 30 amps depending on your prop choice (I use a 5.5 x 4.5 APC). If you were to go that route, you need to make sure your NiCD cells can handle that type of amp draw. Different cell types have different amp-handling capabilities. If you are limited and don't want to buy a new pack, I'd go with the Astro since it has a max current of 20 amps.

The astro will cost you $180 with a controller. The Mega will cost you around $150 with a controller. I prefer the Jeti 30 amp controller instead of the Castle Creations 25 amp that some places try to package with the Mega. I put my wing into the ground at about a 45 degree angle doing around 100 mph - and it landed on asphault! EEK! It skinned my Jeti controller up pretty bad, but it still works great.

The Mega will be a little faster than the Astro, but like I said it draws more current so that = less run time on your battery pack. You will be very happy with either. You will have a MONSTER no matter which one you choose.
lynnpreston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2003, 04:29 PM
  #20
pajamaz
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Hello,
I just got a Zagi XT. It is my first wing, and I was wondering if anyone has any assembly tips do's and don'ts for that kit,
as well with battery charging tips??
I am into electric r/c cars for quite some time, so I wanted to try a wing.
Will my car chargers work on these small batteries? ( I do have peak chargers of all types ).
I must say that I am not out to break any speed records, I want good reliable performance for now.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated
pajamaz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2003, 07:03 AM
  #21
Cliffw
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 186
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

If this is your first aircraft I would avise caution as this is not for beginners at all. If it is your first build it then go get something else to fly till you learn ;-)

These are SCR type batteries and 1700mAh. You can fast charge them but you will get much better life if you charge them at 1-2 amps.

The building is straight forward but get the spars really wet with glue and have someone hold the slit open as you slid them in. Other than that it is easy to build.
Cliffw is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2003, 08:03 AM
  #22
pajamaz
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

Hey thankz for the cautions.
I do have a small park flyer for the wife so maybe this will be a good excuse for her to have a small wing!!

DT.
pajamaz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2003, 05:49 PM
  #23
finchero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: delaware
Posts: 188
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

my zagi has been put on the shelf moved to my home built delta wing and wow just put in a lithium polymer 4s2p pack with my mega 16/15/3 and 135mph.insane
finchero is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2003, 06:34 PM
  #24
lynnpreston
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 172
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

A 4s2p li-poly pack? You're running your mega at 14.8 volts?!?!? What prop are you using? That motor is only rated to 30 amps. How many amps are you pulling at max throttle.
lynnpreston is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2003, 06:55 PM
  #25
finchero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: delaware
Posts: 188
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: fastest zagi possible debate begins

5x5 apc its pulling around 40-43 amps, theretically the motor can handle upwards of 160amp. I know its not the recommended amperage, but pushing it is a little fun also. static pitch speed is 158mph. the esc and lipo are within thier amp range though, I wouldn't play games in this area
finchero is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:31 PM.