Espresso-Outfitters

Fisher, It's nice to be joining the ranks of scratch builders, thanks for the kind words on the quality, I'm ruined as far as an ARF client, I'm looking at my fleet and wanting to unload them at this point, opting to only fly and build my own work.
. I have never seen that thread before, perhaps I'll build another based upon that type of a set up, it looks like it would be alot faster. I do have my own thread I started on another forums to give you an idea as to how much of an educational process it is. You gotta cut and paste it in your browser since the asp coding and server permissions will not allow a direct link to another outside php script for security sakes:

http://www.*********.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12045

Well, just posted this and noticed "*********.COM" was automatically munged up, looks like RCU has some sort of petty grudge against these guys. so will have to munge it adding some extra characters, ie. take out the 7's from the cut and paste

http://www.77*********77.com/forums/...ad.php?t=12045

Critterhunter, I know what you mean upon dealing with these new guys, I think the biggest part of being a good teacher is to cover all of those details that seem obvious to us, directly to them. I've been walking my first RC client through the process of building his ARF, it's a very tedius process since he's totally new to this stuff, but do pride myself for being a good teacher in regards to anything I have an understanding for. I used to get 3k hits to my site a day because I was one of the first to explain html in plain english so shows there is a real need to come down to the level of the beginner and not assume they know anything.

critterhunter

Fisher, found the 27B "manual" on the web this morning and it had a real quick and crude overview of the jumpers. In other words I'm still confused. If you have experience with this thing then give me a quick overview of what jumper configurations put it into what types of flight modes. Not even sure what modes it's capable of now. From what I can gather there is the delta mode (of course....Stryker) and a "T Tail" mode, which I'm going to assume is rudder and elevator for the J3 Cub. Not sure if there is a third mode or what it does? Either way, if that's the only two choices then perhaps T tail will work. The elevator servo for the elevator on the foamie and the "rudder" servo would be used as the aileron?

By the way, I'm pretty sure even the older Non-F27B RX had these jumpers on it as I thought I remember seeing them on an old RX I had. They just didn't have the two pin nimh/lipo jumper.

Fisher

EO,

I looked at the other thread you have been posting on. Great job! Looks like those guys were a big help too.


Critterhunter,

As far as I know you are correct with regard to the jumpers. Delta for the Stryker and Slo-V and T-tail for the Cub, Decathlon, P-51 and ME 109. Set it to T-tail for aileron and elevator control. That is all the P-51 and ME- 109 have for control. Should be good to go then. You will just have to look at the servo motion and figure out which way to mount them.

Now for something completely different. I got a hold of a 5 in 1 usb video camera and filmed about 5 minutes of flight from the SO What #2 yesterday. Good quality video but the file is huge and I need to figure out how to compress it without loosing quality. For $75 this little camera is a kick in the pants. There is a thread on RCGroups discussing it. Some very nice video being taken. I did not realize how much ground my plane could cover in 5 minutes or how bad I was a cinematography.

Anyone know what the largest file size I can upload to this forum is?

critterhunter

Fisher, good to hear you are doing some aerial video. It's great fun, although I've only got my feet wet a little bit thus far with it. I've currently got a CMOS camera mounted to a 800mw 1.2ghz tx that I've used a couple of flights on my BP21 Stryker last summer. The video kept cutting out if I didn't keep the plane orientated to the RX right. But, I believe two factors caused this...The silver chrome paint I used on the body (think it contains metal), and the fact that I didn't have the TX attenna vertical but rather it was horizontal against the wing. I've also now got a 2000mw 2.4ghz tx/rx that I bought off Ebay (great buy at around $60 for such a powerful unit) that I plan to try next. Once you remove the case from the TX it's pretty darn light...although I plan to only fly it on the Extreme. I've also got a Aiptek 5100M digital camcorder (about the size of a pack of smokes but almost twice as thick) that weighs NOTHING (the two AAs it runs off of weigh more than the camera) that I plan to also use on the Extreme. Nice camera and at $89 from Walmart (when they had them) you couldn't beat the price for a high megapixel unit. With the CF card I have in it I think it will do an hour or more of video based on which resolution you have it set at. I just got the Extreme back into the air a few days ago after installing standard electronics in it last fall. Wasn't able to get it to fly right with control rods so I yanked them out and went back to fishing line. She flies great now and with the standard electronics (JR600 RX, HS81 servos, 50 Amp speed control, stock 540 brushed motor, 3300ma nimh packs) I don't have to worry about the original stock electronics bombing out that the stock Extreme was prone to. The stock motor also seems to have much more pep thanks to a real and more efficient speed control in the plane versus the weak original. Now that she's flying again I can play with my cameras soon. It was a battle to win against this plane. Ever since the standard electronics install I couldn't get it in the air. I did a poor job of routing the control rods and that was the issue with flight stability.

Glad to hear you confirm my thoughts on the F27 RX. Looked over the sparse instructions again last night and it became more clear. T-Tail (Elevator/Rudder...or should work as Elevator/Aileron), V-Tail (Delta Wing Mode), and the third is Flight Track...which can be turned on or off with T-Tail to provide some up elevator when rudder/Aileron is engaged). The final jumper is nimh/lipo setting. Thanks again.

I really should be at work at the moment so I'll save responses to other posts for next time.

critterhunter

Fisher, EO, others...Having given my first cut out foamie parts to a friend who is going to throw stock stryker guts into it, last night I decided to cut out another. I didn't time it but it felt like it took less than thirty minutes....maybe twenty. Using the bandsaw like table hot wire cutter really speeds things up. Simply traced my wood jig outlines onto the foam, rough cut them from the 12x8' sheet of foam using my bow cutter, then cut them out on the table hot wire cutter using the wood jigs guide the wire. Quick and painless. The wing airfoil cut using the bow was even faster and had better results than the first one. Although, I do seem to have trouble keeping both ends of the bow moving in sequence over the two airfoil jigs. That will require a tad bit of sanding on the wing to smooth out a high point or two where one got ahead of the other. However, I'm sure with practice I'll get better at that. I like the trick I read about for cutting wing airfoils out. You mark the two airfoil jigs with numbers. You then get the help of a friend to do the cut. You hold and watch one end of the bow and he does the other. As you both move the bow over the jigs one of you says what number he's on as you do a slow and steady cut. The other guy hears where he should be and speeds up or slows down his end to keep in sequence. Anyway, real happy with how much easier this is getting as time goes on. Am heading out in the garage tonight to do some assembly of the parts.

critterhunter

Made more progress tonight. Spent a couple of hours in the garage (first time, remember....should take less with practice) using a hot glue gun to put together the parts I cut out last night. Although Foam Flyer's instructions say to start by gluing the booms to the wing, I followed Fisher's advice and glued the fuse to the wing first. I then used the plane body as my guide to space the booms straight and the proper distance from the fuse. For a person like me who isn't used to doing this kind of work, much of my time was spent scratching my head trying to figure out how to center the fuse to the wing and the booms so they were not crooked. However, I just used a ruler and hacked away at it. Seems straight to me.

Got it all glued together and then realized I didn't have any vertical fins cut yet. Yoked out the meat tray foam that I used for the stabilizer and quickly traced out a pattern. Foam Flyer says in his instructions they should be about 4 inches tall and 6 inches long so I drew a square of those dimensions, then traced an angled line from the bottom right corner to the top about two inches from the other corner. Simple enough. I didn't slit slots in the booms for the fins but rather just glued them right on.

One great thing about using hot glue to put things together is the bond is almost instant as soon as you put the two pieces of foam together because it cools the glue quickly. No need for clamps or such, just hold them together for about fifteen seconds. After they'd bonded I like to then put a line of hot glue at the edges around where the two parts meet, then use my finger to smooth the seam in. Not only does this help strengthen the joined parts more, it also hides any gap between them for a more professional look.

The hard part is keeping them straight, so I would trace a line on the foam with a sharpie to indicate exactly where the edges should meet. Everything came out nice and square with the booms straight and the stabilizer and wing nice and parallel as they should be. However, I did notice that I didn't sand the top of the body quite flat where it glues to the wing and as a resut it is just a hair off in comparison to the wing. Most important part at cutting these parts out is to sand them flat, especially where they are going to meet other surfaces. Not bad for a first attempt, though.

Next step is to cut out the aileron (I know it's easier to do before you put the body together but I wanted to get my feet wet), and to add an elevator to the back of the stabilizer. Then it'll be time to throw in the electronics and finish taping. The only tape on it thus far is Extreme strapping tape put on the bottom of the wing from tip to tip before I glued it to the fuse.

Took it for a test throw and, being tail heavy at the moment, it landed smack dab on one of the boom ends and promptly broke it in half. However, a bit of hot glue and the two pieces went back together in such a way that you can't even tell where it broke. Once those get some strapping tape and perhaps a few carbon robs they'll be good to go. Think I'll wait until tomorrow night to install the aileron/elevator and start installing the electronics.

Thanks again for everybody's help. I'm looking at this thing right now and still can't believe I built it with my own two hands! Excuse the picture quality as it's real bad....but you can see the thing anyway...

ken 68

Critter Hunter I have a project on the board and wondering what the BP21 weighs . Somewhere I read
a bunch of motor weights but it was late when I read it and my OLD brain won't recall . Take care and HAPPY LANDINGS

critterhunter

Ken, I posted weights of the BP21, a brushed Challenger 400, brushed Stryker 480, and even the brushed Extreme's 540 a few months back. Hmmm....where did I post them? There might be weights posted in this thread. I believe I also posted them in the Stryker thread in the Park fliers forum. I also think I posted them in two other threads...."Installing Standard Electronics In A Challenger & Extreme", and perhaps in "Installing Standard Electronics In An Extreme". The thread names may not be exact but I'm pretty sure they are in at least the Challenger thread. At the time I had my hands on a digital scale and went crazy weighing everything I could lay my hands on.

critterhunter

Just dug the numbers up for you. The BP21 with original shaft length (not cut down yet) weighs 1.5 ounces (42 grams). For comparison, a 400 brushed motor (made by Zagi) weighs 2.5 ounces (73 grams). The BP21 had it's stock wires attached but the 400 had none on it, so the weight savings is even more. These brushless motors are little wonders...A good ounce lighter yet with much more speed and thrust, not to mention they are more efficient and don't have brushes in them to wear out.

As a side note, My 2000ma 10C 3 cell Dymond lipos weigh the exact same weight as the 7 cell 900ma nimh packs used in the Challenger and other planes. Twice the run time at a much higher voltage for the same weight. Think my Common Sense RC packs at the same specs might even weigh less.

ken 68

Critterhunter I pecked a reply thanking you and ran out of time. I hate it when that happens. My motors are 54.5 & 46 grams Now I need to find some cheap controlers. I can get a 30 amp for $25 but I havent hunted much yet. Keep up the good work. HAPPY LANDINGS KEN

Espresso-Outfitters

critterhunter very good job, now if you can scrape up the money for a decent camera...hehe.

Your mindset completely changes once you start building from scratch, even more so once you realize you can build more, this is what scratch built is all about, you no longer are at the mercy of some manufacturer. Keep up the good work, I wish you well on your maiden, just finished mine, ready for it's first flight, hope weather allows me to do so today.

ken 68

What are you gentlemen using for controlers. The best I find is a 30 amp for $19.50 + $5 shipping. I have read overkill on controlers is good. Any ideas ?

critterhunter

EO, nice job on that plane! Yea, this camera stinks but then again I see much higher resolution photos and of larger size than what I'm allowed to post. It's either a compression thing or I'm doing something real wrong.

Ken, Yes...it's better to just about double the amp raiting of the speed control for the motor/battery/prop amp draw you'll be putting on it. It keeps the ESC nice and cool and there is less need to provide venting to cool it. However, the higher the amp raiting of the ESC the more weight it will be if that's a concern. I'd say at the bear minimum you want at least 5+ amps more than what the amp draw will be on it. As the two numbers get closer the ESC will get hotter. For example, I'm using a BP30 (Balsa Products) on my BP21 Stryker on a 7x6 prop which draws somewhere in the 14 to 16 amp range. On the other hand, other Stryker owners are using a 16 (18?) amp BP speed control with the same motor and prop. On my Extreme the 540 motor draws around 20+ amps and yet I'm using a 50 amp speed control on it. The BP21 motor and BP30 speed control are not exclusive to them but rather made in China or some place. You can get the BP21 for about $18 and the BP30 cheaper from a company called AureoNauts or something similar (I know I have the name wrong so check around). I believe they might sell on Ebay or may have a website. Put it this way, the BP21 and BP30 can be bought cheaper through them than Balsa, although Balsa was the best price not long ago and I'm very happy with their (American) service. Balsa shorted me a replacement shaft in a package of parts I ordered once and they sent it out for no charge with no questions asked. Either way, anything under $25 for a 30 amp brushless speed control is a great price. Just make sure it's got some good feedback. Probably is the same speed control.

Tonight I cut the aileron out of the wing using my bow. I used the stabilizer wood block (jig) as my guide and just put it where it should be to match the size of the aileron on the wing I needed to cut out and held it by hand. I had the bow locked to a table using a clamp (Plane was already assembled so couldn't use the bandsaw type cutter to do it). I did a few practice cuts with junk foam and felt confident in my cutting and then tried the real thing. I got about half an inch into the cut and the hot wire wouldn't move through the foam anymore. In a panic, after already botching a bit of the cut, I backed it out and found the problem. The Extreme strapping tape I put on the bottom of the wing was blocking the hot wire. Keep this in mind when taping that to the wing as it needs to be done before you glue the plane together. Just measure the wing and make sure you put the tape on far enough forward to avoid the cut you'll make for the aileron, or cut the aileron out first. Wasn't a big deal as I had to sand the cut out area down anyway (bevel it) so the aileron would pivot freely on the wing up and down. I sanded them both (rounded off the touching edges) to allow them to pivot with no binding. Just round them off a bit.

I also cut the elevator out of some meat tray foam. Rather than cut a huge stabilizer and then cut the elevator out of it I did them sperately, although cutting them from each other would probably provide a more matching joining between them. I also sanded these edges just a bit to allow a free pivot between them (didn't take much since meat tray foam is so thin).

Rather than using clear packing tape to mate the aileron and elevator to the plane as described in Foam Flyer's instructions, I decided to use heavy duty DuBro hinges to join them. Real simple if you know what you are doing and provides a much cleaner look to the plane as well as a more free movement. Use an exacto knife or hinge slitting tool to slit the foam on one of the two joined surfaces where you want the hinges to be (I used three hinges on the elevator and three on the aileron). Slit them wider than they need to be to allow right and left movement to match the flap to the body. Insert your hinges into the surface and then line the flap up to the body, marking off the spots on the body where the other end of the hinge will go. Again, mark them wider than they need to be and slit those slots as well. Mate the two surfaces together to see if the surfaces match (one isn't higher than the other, etc), and that the flap will move up and down with no binding. Now pull the hinge ends out of both surfaces as much as possible without them falling out. Pull the pins out of the hinges and lube them with some light weight oil (Very important, this will keep glue from freezing the hinges). Try not to use too much oil that may run onto the hinge surfaces that insert into the body where glue will be needed. Now put some foam safe glue on the two ends of the hinge that are going into the flap and the body and push the two surfaces together. Pivot the flap up and down to make sure it is not binding and make sure the flap is positioned where you want it (the reason why you cut the hinge slots wider is so you can move it back and fourth to get things right). Let it dry and you are all set. The oil on the hinge pin and hinges in that area will prevent any glue that may have run off the hinge surface areas that glue into the body from freezing things up. Much cleaner look than tape and more free flap movement.

The plane is now ready for electronics. I need a day or two to think over the servo placement (Fisher says they should go into the booms below the wing) and more specificly the control rods to get things proper. Tips or advice (Fisher?) welcome. I'm getting close!

ken 68

Critterhunter Thanks for the info. I guess the 30 amp for $24.50 will work for me as the motors are 15a
A friend told me to use vasoline on my hinges cause it don't run. I have a bipe project in the works and had never used nylon hinges before and thats how he told me to do it . My hinges don't come apart. Yep
I wish I had a camera myself so I could document my build on the CNC cutter. Since I have started I have made major changes before even starting on the axis. I guess im ahead making changes now. My bipe is a Lee Stangel Kit that uses .10 to .20 nitro but could be cut from foam SO easy. Love those flat bottom wings. ( Clark-Y ) Have any of you guys ever cut out the center of a fusalage ? Or should I build one up. Oh Hey The last two times I had to go to the hospital I brought the trays home with me 11X16".
There had to be a reason I kept them there thicker than meat trays . Got to go now but remember . IM WATCHING YOU.

Espresso-Outfitters

Good job again upon getting it this far, you are looking for symmetry, so find the center of it all, mark it with a crayon or something you can remove easily and line everything up that way, now we just need the numbers from fisher for that value.

Made the maiden flight today, it's underpowered since I modded it for durability over weight, so is slightly heavier, which is not a bad thing since wind is a regular here, so I should keep it in tact in that area to help handle it better, ie. it's harder for the wind to offset something of greater weight and poower. Overall, did mange to get it slightly off the ground regardless, I just have to revise the power train and use either geared or belt driven instead of direct drive..

critterhunter

Probably headed out into the garage tonight to install the electronics. Have to put new gears in one of the HS81 servos I'll be using. I still have a concern over the control rods based on where the servos should be mounted (inside the booms under the wing). The servo to control the elevator is going to be tricky routing it's control rod and horn placement, as well as the servo for the aileron as the aileron edge is not flush with the side of the boom. Think this is why Fisher said he used a funny "S" curve in his control rod. Also wonder what's the best thing to use...piano wire or plastic sleeved control rods as I have both laying around. Unless Fisher chimes in soon and perhaps has some photos to post of the plane belly and how he did his servos/rods I'll just have to hack away at it until I figure out something that works. Picked up various colors of that H20 paint from Walmart that is safe to paint regular foam with like this. However, one thing has me scratching my head...I also had picked up some "foam safe" spray on glue to help the tape stick to the foam as I install it. The wing Extreme strapping tape I had put on had to be lifted so I could cut the aileron as I said before. Figured I'd spray it with the spray glue to help it stick back on and the glue started melting the foam! Luckily it stopped before it eat a hole through to the top of the wing but now I've got to putty that area with some of that light weight body spackle. Not a big deal since I might just spackle the entire body to really smooth it out before painting. Wasn't planning on going into much detail on this first foam build of this plane but might as well give her the full treatement. I know I'm asking for trouble by painting this thing before I even maiden it to see if it works. However, so long as COG is proper I shouldn't have any trouble besides a little trim. There, now I've just gone and jinxed myself.

Espresso-Outfitters

sleeved control rods are going to be the best route to go since it's designed to reduce friction. Along mounting servo's and rods on anything new, start with the placement of the control horns, hold them in place lightly, and place your wire next to them, pointing towards the general area you are going to be carving out a spot for the servo's. I found doing it the other way around to be counter productive, that's where you have to start making those crazy "s" bends to make up for it. The less of a bend, or curve within the wires the better since they will have a tendacy to buckle unless positioned in an exact straight line. The tricky part on the exit ports for the wires in the fuse is drilling the proper angle, even a degree or 2 will change it's overall final placement when it comes to mounting the servo's since the distance to it will increase and follow the final angle. That and making sure your control surfaces are not going to bump into the rest of the plane when you try to move them with the controls.

I personally do not look at sevo's as being that big of a deal since their weight is minimal, so if it's forward or aft on the wing a bit, it's not going to affect flight, just the closer you get to the aerlon, the less play and of course, you'll want to use the piano wire for those to make it simple. I reference this last build as well as the other foam creations in regards to the weight issue.

Along painting and spackling, since this is the first one, it actually should be done so you can get practice, this way if you make mistakes, or it doesn't come out as planned, you can blame it on the fact that you are learning and this is the first one, so doesn't have to be perfect.

Fisher

Critterhunter,

Sorry I have not posted sooner. I used the sleeved Dubro control rods. Package of two for $3.00. I also did what EO outlined. Located the control horns and then placed the servos where they mad sense. After locating the servo locations and cutting out the foam to make room I hot glued the servos into place. The are rock solid and are easily cleaned up when you need to remove them for installation into the next plane. I think your spray adhesive ate into the foam because you sprayed it onto the foam. Seems to do fine if you spray it on the tape first and let is dry before making contact with the foam. And YES you are asking for trouble by painting it before the maiden but it does make for a more noteworthy crash. I will try to post pics of the electronics this evening.

I have been using the HS-55 servos with outstanding results. This plane is not too abusive to servos.

critterhunter

Fisher, yep....I would have opted for HS55 servos as they tend to be a bit lighter (but less heavy duty) than HS81s. However, since I now seem to have a pile of HS81s and HS81 parts laying around thanks to my brushless Stryker excursions, I figured I might as well stick with them. They are probably overkill for this build but still. You have both servos under the wing in the booms, right? Think I'll skim back to your photos earlier in this thread where you show the underside and see if I can get some ideas. What method did you use to attach the BP21 to the body. Read on for what I did but I've got concerns. Also, are you using straight elevator/aileron control channels through the TX or did you mix them in some way? I would figure straight with no kind of mixing is the only way to set it up but as said I've never dealt with an elevator/aileron plane before. By the way, thanks for the tip on the spray glue. I did spray directly onto the foam and used a lot. I'll try the tape and letting it dry a bit like you said.

EO, Thanks for the info as well. This morning I cut out a thin wood mount to screw the BP21 motor mount onto. Since this is only sitting flush onto the back of the fuse I wanted to attach something to it that would go into the foam body further for more grab. Foam Flyer uses wood doll rods but since I didn't have any sitting around I had to improvise. I've got a pile of plastic wing pegs for the Aerobird Extreme so I used two of those. I simply put the end cap on one end of the peg (with glue to keep it there), then glued the end cap to the back of the wood mount. Did the same with the other peg. I then hot glued the back of the wood mount and the peg surfaces and stuck the sucker into the back of the fuse at the top, quickly snugging it flush and straight with the back of the fuse. I then used a bit more hot glue around the edges of the wood mount where it meets the foam and and smoother any gap of with my finger. It should hold but I'd a bit concerned that the torque from the BP21 motor is going to break the mount out of the foam. Still, you have to try the easiest approach first. I also took Fisher's lead and cut the back of the fuse down to flush with the trailing edge of the wing. In other words, I didn't cut just a section out of the fuse end where the motor would go. Didn't bother tapering it either as detailed in Foam Flyer's plans.

Don't know if I already mentioned this but I picked up some flat carbon "rods" for the bird as well. I'm going to put one on the very bottom of both booms and the fuse. These should strength them against flex or breaking as well as provide a strong skidding surface to prevent road rashing the foam when landing. I've also got some carbon tubes laying around if I care to add one to the wing. As for the meat tray foam used for the stabilizer, elevator, and fins...I may use some flat carbon "rods" on them in a strategic place to prevent any flex. The stabilizer isn't every stiff (will flex up and down easily) and that will for sure get one. For the fins I may just run a piece up the leading edge to stiffen them.

It's been raining and cold for four or five days here in Ohio and this front of rain and cold 50s is supposed to keep circling over us for another 6 or 7 days, so I've got plenty of time on my hands to get this plane done. Perhaps by tonight it might be painted and ready to try.

critterhunter

Fisher, once again my lousy memory leaves much to be desired. Flipped back some pages and found some good photos of the belly of your plane. I can see the control rods, horns, and servo placement well. Printed out the photo as it also gives me a good idea on where the ESC, rx, etc should probably be. I also saw another photo of your motor mount for the BP21 and it looks (on the surface, anyway) to be much like mine. A thin piece of wood (I used plywood...much stiffer than balsa at the same thickness). Don't know what you may or may not have inside the foam but I'm guessing you at least did the wood woll rod thing detailed in the plans? One difference is I have the fuse cut flush with the trailing edge of the wing now. Thought you said you were doing that (maybe in builds after the photo?), but if anything it just means my lipo will go a bit further back in the fuse to get COG proper...which aint a bad thing. Either way, thanks again for your excellent photos and pioneering this build for us other newbies. I've learned a lot by your mistakes.

I'm hoping that within a day or two (or tonight if I'm real lucky) I'll be posting a photo of my completed and painted bird.

Espresso-Outfitters

The Carbon tubes will be stronger then the flat carbon stock, if you go with the flat carbon stock, sticking them on end, ie. short side facing up and down, you will get more rigidy, this is exactly the same thing I do when I build base frames for the carts I build, also don't forget, balsa is alot lighter, so may be an option in that area since carbon fiber is rather heavy. The trick to mounting anything to foam, you are going for surface area, the more you can get to contact with what you are putting in, and to each other, the better. I like your idea on the revisions, I think I'll incorporate that into mine, as well as mount removable mounting trays for the servo's so I can install and remove them closer to traditional construction. 5 days and no work, I long for those days, would be an airplane building fanatic, it's sunny and hot here, so looks like another California style Wa. summer.,

ken 68

Question --- comment ? what about making a T with the carbon ? With epoxy it would be almost as strong as tube. Thats what came into my old brain. Critterhunter its time for more pictures. I have totaly enjoyed reading the threads and have learnd a lot about electric. BUT the vidio of the li-po burning scared me. I think if I get some i'll keep them in a fireproof box. That guy just got it out of the plane. That would have been a burndown. Why do they do that ? Youall have a gooden. Ken in Tenn.

Espresso-Outfitters

A t or an L will work even better, you need to keep in mind, you are adding more weight, both from the epoxy and the extra material. I use 1" by 2" aluminum tubing and U channel in what is built into the carts to give you another idea.

Espresso-Outfitters

Not replying or editing my own post, but should toss this on the table as a new twist on the original bird.

I have a Fun Flyer, mentioned before, will take it out for it's last spin when I get time, I'm going to tear it down to it's basic components and create another based upon the current design this topic is about. I like the bird, but I'd like more accuracy on it since it has now been battered and wasn't exactly straight and COG was way off since the receiver wire is 3 times longer then the plane itself.

The wires are just over the size of a human hair, so will take a very gentle touch, but the idea here is to make one of much smaller scale as the original using this mini flyer for the RC end. I like the plane, and have had alot of fun with it, flying in micro RC land, so might as well integrate it into this one since it's a simple design to work with, "makes it easier to handle on the micro scale". Not even sure if I should bother pulling out the foam cutter on this one sicne the wings will be flat stock given a bend for the aerfoil, but will make a nice, end of day diversion without having to commit larger efforts upon compared to regular RC builds.

ken 68

"Woodman" I was reading last night about coiling the exess wire and it made an alarm go off. I owned and opperated a CB shop in one of my other livesand when we had extra coax to keep the SWR from changing we coiled and then flattened and taped the coax BUT you couldn't use black tape because it would change the standing wave. The black color is made with carbon. Question is Could you coil and flatten the exess antenna wire or wrap it around a straw ( I also made my own antennas ) My heilical wound top loaded antennas would hear better than the rest. Good enough that the idea was stolen and called the PAL FIRESTICK. I do know the length is critical for proper ressonense ? It would make a good study to range check using differant ways. What frequency are you opperating on with such a long wire ?
Good morning its time to walk the dog. K