ken 68

Russel-RC Your idea works great for water balloons. My son had one they took to the races at Knoxville Ia. Took 3 people to shoot it . Your plane would have to be pretty strong to launch with that much power but it sure should SKY. K

EvaderMaster

Hey, I'm a little late but.......... Can you run a 400 size motor dirrect dirve in this homebuilt foam plane?

critterhunter

Made more progress last night. Taped Extreme strapping tape onto bottom of both booms and bottom of fuse. Also placed it on the nose of the fuse all the way up to where it meets the wing. Already had strapping tape on the bottom of the wing before plane assembly, but figured I'd add a strip to the top of the wing as well. Clear tape over the leading and trailing edge of the wing and stabilizer. Clear taped the entire elevator as well as the fins for more strength against flexing. Also clear taped over any flat carbon to improve airflow.

Next step was to check battery placement for COG. Wow...further near the nose than I expected but still comfortably back far enough to keep the lipo safer. Traced around the lipo on the foam and then melted out a chamber. Here's a tip...if you use the soldering iron while it's warming up and not completely hot you'll have much more control over the chamber you are melting out. Wish I would have figured that out before I melted the servo holes. Since the lipo is almost the same width as the foam I did melt this chamber completely through. Glad I saw Fisher's pictures first because I probably wouldn't have thought of laying the lipo on it's side in the chamber. Used Epoxy on velcro formed into a loop with an open end to secure into the battery chamber. This allows you to easily secure the lipo by just snugging the two velcro ends together, forming a complete loop around the battery.

Installed the battery and checked COG once more. Just a hair tail heavy but this was exactly what I wanted. I am going to put Extreme tape completely covering both sides of the fuse from the leading edge of the wing to the nose, of course cutting a hole where the battery is inserted. In other words, since I am no master of constructing sentences...the entire fuse will be covered in Extreme strapping tape in front of the wing. This should help keep her more bullet proof on a nose in. With this little bit of extra weight the COG should be perfect. I'm also probably going to replace the clear tape I have covering the electronics with strapping tape, then put a piece on the other side of the fuse to match. It'll help strengthen the fuse a bit as well as performing it's intended function...to cover the electronics. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.

Now, I know foam flyer says to keep the battery chamber open on both sides so the cells get airflow (also a good reason to lay a lipo on it's side, thanks Fisher), but one side open should be good enough. On my stryker with same motor and lipos the battery is only exposed at the top where it is covered by a vented cover and still stays cool...only getting slightly warm after a full WOT flight. So, I'd figure the configuration for it on this plane should also do well.

I may have jumped the gun on thinking this plane's RTF weight would be getting pretty heavy. I think I must have been tired the other night when I was judging the weight by hand. Last night I was holding it in it's RTF state and thought it felt much lighter. Maybe the Epoxy lost some weight as it dried? Either way, she feels lighter than my brushless Stryker and it weighs about 22 or 23 ounces, so I'm guessing this bird is in the 18 to 20 ounce range....right in line with Foam Flyer's original plans that gage it at 16 to 20 ounces. I'll know for sure once I finish up taping the fuse and take it up to the post office self serve scale (these people probably think I'm nuts, but my stock line will be "It's my kid's and I have to ship it to him). Plan on doing that tonight. If the weight is about where I want it she's getting paint and maybe some body spackle.

critterhunter

Never too late to join in on this build. Welcome. The original plans (page 1 link) call for using a 400 direct drive and an 8 cell nimh pack. I'm sure you can mix it up a bit, using probably even a 6 or 7 cell nimh pack. A 480 should also work fine with it. In fact, I'll be helping a friend put his stock Stryker electronics into one. It uses a 480 and 7 cell nimhs. Change the jumper on the stock RX to get a elevator/aileron configuration (I think this is the same RX found on the J3 Cub, P51, and a few others if you have a junk Hobbyzone/Parkzone plane laying around).

ken 68

Fisher I think Evader is picking on you cause where I fly I don't stir up any dust. But you have a point. If you don't get to far off the ground a crash don't hurt so bad. Good morning Critter

Espresso-Outfitters

This is the last post I make to RCU. The people that manage RCU really pissed me off, good luck with your endeavors gentlement, I'm utterly outta here, will hook up next when I create a better forums "won't be asp driven" without all of the self rightous, holier then thou attitutde trying to hock cheap wares from the posters works.

critterhunter

EO, sorry to hear you are leaving us but hope you'll change your mind and come back soon.

Finished the plane tonight and am waiting for the H20 paint to dry as we speak. I opted for desert storm camo. Used a sand color tan for the entire plane, then put dark brown blotches randomly on it to create the camo pattern. However, I'm afraid I'm not as artistic as others when it comes to painting free hand. The sand color looked great but I think I went overboard with the brown blotches. They are much too big for my tastes. Not as good a job as Fisher's desert storm paint job, I think. Will be posting photos tonight. Just have to make sure I didn't lock the hinges or control rods with the paint. Had oil on them but better to check before powering up and stripping a servo.

I had to move the battery chamber a bit further forward to get proper COG. This means it's a bit longer than it needs to be and I have to move the velcro strap forward a bit. I'll fill the excess chamber area with spray in "Great Stuff" foam or just some packing foam. Ended up also using the Extreme tape over the entire fuse...top, bottom, and sides to prevent road rash or flex, then simply cut out the tape to expose the already created battery chamber. She still felt light before I painted her. Picked up a digital scale ($30 at Staples) so I'll have a RTF weight to post as well. My main concern is not so much weight anymore but rather my botched airfoil. Man I hope this thing flys. Could have body spackled her to smooth things out before the paint job but I'll save that for the next build of it.

I know this thing hasn't flown yet and might not with my questionable airfoil flaw but just wanted to encourage others who have never built a foamie from scratch to give this plane a try. It's not a hard build. Most of the time is spent thinking over what needs to be done in steps to complete it. I personaly can not believe I built a plane from total scratch and have a great deal of pride invested in this. I'm sure my friends will stamp that pride right out when it doesn't fly on it's maiden, so I'm going to enjoy the moment.

ken 68

CH If you make a mistake you darn well better learn from it. You have made a tapeball. Thats what the guys that combat call them cause they go crazy with the tape but they say you can cartwheel down a paved runway and not hurt it. Im with Fisher. Build it light and expect to do some reglue. Im going to homedepot soon and will get a sheet of blue. K

critterhunter

Ken, I've cut my teeth on building the Stryker as bullet proof as it gets to hold up against the harsh G's the BP21 can put out, along with the extreme aerobatics the Stryker body is capable of producing. I started out with the bear minimums of reinforcements on it in stock form, then added more and more mods when the weak points would pop up...until I reached a point where no more mods were needed for further strength. Still, my macked out Stryker is only about an ounce or two over it's stock form...which aint bad considering the carbon rods and tape I've used on it. In fact, I used a bit too much glue to set the rods and a little more tape than I had to, along with larger magnets and metal for the hatches than needed, so there is plenty of room to save weight while keeping the same modifications for strength.

On this bird I've probably done the reverse, going all out at first with the strength mods instead of progressing with them as needed. As time goes by and I get an idea of what this bird does and doesn't need I'll build it with less modifications. I just had the extra time on my hands to tinker with it and decided I wanted the first one to be able to take a ton of abuse. Believe me, at first I fully intended to keep it to the bare minimums...hot glue and Extreme strapping tape. But, as said, I'm thinking now that the RTF weight may be well within the 16 to 20 ounces specified by Foam Flyer's plans. If so, I'd rather fly a bullet proof bird than something that I'm constantly having to repair. Can't wait to it dries so I can weigh it.

I wasn't happy with the brown spots on the paint scheme so I went back out to the garage and misted over it with the tan/cream/sand whatever you want to call that color. Came out much nicer but now I'll be waiting for the paint to dry overnight. Also painted a black canopy onto it but it developed a few black drip marks that I'll have to touch up later. Took a few pictures with the good camera to show you guys. Going to try now to upload them and see if RCUniverse won't choke on them...

critterhunter

Picture try #1...

critterhunter

Another...

critterhunter

Colors look a little dark and not as good as in person. Light levels were getting low in the garage...

ken 68

You arnt fooling me a bit you want to keep # 1 so yer going all out on strength. I watched some vidio of the stryker and the mod. ones are quick. I also have been watching the A-10 on bigger turbines but I want a plane that flys on its wing not motor. I have 4 30" clark-Y foam wings i'd like to make something with Maybe go for 48" single pusher.I bought 2 motors last week and know nothing about them. One is a
2408-21 and a 2410-12 1530KV. Im hopeing one of them will work If I can make plane light enough. I want a 5 servo plane. What do you think ?

ken 68

OK CH Yer looking good but you need lights so you can fly tonight and let us know how it is. K

critterhunter

Simply put...I hate a plane blowing apart in a mild crash or less than perfect landing. After going through Stryker bodies like they were hamburgers at McDonalds I decided to learn the tricks of the trade and bullet proof the bird while keeping weight close to it's stock raiting. Considering it's only an ounce or two over a stock one but with a much stronger brushless motor and twice the flight time, and the fact that I'm amazed at the punishment it can take with just a few simple strength mods (much less than what I put on this foamie), I'm very happy with it. In the early days I suffered through broken foam in the motor mount area, wings that would flex or blow off completely in hard Gs, front ends that would start pointing upwards after a few hard nose hits, etc. Two carbon rods (wing tip to wing tip and nose to tail) crossing directly under the motor mount killed several weak points with one stone. A little Extreme tape to help and she's a tank...An 80+ mile an hour tank that can turn on a dime, mind you.

Not sure what to expect from this foamie yet but that's half the fun. While I don't think she's going to be all that heavy at all, when I first saw these plans the thing reminded me of a P38, Warthog, or just that "look of strength". So, I figured why not build it like a tank as well?

Really screwed up the black on the canopy as you can see in the pictures. Will fix that tomorrow.

ken 68

Come on put a peice of waxed paper on your brand new scales and tell us what it says. With the plane on it of course. Ha !

critterhunter

Just weighed her this morning. The grand total RTF weight is 20.4 ounces. Not bad at all, being only .4 ounces over the 16 to 20 ounces designated by Foam Flyer's plans. I put the paint on pretty heavy and had to correct the camo scheme afterwards, so I bet I could have kept it around 18 to 19 ounces if I had a more experienced hand at spray painting. Will post an update when she attempts her maiden. Thanks again for everybody's help.

ken 68

Glad the weight came in good. Next we get to hear how it flys. Im adding up electronics for one a bit bigger IF the motors I posted are big enough. 4 servos and receiver 49 grams motor 46 grams. Am I in limits so far ? I need to get a dope scale so I can keep track. Less than 3 1/2 oz. without bat. + plane. I think I can make it. Got to go. K

critterhunter

Ken, I'm not too familiar with KV raitings and such on motors so you'll need to ask elsewhere. However, the weight of the electronics (did you include the speed control?) is well within limits I'd say. Very light, in fact. You should be good but you'll need to find out how many ounces of thrust the motor produces on whaver battery and prop you plan to use, etc. I'd ask in the motors forum and get some ideas.

It's rained here in Ohio for almost ten days straight and been very cold for this time of year (50s), so I don't know when I'll get to maiden her. Gives me time to re-check the trim and put a final tweak or two on her. The bird is still just a tad tail heavy so I need to correct that. I am going to spray foam into the excess area of the battery chamber to really snug the lipo in there and I'm adding another velcro strap so the battery will have two wrapped around it to hold it in place. If this doesn't bring the COG that last little bit forward to where it needs to be then I'm going to have to (cringe when I say it) add weight to the nose. If I have to do that I'm going to opt for a thin piece of aluminum formed to go over the very leading edge of the nose to act as a nose guard and give me that last bit of extra weight.

There's a couple of reasons why I'm probably having trouble with the COG, not wanting to move the battery any further forward because I don't want to thin out the foam in front of it anymore. One would be the strength mods I did further back on the body. The other would probably be the excessive amount of paint I used. The speed control is as far forward as I could put it without lengthening the motor wires...which I didn't want to do. I also think the fuse could have been glued further forward on the wing. I followed Foam Flyer's plans to the letter which said, I think, the fuse should stick out ten inches in front of the wing. Whatever number it said I used. I ended up cutting off the tail end of the fuse so it was flush with the wing. In retrospect, I should have not cut the fuse shorter but just moved it forward. This would have gave me an extra inch or two of length in the front. No big deal, though...any longer fuse in the front would have made it look funny...Or, "more funny", I should say.

ken 68

I did forget about the controler another 22 grams so im at 111 grams then I need connectors, linkage, and I still don't know what im going to use for a battery. The power increase from 8.4 nic. to the 11.1 poly
is a bunch. And the dif. in weight is a bunch.------- But darn Im charger poor allready and will need another to go lipo. OK whats the cheapest way to charge a lipo ? Why won't my Tower hobbies 420 work ?
Why don't someone make an adapter? Darn ! I like the 420 it works AC or DC. OK one of you smartys draw me a circuit to make it work. I PUT A CHALLENGE OUT THERE !~~~ Time to go dig out my hot wire power supply. K

YES we have had rain for quite a while. Today its beautifull but a bit windy. My electric loves the wind and goes straight for the trees. ? Maybe it don't like the wind and is hideing.

Fisher

I think that this plane could be used for gliding if you take EO's earlier advice and lengthen the wing a bit and add some dihedral. You would want to add a carbon tube to strengthen the wing as well.

On both of my builds the planes came out tail heavy. I had to trim the elevator into the down position to keep the nose down during high speed flight. This meant that the plane would climb on first flight which is just fine. Better that then diving into the ground 10 feet out.

Critterhunter,

Can you down load Compufoil yet. You need to get a good airfoil template for future builds. Especially if you plan to scale the plane up.

Your plane looks great. It will look even better in the air. Get her up! Funny how everyone else is hot for the first flight cause it will be fun to hear about not matter how it turns out. The builder on the other hand is always a bit reluctant to go for it due to the potential of a 3 second dive into the ground.

One thing to keep in mind is that the elevator has a lot of control authority but the aileron is minimal so do not expect to roll like it is attached to a drill. Get a lot of altitude and roll left if you are going to try a full roll. One fun thing to do is fly by 2 or 3 feet off of the ground and pull a loop ending where you started, right in front of you. Very fun. I was using the trees at the local park for a slalom course. Worked great. No low flying branches.

The family will be gone for a week this summer. I will try to build a double the dimensions version of this plane if CH has not beaten me to it. Probably try a BP-12 brush-less for slow flight. Just for looks. Big and slow like CH describes.

Sorry to see EO dropping out of this thread. Assume he will be back sooner or later

ken 68

Fisher Glad to hear What you said about the larger plane with some dihedral. Im thinking not much just enough to smooth the landing. I have some wings that im thinking about recuting to a taper. And what or where do i get some super flexable ? Control rods. Ones that I can put the servo out front and have 2 ailerons. I fly with ailerons cause my ruder hand does enough trying to
control the throdle

Fisher

Ken 68,

The control rods I have used are thin wire in a plastic sleeve. You can purchase the wire and sleeve material at most any LHS. Just tell them what you want to do and they will steer you to the right stuff. You can even hot glue the plastic sleeve right to the foam.

CH,

You have all weekend to post your maiden flight report. Good luck!

ken 68

Fisher Your talking about something like fishing leader. I plan to cut a grove where it goes to keep the airfoil as clean as I can. The LHS is not much more than a toy store compared to some . But i'll give them a try.My motors should be here soon and the build will start. I told son inlaw before the family leaves for fla. I need foam. Should I put arrow shafts in the booms ? I read someone broke one on a toss. Or kabob skeuers ? I figure with enternal strength I won't need so much tape. Yes I got to be differant. But I have read the tapeball builders use something inside the wing.And on the leading edge but theres so many ways it
can be done. COME ON CH were ready to hear from you.~~~~ K

Fisher

Ken 68,

You need something a bit stiffer than fishing leader for the control rod. More like stiff guitar string. Most hobby shops have a set of sleeved Dubro control rods that are flexible. I do not have a part number but could look this weekend if you need more info. I am talking about something like what is in the Park Zone P-51D.

A carbon fiber arrow shaft in the wing would certainly stiffen it up. I will be putting one or two in the larger scale bird once I get off my A#$ and build it. As for the booms I have been covering 3 sides if each boom with the extreme strapping tape and it stiffens them up nicely. It also protects the foam from dents and gouges. So the tape serves two purposes, stiffens the structure and protects the surface. I have found the tape to be more than adequate for this. Adding extra stiffeners in anyplace other then the main wing seemed to be overkill. But what the heck.