critterhunter

Well, today I finally got around to taking both the foamie and my new Stryker build out for their maidens. I went to a park I just heard about where a bunch of electric plane guys get together as an unofficial group (No AMA or dues) to fly. There was a good many people there (10 to 20) and they said it was a light day because of the cold and semi-strong winds. It was real fun seeing different planes fly and I got to see a few fly I was curious about such as the Parkzone Mustange, which flew real nice by the way.

Anyway, first off with the Stryker. Launched it with full throttle and she instantly belly landed hard and broke the tip of the nose off. No big deal as a new nose is only like $2. Could glue this one back together but I prefer her looking pristine for now. Gave it more climb on the trims and off she went. She was REAL twitchy so I instantly landed her and lowered the rates a good bit. Hmmm....with this new 12T motor my rates need to be much lower because for some reason the bird has much more response at everything. Flew her again and this time I could manage the plane decently. Got it trimmed out as best I could in the wind but I'm sure it could use more on a calmer day. That 12T is FAST and, even with going heavy on the glue, paint, etc and her weighing in at 26.7 ounces she looked like she would do unlimited vertical! Was hard to tell with the wind but every time I pointed her straight up she would climb until I was worried about being able to see her and had to level out so I think this motor can push even that much weight straight up unlimited. Two good flights out of her and I'm happy so far. No other damage other than a broken nose. $2 at the hobby store will take care of that. Even though this motor on an 8x6 prop pulls close to 30 amps these 2200ma 20C 3 cell lipos from RCHotDeals gave her nice long flights at full throttle. Very happy.

Onto the foamie. After the first bad maiden launch with the Stryker it reminded me to get on my knees and do a few test throws into the wind. So I did that with the foamie and she was pulling right. Hmmm....they normaly like to pull left without being trimmed out and I only had a little down aileron in her to compensate for that and make it go right. Even though I used heavy duty dubro hinges in the aileron and elevator I had taped over them as well this time for added strength and better windflow and this appears to be the reason why it needed far less right trim to get it right. Only a hair down on the aileron to get her level. So, off she goes at about half to 2/3rds throttle (this foamie doesn't like a full throttle launch) and she took off nice and easy. A little left/right and up/down compensation and she was flying like a champ. Even though this build is a good bit nose heavy (by about half an inch or more) it didn't require much climb in the elevator at all. The booms being moved forward to near the leading edge of the wing as well as being moved about an inch or so further apart (making the tail end wider) didn't seem to matter to her either. Got her flying trimmed as well as could tell in the wind and then killed the motor to be sure she wouldn't drop like a rock on landing. All seemed fine and back to doing some circuits. A few left rolls and she was very shappy with no lazy slop in the roll! A few right rolls and she is a little slugish but not much at all. I think the tape really helps over the aileron. And, when I got home I realized I didn't have my aileron rate at 125% max so she's got more to offer! Think I had the elevator in the 60 to 80% area because the elevator is rather large and has far more control. Once I get them down to a science I'll post high and low rates that work for me and will be a good starting point for most people. Now I'm really starting to love the plane. Had an 8x4 prop on the BP21 motor and climb and speed was real good. A few loops and she's doing well. I didn't attempt any outside loops yet because the rates on the elevator were a little low for my tastes until I adjust them. The wind wasn't much of a problem for her and she would glide with the motor off well too, despite my ready to fly weight. Are you ready for this? I went big time overboard with the epoxy again and REAL heavy on the paint (screwed up my paint scheme a few times and had to correct). I might have read my scale wrong (will re-check soon and re-post), but I think she was 26.6 ounces! Ouch, a bit heavier than the 15 to 20 ounces or so the original plans called for. But hey, it didn't seem to hurt her low speed glide ability or anything else. Landed her and had a few guys come over that liked the looks and were surprised it only had one aileron with the performance it had. Remember too that I made my aileron slightly wider (exactly half the wing width) and you could make it an inch or so longer for even more throw. Stuck in another Common Sense 2000MA 10C 3 cell pack and off she goes again. The paint job and general outline of this foamie really make her feel like an old WWII bomber. Was able to soak it all in more this time. Kept telling myself "You built this thing from scratch, you know..." and felt that little twitch of pride somewhere in the back of my head. This flight also ended without any trouble and gave her a good look over for any stress cracks, etc. No problems. A few scuffs of paint missing on the bottom of the fuse from landing but hey that's easy to fix. This plane flys different than the Stryker or a V-Tail bird such as a Challenger or Extreme. Like it's unique traits very much.

VERY happy I went home with this plane in one piece this time and for that matter two birds on their first maidens! Next step is to trim her out and adjust the rates on a calmer day for best performance. Then it's off to build plane number 3...A homemade Mustang more than likely much like Fishers.

critterhunter

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...14692....Plans

Hey Fisher, click on the above link and it will lead you to a message thread on building a profile Mustang. If you look down the thread you'll see a link for a P51 Mustang with a 36" (Same as our foamie). Print that out and it'll give you a good outline of the body, tail, wing, and rudder all on a single sheet. I just did and plan to take it up to Kinkos to have it blown up to where the wingspan is 36" so it will be in the proper proportions for our ready to use Clark-Y wing jig. I mainly wanted to get the body profile right. Any ideas on how to shape the wing? If it's too much hassle I'll just stick with out standard foamie wing. I might try sanding the leading edge to curve it as per the plans. Back would be trickier. May just play with a wing that I plan to be junk to see how hard it would be to match it perfectly. Ignore the other couple of outlines as they are for a flat foam design. Let me know what you think. I just picked up some 3" foam from Home Depot (Same stuff we used to make this foamie). Don't know if I want to sand the body to proper proportions but if I do I'll just glue to 3" sections together so I have a thick body to sand and round. Probably just stick with a profile but will try the other first. Other ideas welcome on building it. I'm going with two ailerons and an elevator. No rudder. The tail end will be meat tray foam. May go as light as possible on this build...with just a rod or two in the wing and one straight through the body with minimum re-inforcments...just some Extreme tape here and there as well. She's getting the 12T motor. Might begin work tonight. Good excuse to drink a few beers.

One of my first questions on this build is how to keep the wing and tail straight in relation to the body? Just follow the cut out hole outlines on the profile print out and widen it to fit my wing? Remember, this plan comes down that thread about half way and is listed as a 36" wing.

critterhunter

Also, check out this link. You can print it out and color and glue it right to your foam! Nice looking build and I'm sure it's easy enough to use our foam instead of flat foam.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342625

critterhunter

Was just looking over that latest link thread and man are those some pretty birds. I like the profile of the first link I provided better but the color graphics of the second link are hard to beat. Think I'll build that then get some color photo prinouts done and glue'em right to the body.

Fisher

Critter,

I could not find a link on your last post.

As for the Flat P-51 templates, it looks like a very good base to work from. I stayed with the 1 1/2 inch thick foam and had no trouble with strength in the fuselage after applying the strapping tape. After a few more trim adjustments she flies OK. Still not great but I am using the 2409-8 so it isn't all that fast.

I was getting a bit risky flying it around some trees and smacked a branch about 15 feet up. Only dented the leading edge of the wing but the prop snapped on impact with the ground. Put on a new prop and away she went for a second flight on landing the new prop snapped too! This design is hard on props and she still glides like a brick. Not at all like the SO. If you want to make a tapered wing you really should get a second airfoil template designed for a tapered wing rather than trying to hand sand a tapered wing. Though I think you could make it work since the thrust ratio is so high with these planes. If you want I can try to put together a new set of airfoil templates and try to post them as PDF’s. Might work out then. Just let me know. I put together a set of 14 inch wide templates for building the large scale SO but I need to demolish the P-51 if I want to start another plane. May have to go with twin motors and mount them out front of the booms. I still think it would look quite cool plowing around with a 6 foot wing span.

If I read you right you are looking to stack two 3 inch thick pieces for the fuselage. I think that is way too thick. 3 inches should be plenty.

ken 68

I just made a smaller template for the outside and it works fine for tapered wings . Make them long and cut what you need. The Clark-Y will be close to what yor want. I like the Y-M which might be closer to the P-51

Fisher are you using a propsaver ? Mine came in today so I can fly the no gear plane and one goes on the Slow Stick.

Ken

Critterhunter & Fisher
You need to check out the new EMax BL 2215-25 Killer power at 59 grams & with a 11X7 prop 1046grams thrust thats 2.31 lbs.
10X5 prop =1.76 lbs. 799 grams. www.gorillabobsshack.com has them for $29.95 . I think im going to get one and put on SS #2
Aluminum booms came in today and im going to cut the tailfeathers from meat tray & maybe order one of those trick foam wings cut for the SS that you can have ailerons. I want to build it so it will come apart so I can put it on a plane. My sister called from Fla. and invited me down. 600 acre pasture to fly in and a pickup to get me to the middle. My sister in NY said I could come up also. Big hayfield across the road from her house. Son in Iowa ? Soybean fields aplenty and a 5 acre empty lot out back. WHY am I here ? Anyhow I'm feeling a bit better and want to have a place close without trees.

critterhunter

Fisher, posted the link a few minutes later when I realized I hadn't. You have GOT to check out that thread! Not convinced yet? Feast your eyes on the little project I started last night...

critterhunter

And a few more to tease you with...

critterhunter

Yea, I made a mistake when I said 3" foam. I picked up TWO inch foam. Not going to glue two slabs together because it's plenty thick and strong enough. Almost wish I would have used 2" for the foamie design as well because two inches makes it much stronger with less flex. Don't plan to round it off like I was talking.

I went to that second link I posted and printed out the Mustang picture that's all on one sheet. Didn't care about color since the Mustang is mostly black, grey, and white anyway so I printed it in black and white. Took the sheet up to Office Max and had them expand it to where the wing was just a tad under 36" (gives you room to sand things smooth or if you feel like it round off the wing tips on the original foamie wing to match it). That matches our foamie's wing size. This only cost me about $2.50 (black and white) so I had them print me out a couple copies of it. One copy is being used for templates to cut the body parts out and can be used and abused as you add parts/cut things/etc. Once the plane is built you can peal it off and spray glue the other copy onto the body parts. I'm thinking after done that clear tape would be best to protect the images over the body parts but perhaps you guys have a better idea?

As you can see I just sprayed some glue onto the fuse and stuck it right onto the 4x8' slab of foam. Took the hot wire bow cutter and rough cut it off the slab. Then threw it on my hot wire bandsaw style cutter and more precisely cut it out. Man, this table cutter works SO well even without using wood jigs. Only needs a bit of sanding to smooth off the tiny bit of excess (not done yet in the photos so the foam looks rough yet).

I then went on to cut off the foam in the tail rudder area because of course the 2" foam is too thick for that. I'm going to use some meat tray foam (there is thick enough meat tray foam if you find the right butcher), or I may use balsa for it and the tail. I just used an exacto knife and ruler to follow the line on the fuse and then hot wired the foam off. Save the tail rudder printout you cut off for a template to make one.

I then cut the tail wing in half since it's not going straight through the body. I plan to cut out the two pieces and only stick them a little into the body to preserve the proper surface area size for them (if you stuck it all the way through the body you'd loose surface area because of the thick fuse). Again, either thick meat tray foam or balsa is going to be used for them. By the way, I saw reference on that thread that guys had concerns the elevator wasn't big enough so you might consider making it a bit wider. Don't know how it panned out on there (still reading the thread). Those guys, of course, are building flat foam planes that this design is meant for but I'm liking my hack job conversion to our foam so far.

I'm planning to use two ailerons (one servo for each) and an elevator with no rudder. My main concern at the moment is the wing mounting. As you can see on the photo the tail location is easy enough since it's a straight line that I can simply stick the tail into. Since our wing doesn't quite match the wing they are using I'm a bit nervous about exactly how to mount it. There isn't a flat surface area to use as a reference for the flat side of the wing. Ideas? I'm thinking I can use the straight tail line as a guide and simply line the flat bottom of the wing so it's exactly parallel to it? By the way, the last photo where you see the plane sitting on the wing is just something I threw together. That's a junk wing and the template wasn't glued to it or anything.

The nose cone...I'm planning to cut that off and hollow it out, then mount the 12T motor onto the front and cover it's bell with the hollowed out nose cone. What do you think?

The blowing up of the image made the excellent image loose some quality and get a bit grainey. Perhaps they have different methods to blow the image up that will keep it intact? Either way, I still think it looks great and the black and white photo copy will make it look like footage from an old black and white WWII documentry when it's flying around in the sky.

One more thing....If you guys want me to post these build steps as they go onto a seperate thread that's no problem. I just figured since it's going to use the same wing and many of the build methods we learned for the foamie it'd be OK to post it here?

critterhunter

Fisher, see you plan to build the up-scaled foamie I was going to build. Very cool! I kind'a gave up on the idea because I've had my belly full of building and wrecking this foamie this year several times. That's why I want to keep this one in one piece for a while. I would love to see the photos and something next to it for scale. Throw up some new templates if you'd like. If it looks like too much hassle to match the Mustang wind percisely I'm just going to stick with the foamie's wing and maybe round off the wing tips just a bit. The wing prinout glued to the top and bottom of it will trick the eye anyway and make you think it's cut to that shape.

Fisher

Critter,

After thinking about the mustang wing some more it became apparent that to cut the compound wing it would have to be in two pieces so I think you should stay with your current plan. The templates you are using do look great and your idea of keeping the wing and horizontal stabilizer parallel should be the right strategy as well. Your plan for the nose sounds like a good one too.

I see no problems at all posting this build on the same thread since it is an extension of your original plane post. I think your P-51 should fly better than mine since it looks like the wing is a bit further forward.

Ken,

Let us know how that monster motor works for you. I think I will need something like it to push an upsized version of the SO series. Have fun traveling and flying. Sounds like a heck of a way to spend your time.

critterhunter

Fisher, thanks for the input. I was leaning toward just using the foamie's wing with no tappering as well. I may still round off the wing tips a bit but will consider that when I get to it. Rain and wind outside so I may spend today working on her some more. The black and white xerox copies give her that WWII documentry look so I don't feel bad about not doing it in color. Your wing being too far back might explain the twitchy controls. I'll post photos and steps once done. What stinks about building this one for the first time is I have to sit back and figure out what the next step is. You don't want to get ahead of yourself in the process.

Ken, that motor does sound good. What's the amp draw on the suggested prop size? Fisher, I'd look into a few of these 2409-12 motors for your upscaled foamie. Amp draw will be close to 60 on an 8x6, though. Dropping down to a 8x4 should lower it to maybe 40 or so. Then again you want torque more than speed so a slower motor swinging a larger prop might be in order.

By the way, I can't stop looking at this fuse! The looks already have me exited and wanting to build it quickly. I've got a 12T, 30 amp speed control, and three Tower Pro HS55 clones (GS90...I think) just waiting to go into her. I've also got another new HS81 sitting around doing nothing. My thinking is the HS81 should be used for the elevator and the HS55 clones for the ailerons but not sure if the elevator would be under more stress than the ailerons and thus need the HS81? Only thing I'll have to buy for this build will be a cheap $20 GWS RX and crystal for a grand total of about $25 at the local hobby store. Control rods and such I have plenty of sitting around. Have some servo wire extensions sitting around too if I need them. Where do you think I should mount the elevator servo? As for the ailerons they'll either go in the body or inside the wing if the ailerons are too far away. I've got a ton of fiberglass rods sitting around that I salvaged from a patio umbrella that I'll use instead of carbon tubes to keep the price down. They don't weigh that much at all and are about the same size as the carbon tubes I normaly use. One or two in the wing, one through the fuse nose to tail. Have to go up to the local supermarker and beg for some thicker meat tray foam as I'm out. Would rather build the rudder, tail wing out of foam rather than balsa. Do have some thin plywood I could use instead but it's heavier than balsa. Once i get her near complete and figure out where the battery needs to go I'm planning to cover the battery with some type of hatch. Or, more than likely I'll just hollow out the top of the fuse and stick it in that way so I don't mess up the body image. It's be nice if the battery can sit under the canopy to get COG proper because then I could use a few magnets to throw the canopy back on and hide the battery, but where it goes I'll be sure it gets airflow. Did I say I was excited yet?

critterhunter

Another dumb question...Take a good look at the above photos. I just realized my elevator will be in two pieces since my tail will be glued to both sides of the fuse. Any ideas on how to control both elevator flaps with one servo?

I'm also debating what to use to protect the images on the plane. Clear tape is obvious but if I tape the entire surface area of the plane it'll add a good bit of weight. Not that that's ever been a concern of mine but I'm going to try to force myself to build this one light. Right now I'm thinking I won't even use any rods in the body or wing but rather just some Extreme tape. The fuse, being so thick, is very sturdy. So, short of using box tape what can I use to protect the images? Hoping there is some kind of spray I can use that will dry clear and make a durable surface?

Wonder if this build deserves landing gear? This will be my first plane with the motor in the front. First with dual ailerons as well.

Fisher

Critter,

Having to figure this stuff out as you build is what it is all about. Frustrating at first but satisfying when it is done. It gets easier as you go along too. I would put one rod in the wing because that is getting all the stress. Maybe just a half length rod centered on the fuselage, it does not need to go all the way from wing tip to wing tip. Like you said the fuselage really does not need any extra support especially with the graphics you attached. If you look at my elevator photo you will see that I connected the two halves of the elevator with a short rod and then cut a small slot/hole in the tail to allow movement. I think using two servos on the elevator is overkill since this in not some wild 3-D plane. If you need more detail on the elevator I can post some more pictures but it is a standard method. Staying away from Balsa is a good idea since it adds weight and isn't really necessary even for control surfaces. I am using three small servos and I see no performance issues so the three servos you have in mind should work fine unless you smack something really hard. You can mount the elevator servo anywhere you want on the fuselage. I stuck mine a bit high on the canopy with a top mounted control horn on the elevator. In retrospect I think mounting it in the middle of the fuselage so that the control rod runs under the elevator would be a cleaner install.

As for protecting the graphics I am sure that just about any clear coat spray would work. I have never looked for any though.

I just went back and looked at the photos I posted of the elevator. I did not include the one I took of the assembly prior to install. I will try to get that one posted soon.

critterhunter

Fisher, thanks for any pictures you can throw up. That's sort'a the idea I was coming up with. I'll probably use a flat, small piece of carbon through the body from one flap to the other...but pictures will help. I've got the rudder and tail cut out of meat tray foam now and the rudder already glued onto the body. Like I said, the hardest part is not getting ahead of yourself. My main sticking point is not wanting to destroy the pretty graphics on the build. I have two copies of everything so that's not a big issue. The current body graphics are just there to line parts up and will be destroyed as I build. But, then after I build the second copy will be glued on when finished if I have to. At the moment I'm thinking the battery, ESC, RX, will go into the top of the body. One of the advantages to the 2" foam is a battery compartment can be carved right down into the top without destroying the sides. Placing all that stuff on top will provide easy access and more importantly not require me to cut into the graphics. The elevator servo will probably go under the fuse towards the rear. The aileron servos I'm not so sure about yet. They will either go inside the bottom of the fuse or on the wing it's self. STEPS, STEPS, STEPS....Like I said, the hardest part is not getting ahead of yourself. I'm trying to build without having to destroy the graphics that are on the plane right now...but if I do then I'll just whip out the second copy. These first ones are only lightly glued to the body and can be pealed away easy enough. By the way, don't use the Duro spray glue I was using for tape on my Stryker and the foamie's build. It's junk. I found out that Elmers spray glue (Normaly says CRAFT on the front and ELMERS is almost hidden) is MUCH better. Yes, the graphics glued to the foam really stiffen things up. I've got the rudder graphics glued to it now and it really took the flex out of it. Thanks for ideas and input again.

PS- Picked up a P51 Parkzone canopy for $2 at the local hobby store. It's pretty good looking (clear see through with the exact metal cage detail) but not sure if I'll lop off the foam at the top of my foamie and mount it. Think it might take away from the cartoon/WWII documentry look of the plane. It's the perfect size, though.

critterhunter

Looks like wind and rain again today so I may blow off work and do some more on the Mustang. Ken, after hearing Fisher talk about broken props I might have to consider a prop saver for this front prop setup. Having never used or looked at one very close exactly how do they work? What little glance I took at one once had me concerned it would throw off the prop balance a lot. Then again, if you look at the fuse for this P51 the nose is sitting pretty high so I may try to get by without a prop saver until I see a need for it.

critterhunter

You can tell I'm bored today. Since the weather is getting worse and we'll be flying less frequently I figured I'd remind you guys about what I found on on lipo storage. Most agree the lipo should be stored at roughly 40% of charge (probably a few minutes above cut off on the plane) and at around 35 to 40 degrees (refrigerator might work well). I'll probably just put mine on the basement floor in a metal box as the temperture there is probably around 55 to 65 with the cement floor conducting cold to the box. Probably no need to do this if your flights are only a few weeks apart but any longer and it'll help prevent the battery from getting old/loosing capacity.

critterhunter

Somebody on the Stryker forum just posted this link for the best price thus far I've seen on 2200ma 3 cell 20C (30 burst) lipos. $32.53! For that price I could have bought four packs instead of two of my Hi-Model packs. The Hi-Model packs (20C with 28 burst) are a tiny bit smaller and weigh a little less at 175 grams versus 183 grams for the Hextroniks, but for almost half the price ($32.53 versus $54.99) it's well worth it. A couple people said these Hextroniks packs are of great quality as well. Like the Hi-Model packs they feature a balancing plug compatible with the Blinky Balancing card (like common sense rc, astro, and several other lipo makers do). This pack will safely power the 12T motor (draws 30 amps on a 8x6) and of course will easily handle a BP21.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=2045

Fisher

Critter,

Sorry it took me so long to get these photos posted. I am assuming that you are already past this step but here are the photos of my elevator setup and some other detail. I know you will make it look much better by recessing the electronics and servos into the plane.

critterhunter

Thanks for the photos. Yep, already got the tail and rudder on but I screwed up with the carbon to join the two elevators. I made a rather sloppy hole in the rudder area for the flat carbon to pass through (I had a few too many beers in the garage). Oh well, I'll just have to cover it with a portion of xerox copy for the second copy of the plane so hide the too large of a hole. I'm going to post photos of the build when completely done. Still have to hot wire out a wing and mount that. It's going in as one piece through the body because I don't want to deal with the added work to make a two-piece removable wing. Thanks again for the photos as it gives me some servo/control rod mounting ideas to pounder.

critterhunter

I've been toying with the idea of building a CNC foam cutter. I know you guys have kicked the idea around in the past as well. I'm wondering if any of you have found the cheapest/easiest plans on the net to build one? I've done a little digging but there is so much material out there to sort through. If you've got a good link for what looks to be about the most simple and cheap build plan please post it. Thanks.

critterhunter

Been a while since I've checked out Foam Flyer's (the designer of these free plans) website. Go to the first page of our thread and click on the link to get to his website. I see he's been busy doing other new designs. He also has a good little article on why he likes using a single aileron on his designs. Still like the looks of the schitzophrania (sp?) plane and a few of the new ones after that. Maybe some day I'll copy it.

Fisher

critter,

Here are a couple of links I keep going back to for a possible CNC foam cutter.

http://www.hobbycnc.com/

http://www.8linx.com/cnc/day5.htm

http://www.drayconstruction.com/foamstuffs/

critterhunter

Thanks for the links. Did a little more work on the Mustang last night. The tail/rudder were already glued to the plane but I should have waited to do that after I cut the nose spinner cone off. Had to elevate my hot wire bandsaw style table cutter off the ground so when I laid the plane flat on it's side on the table's surface the tail wouldn't hit the garage floor. I took a knife and cut the graphics where the spinner code is on both sides of the plane, then used my hot wire table cutter to cut off the foam. Not exactly a perfectly straight cut but that doesn't matter. I don't want to sand the nose cone or body foam where they meet since that can create a gap when I glue them back together. If I leave them unsanded they'll match back up together perfectly to glue and hide the seam. I'll just have to make sure the motor mount is straight on the foam (a little forceful adjusting should take care of that) in relation to the body when gluing it on. I then found a socket (for a rachet) that was just a little bigger than the diameter of the bell on the motor. Heated the socket up and then stuck it into the back of the spinner cone foam to melt out a motor chamber. Stuck the motor in to make sure it had enough room and it's looking good. Once I mount the motor to the body I'll just glue the foam nose cone back onto the plane and then install the bullet prop holder and prop. Should look killer. Where the motor shaft exits the front of the nose cone I'm going to widen that hole bigger than it has to be for good inflow of air to keep the motor cool and then melt a few exit vent holes at the base of the spinner nose cone for the air to exit. Waiting until done to post photos and build steps in more detail because I'm not sure if my building process is right yet. Want to keep things sequential.

critterhunter

Took the foamie out last night for it's third flight. No crashes or problems. She flew great. This time I had the aileron throw set to 125% in high rates and at about 100% for lows. Elevator is in the 65 to 80% range for lows and around 100% for highs. The plane has no trouble doing loops (still haven't tried inverted loops or even inverted flying for that matter yet). Left rolls are extremely tight. Right rolls are very good but not quite as good as lefts. Very happy with it's performance. The APC 8x4 E prop does indeed seem to make the BP21 run rougher than the APC 7x6 SF I used on the BP21 when it was on the Stryker. I may drop to a 7x4 or 7x5 and see if she gets smoother. Don't want to go to a 7x6 because I don't want a speed demon, just good torque and decent speed. Looked the plane over after stunting in high winds and saw no stress cracks or anything wrong. Seems the carbon is helping her to remain rock solid. The rod I put from nose to tail in the body (at an angle with it's tip at the very tip of the nose) is helping to prevent the foam in the nose from getting squishy on landings. The landing was a little fast and the nose scrapped the ground but the foam is perfect. The Extreme strapping tape in several layers on the fuse near the nose of course helps too but I think the rod really prevents problems. Mustang build is coming along so you can look forward to photos soon.