Foamies! - RC Electric Foam Aircraft Discuss rc foamie electrics here (i.e. Zagi, Tazz, ProJeti, wingo)

Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Reply
Old 06-07-2007, 09:18 AM
  #1251
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Saucerguy, excellent idea on lining the battery chamber with balsa. On the 2" thick foam I use on such builds as the Mustang there is enough room to melt a chamber directly down into the top of the fuse (which, of course, is 2" wide). Still, there isn't very much foam on the sides. I hold my packs in with two loops of velcro glued into the chamber to wrap around the battery. Still, I was thinking of doing the balsa thing on my next Mustang build. This would probably fix the weak front end breaking if you land this build on it's nose, but I still might put a carbon tube in a future build the entire length of the body to really help protect it. I've stuck one in the current crashed and repaired Mustang that I haven't flown yet after the repairs. I may just scrap the body and build another with new prints, since the wing, tail, and canopy are still in great shape...It wouldn't take but about an hour to throw a new fuse on with new prints to make this bird look real good again.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 01:18 PM
  #1252
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Did a very early stage (plane isn't taped and motor isn't on yet) COG test with a 10C 2000ma pack and it's very close to balancing with the battery resting near the nose, so I'm pretty sure I can get COG proper when I use the intended 20C 2200ma pack. I decided to yoke off the coruplast I was using for the large horizontal stabilizer since it's very heavy and replace it with 5MM Cell Foam 88. Not only is this going to make COG easier to achieve, it'll take a little more stress off the wing where the booms hang (though very little now exists with the aluminum tubes and future Extreme tape). There is a carbon tube at the leading and trailing edges of the stabilizer that's glued to the carbon in the booms anyway, so I don't need the added weight of coruplast to help increase the boom-to-boom stiffness anymore. I'll groove the Cell Foam 88 to seat it flush onto the carbon tubes and that'll also keep the CF88 H-stab stiff. Going to also replace the balsa elevator with CF88 and a piece of flat carbon it's entire length to keep it strong. That should also shave off a bit of weight

A few specs on the Hextronicks 35-36 1100 k/v motor I'm throwing on the Big'N. Premium prop size for max efficiency/thrust looks to be a 10x7 APC E, drawing around 25 or 26 amps and producing close to 50 ounces of thrust. In tests by Dr. Kiwi and such an 11x5.5 or so had no advantage in thrust over the 10x7, consuming about the same amps but at lower RPM. Their tests also show this motor stays fairly cool and appears to be fairly efficient (I think around 76% on this size prop) and well built. Can't beat it for $25 from United Hobbies. Motor weight is about 106 grams. Go up in motor size from this one and the weight really jumps up.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 03:26 PM
  #1253
Fisher
 
Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 645
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Critter,

Not out of RC just not doing anything with it worth talking about. Oh Ya. After reading over some of my old posts it seems that having nothing worth talking about did not stop me from posting. I must be getting older.
Fisher is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 03:42 PM
  #1254
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Having nothing worth talking (typing) about never stopped me.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2007, 05:32 PM
  #1255
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Fisher, I'd like to get some detailed photo's of the thrust vector jet system, I want to use thrust vector for another project and it might save me some engineering time if I can see how it's done in another plane.

Also, I forgot to mention, I picked up a zagi xt kit a while ago, I just now started assembling it, but I took the root and tip airfoils and make a couple of jigs from that and traced the outline of the wing halves onto a chunk of foam so I can build more. I used Wilsonart H20 on the top section, super 77 on the lower 1/2 and encased the whole thing in strapping tape, have already covered to top with zagi tape, will cover the bottom tonight and do some mod's to how the servo's install and beef up the winglets. I'm saving the prettying it up build on this one for the new creations and hopefully it will be a challenge to fly. The airfoil on this is kind of diffferent. The root is pretty straight forward, flat bottom with an extra slice taking it further, the tip is symmetrical, and there is a cut out from the root section which will take some thought to hot wire cut the way we do it, but not impossible. I wasn't expecting it to have this much of a lift type of shape overall, but I gotta look back at how the zagi line originated as slope gliders.

The balsa sheeted battery pack really helps maintain it's shape, I found that repeated use was causing that area to deform, especially with different size packs I was using on them and the interta from the pack pushing into the foam. The added bonus of it strengthening up that section is where it's really showing merit, I'm sure we all have had breaks in our fuses and that particular section being the weakest spot is always the first to give. All of my packs have velcro on them to cushion them and for a tighter fit, but I still use a strap of velcro to keep them secure, and depending upon how far I plan upon pushing the flight, I even add a little masking tape for insurance so it won't go anywhere.
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2007, 09:06 AM
  #1256
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Yep, velcro is a must have around any battery in a plane. I like the velcro loops they sell at home improvement stores that are meant for wrapping around garden houses and such. The feature a slot for one end of the velcro to slide through and really lock the pack down. I always use two...one near the front and one near the back of the pack, and I also secure the battery leads under it as well.

critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2007, 09:16 AM
  #1257
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I'm actually referring to it as padding, not for holding anything down with the prior post. I like the fact it can compress which gives you a tighter fit wihtout actually putting presssure on anything around it in any significant way. This reduces the necessity to overkill strapping it down and reduces the chance of it sliding around while doing manuevers.
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2007, 07:35 PM
  #1258
flashsolutions
 
flashsolutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Velcro and Balsa Battery holders... Both great ideas!

Well I thought I would go ahead and post a couple photos of the Typhoon 3D after repairs.

I broke down and bought an E-Flite Park 480 to power this monster. I had ordered another less expensive Hextronic motor from United Hobbies but don't want to wait for it.

The total weight after putting in the new nose section and power plant brought the plane up to 32oz fully loaded. That included a 3 oz chunk of lead in the nose which was still required to move the CG to the 2" behind leading edge point.

Ran motocalc on the package and decided I will start with a 9x6 prop. I now some leaway to be able to upsize if it will be needed.

I have decided not to glass in the nose until I am sure the plane will fly. Tomorrow will tell, assuming weather permitting.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Qo38974.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	700724   Click image for larger version

Name:	Tp46262.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	42.5 KB
ID:	700725  
flashsolutions is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2007, 09:00 PM
  #1259
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

It looks good, and kind of makes it more unique with the new nose, you'll be able to take some of the lead off of it after you glass it too I'm sure you already know. You should have plenty of extra power now and you can never have enough motors, I'm due to buy more soon. I have two of those e-flights in the 450 size, you want to baby the crap out of where the power leads exit to insure they don't tug at the solders on the windings or you'll be in the same boat as I with two paperweights.

Good luck on the re-maiden and happy landings.

Brian
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:39 AM
  #1260
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Moved the carbon dual rudder linkage to the back of the rudders on the Big'N and it works perfect. Took out the potential hinge slop and no risk of one rudder folding into the linkage. Rock solid. Also go the Cell Foam 88 horizontal stab/elevator hinged and mounted and it came out nice. Took a lot of weight out of the plane compared to when it had the coruplast h-stab and balsa elevator. Got to remove the wing and tape it up more, plus finish up the dihedral on that. Starting to run out of things to do on this plane but I'm sure I'll find some tweaks to keep me busy on it while I wait for the motor and such from United Hobbies.

Speaking of which, when I placed my order last Monday they had 300+ speed controls, 300-500 of the 2200ma 20C packs, and about 19 of the motors. The order was sent to the warehouse for picking by the next day but still hasn't been picked and shipped. I slowly have watched the speed controls dwindle to 100 or so, the motors down to 6, and the lipos down to like +3. I'm guessing they've had at least back orders for the batteries and are filling those ahead of me. Wish they would have a "true" number of items in stock. IE: If you "have" a new shipment of 500 batteries but have 1000 back orders then don't list 500 of them in stock, since they are going out the door to fill old orders. After doing some reading on how soon people get some items from them it looks like I might be waiting a month or two. Oh well, gives me time to work on other planes...
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 11:22 AM
  #1261
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: flashsolutions

Velcro and Balsa Battery holders... Both great ideas!

Well I thought I would go ahead and post a couple photos of the Typhoon 3D after repairs.

I broke down and bought an E-Flite Park 480 to power this monster. I had ordered another less expensive Hextronic motor from United Hobbies but don't want to wait for it.

The total weight after putting in the new nose section and power plant brought the plane up to 32oz fully loaded. That included a 3 oz chunk of lead in the nose which was still required to move the CG to the 2" behind leading edge point.

Ran motocalc on the package and decided I will start with a 9x6 prop. I now some leaway to be able to upsize if it will be needed.

I have decided not to glass in the nose until I am sure the plane will fly. Tomorrow will tell, assuming weather permitting.
The repairs look great on an already great looking plane. Let us know how it works out...
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 12:01 PM
  #1262
flashsolutions
 
flashsolutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Funny you should ask... I was just about to post the latest info...

Sunday I took it to the field for maiden flight #2. On takeoff attempt it made a hard left turn heading toward my fellow flyers who were really too close to the runway. Rather than fight the plane for control I opted to dump it.

I decided the prop was still too small and the landing gear was way too short, preventing a longer prop from being used.

With too many eyes watching on Sunday, I decided to come back at another time when no one would be around and I could be a bit more relaxed. Would also give me time for modifications I needed.

This morning, winds were light and no eyes were watching my every move... Great! Takeoff attempt #2 did exactly same as Sunday. Adjusted the left aileron.

Takeoff attempt #3 was perfect! Up, Up, and Away!

Once sufficiently high, I banked to the right. Wonderfull! Another bank to the right for the downwind leg. Plane is bookin! Wonderful! Another right bank to base leg. Still performing great!

Oh ohh! Sun is coming up from East and my flight path will soon be taking me in direct line with it.

Apply left rudder.... I said "APPLY LEFT RUDDER!, like NOW". Oh no... Apply Left Aileron. I said "APPLY LEFT AILERON!".

A bad situation is rapidly getting worse.

The plane is tooling along at 50 mph and not responding to command. It is in direct line of a beautifull new home across the road for which I should not be in the vicinity.

Frantically I twist every control I have and suddenly it catches one. For a few short moments I thought I had regained control.

The last command received was up elevator for which it accepted and went into a loop up up up and then down down down down into the ground.

When I got to the plane I found it 20 ft from the roadway, 300 ft from a new home with its motor buried 2 inches into the soil.

What more can I say....

I think this one is a goner.

On the plus side, after taking it home and examining the parts left over, I discovered the motor suffered no damage at all which was surprising. The battery did not fair so well. The 3 oz lead weight in the nose put a hugh dent in it and now I am left wondering what to do with the thing.

I know better than to use it, but how do you go about disposing of the thing? Any feedback along this subject would be appreciated.

I don't know if I will rebuild or not. Right now I am pretty bummed out and am thinking of throwing in the towel. But maybe after a few days, this will pass and I may make another stab at building another one. I have learned a great deal from this one. The wing was really too wide and fusealge too short, the whole plane too heavy, etc, etc.

For now, I think I will just lick my wounds and tuck my tail....





Quote:
ORIGINAL: critterhunter

The repairs look great on an already great looking plane. Let us know how it works out...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Nl29245.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	57.9 KB
ID:	702011   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ql33184.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	65.6 KB
ID:	702012  
flashsolutions is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 02:19 PM
  #1263
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Wow, sorry about the crash. I'd build another one if I was you. As a rule, in general it takes me three builds of a new design to work out the bugs and get it flying right. The dual boomer took me three builds and it looks like the Mustang is going to take three as well. I'm hoping my build-to-success ratio gets better as I get more experience under my belt. The Big'N might just take this first build, but I already know I'll need to build another if I want it to look pristine, since I've already chewed it up a bit with my modifications to things such as the original coruplast being taken off. While on that subject, does anybody know a good way to smooth over missing chunks of foam when you apply the tape? My best idea yet is to use gorilla glue to fill and smooth in any voids and tape over.

I've dented lipos pretty badly and they've worked fine. So long as there are no cuts in the material covering the cells. I've been told the cells are covered by three layers of the material but don't know that for sure. Just charge it in the open on a cement floor outside and see how it goes. If you do decide to destroy the pack you are supposed to cut both battery leads (one at a time) as close to the pack as possible, then throw it in a pale of salt water (half a cup to a gallon I think) and let it soak for a week or two. That should drain the pack to dead (electricity conducts through the salt water). Suprisingly, after that's done you can throw it in regular garbage without the need of special disposal from what I've read...but could be wrong.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 04:47 PM
  #1264
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Don't feel too bad about the crash, you are flying an advanced plane design, it's not for the new pilot, of which you are and it sounds like either the rx wasn't responding, or the control horns/pushrods dissengaged. Once you have figured out how to control it, your' skills will be much farther ahead then the typical person with your flight time. I know this for a fact, after flying the beast around, everything I've flown afterwards has been cake, I even maidened my new Zagi xt with ease yesterday, and in fact, was dissapointed with the fact that it was so easy to fly, well, except for that retarded launch procedure. I have it torn down to it's raw components, am doubling the elevon size, increasing the throws and putting on smaller control horns so I can maximize out how close to the elevon the push rods are going, the end result should be, being being able to breath on the controls to get it to do what I want it to do instead of how it's set up stock, which has my burying them. I took it out in some serious winds, the likes of which most pilots would shutter at, but figured, it's supposed to handle them, why not. The super so fared well, be it I spent more time just trying to get it up wind, only to have it shoot back down to the end of the park quickly, then to bring it back again slowly, I think I found out just how stable it is, which is too much so, which doesn't make it a challenge to fly in any condition and it was funny watching it fly at nearly walking speed towards me.

Overall, I've stated this before, we learn off of our mistakes more then our successes, don't feel bad for crashing, you will do plenty of that, it means you are pushing your skills forward, this is a good thing. I know people with many years under their belt and are considered experts that can't handle what I fly now, and I've only been flying RC for a year and a half but it's because I pushed myself very hard to fly things that are difficult. The drawback going this route, you no longer really enjoy flying some docile bird, and you are constantly looking for more performance. That jet I designed for critter is slated for a future build due to that one. Meanwhile, I have many planes now that are going to permenently collect dust in the attic becaus I no longer enjoy flying them.
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 05:09 PM
  #1265
flashsolutions
 
flashsolutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I use DAP Fast N Final lightweight spackling to fill voids in foam. Works great and can be sanded to smooth it out. I wet my fingers to spread it. That helps smooth it out as well.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: critterhunter

While on that subject, does anybody know a good way to smooth over missing chunks of foam when you apply the tape? My best idea yet is to use gorilla glue to fill and smooth in any voids and tape over.
flashsolutions is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 05:51 PM
  #1266
flashsolutions
 
flashsolutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I have seen the pictures of your creations which granted, I probably could not fly. You do push the limits.

I've been flying for about 9 months. I was pretty sure I could handle this plane as I have practiced on the G3 flight simulator many many hours.

I hope this was a case of the receiver getting out of range vs my flying skills. I also fly gas nitro planes and I think I may have forgetten that the range on my park flyer models is not the same as that of my bigger planes.

The receiver in this plane was setup with a Spektrum Park Flyer receiver with a 1500' range. Next time I am at the field I intend to range check my radio from the crash site to see for sure if that was the cause.

This plane came down a long ways even from where I normally fly my nitro planes.

This sport is full of opportunities to learn from our mistakes.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: saucerguy

Don't feel too bad about the crash, you are flying an advanced plane design, it's not for the new pilot, of which you are and it sounds like either the rx wasn't responding, or the control horns/pushrods dissengaged.
flashsolutions is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 07:32 PM
  #1267
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Yea, I'd guess you lost RX control for whatever reason myself.

I'll try the spackle. Think I have some by hobbyco around here that is balsa filler and very light. Can I put it on thick to fill deep voids or do you have to do it in stages?

Saucerguy, I pitty those who get bored with any RC plane. I keep seeing Stryker guys trying to push the plane faster and faster. The 12T motor on mine is plenty fast enough for me. As long as the plane will do whatever I ask of it (including unlimited verticle) there isn't some goal I'm trying to achieve. I find myself enjoying the individual traits of any plane...be it slow or fast. The challenge is pushing what THAT plane can do, be it a slow plane with a weak motor or one that can go like a bat out of h*ll. Trying to recover a weak motor plane from a stall at low ground level gets my heart going as much as shooting by at 90 mph. I also get great enjoyment out of taking a plane really high (to where I can hardly see it) and killing the motor to see how long I can stay up, trying to ride thermals or whatever wind is present. Very relaxing. I make a game out of it and watch my watch to try to beat my previous time before needing to fire up the motor again.

critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 07:59 PM
  #1268
flashsolutions
 
flashsolutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 80
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I would do it in stages if it is deep. I haven't used it to fill big holes, just imperfections and shallow fills but I let it set overnight before trying to sand. A deeper hole might not dry very well if filled in one setting but I can't say for sure having never used it that way.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: critterhunter
Can I put it on thick to fill deep voids or do you have to do it in stages?
flashsolutions is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2007, 08:17 PM
  #1269
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I'm going for the adreanelan rush, I've been amusing myself on the super so by working on my inverted skills, especially when it's close to the ground and pretty much zero margin for mistakes, it has been fun, be it I still want more power since it doesn't do vertical, which would change should I upgrade the packs. Also, stalling it really has me leaning towards 3d flight for slower sessions, of which I haven't done yet.

I placed another order with UH, picking up the TowPro 2406-21 Brushless Outrunner to try that one out in the next creation, will let you guys know how it compares to the cd rom ones we've been ordering. I'm also impressed with the tP 600 series servo's, they are working very well and at 3.00 a shot, I just ordered a bundle of them.

Something I forgot to mention before, I just tried this out last night. For making straight cuts, mark the area you are going to want to cut, let it hang off of the edge of the table, weighted down, and place the wire cutter onto it, letting it hang down to the ground supported by nothing, just letting the wire rest on the line you drew. Power it up and it will cut through the piece through gravity. I don't even need to use the table, and chop saw any more, it works great, just make sure it's not swinging or they will be off.
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 09:56 AM
  #1270
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Good idea on cutting lines! Hey, did you mean you are getting a 2408-21 motor? That's a BP21. 2409-12 is the 12T. 2409-18 is the 18T (A VERY powerful low RPM motor with decent efficiency).
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 04:57 PM
  #1271
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITED...idProduct=5102 is the shopping cart link to the motor, I'm hoping it has enough juice to power up the next Zagi I'm going to scratch build in eps.

One thing about the Zagi that amazed me was how that sucker floated on and on when I was trying to take it down, it's hard to believe something that weighs that much can glide so well, it's the advanced airfoil they designed that did it and discoveries like this are the reason I'm enjoying the building phase. Overall, I'd reccomend it to any intermediate pilot, even the early ones, there is alot of hype about them being hard to fly and how they are performance monsters, but in reality, especially with that glide ratio, you can take it very easy on the juice and put around the sky all day long. Powering it up in full as an option for performance, especially with the winds I was facing made for a good combo, so this by far, has the widest range in my hanger so far and the reson I'm making more.



Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ay74716.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	55.1 KB
ID:	702823  
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 09:19 AM
  #1272
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Is that your first delta wing? I'm amazed at just how slow (and fast) a Stryker can fly. It has a very wide window of air speeds, from blazing around very fast to floating to the ground like a feather. In fact, I think I heard somewhere that the Stryker design was originaly intended to be a slope soarer.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 10:58 AM
  #1273
saucerguy
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 658
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

I guess, this is the first traditional delta type wing I've set up rc wise. I was able to maiden it with the mods yesterday, it worked fine and I have the control I was looking for with the elevons being so much larger then stock. I can't wait to build more since I have the jigs I took from this one for them, you gotta love the utter simplicity of having it all contained within the wing itself, no fuse or tail feathers needed to assemble.

I should grab a stryker replacement body some day to mess around with that platform as well.
saucerguy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 10:03 AM
  #1274
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: saucerguy

I guess, this is the first traditional delta type wing I've set up rc wise. I was able to maiden it with the mods yesterday, it worked fine and I have the control I was looking for with the elevons being so much larger then stock. I can't wait to build more since I have the jigs I took from this one for them, you gotta love the utter simplicity of having it all contained within the wing itself, no fuse or tail feathers needed to assemble.

I should grab a stryker replacement body some day to mess around with that platform as well.
DO IT! You'll simply love the Stryker, the parts are on most store shelves, and you can't beat the price: Body With Nose $20, 3 piece canopy set $7, Fins $7, Motor Mount $3, Elevons $4. Of course many of these items you can make yourself for it. The plane is amazing and very versatile. Do yourself a favor and put a 2409-12 motor on it (12T) running an 8x6 APC E prop, 30 (or more) amp ESC, and two HS81 servos. You'll need a 20C 2200MA 3 cell pack or so since this prop is going to draw close to 30 amps. It's overpropping the motor a bit but you'll love the speed and vertical is crazy. Then try a 7x7 or 7x7.5 or even a 6.5x6.5 (I haven't tried these yet) for even more speed and still being able to do unlimited verticle. Read my "Build A Bullet Proof Stryker (Brushless Or Stock)" build thread in the park flyers forum for all the tricks to build and strengthen this plane I've learned over the last few years. It's a simple "build" and a great plane that can take some real punishment.
critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 09:33 AM
  #1275
critterhunter
Thread Starter
 
critterhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Out There, PA
Posts: 2,800
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Here's a Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! Cool Looking Plane Too...

Started cutting out my first bi-plane last night. It's going to use two of the Clark-Y 3 foot wings we use on the dual boomers. Pictures when I have something worth showing.

Here's a little servo survival guide I wrote...

After going through piles of used servos to see what needs fix'n, I figured I'd write a little Servo Survival Guide for anybody new to servo repair like I was and am. Most of this info is based on the Hitec HS81 servos, but for the most part when you've seen one servo you've seen them all. You'll also find a few Tower Pro SG90 (Also called HXT900...a Hitec HS55 clone) tips as well. By the way, this servo is a great little servo for the price (around $4). I've read nothing but good things about it, some people even liking it more than the HS55. It is said the United Hobbies HXT900 version is of better quality, though I haven't compared it to the SG90 to see. For the most part, I use Hitec HS81 servos in my larger builds or ones with more speed and/or larger control surfaces, while the HS55 or SG90 is what I use in slower, smaller, or lighter builds. These are probably the two most popular servos in the Park Flyer universe.

WARNING: I'm no expert. Following my advice could destroy your servo or damage some other component. Use at your own risk and don't cry to me if you burn the house down or lose a finger. Always remember to unplug the battery that is powering the RX, unplug the servo, and turn off the radio before doing any work on the servo.

PRE-TESTING SET-UP: You want to check that your trims and sub-trims are at neutral, the radio is set up for full throws and full rates (125% on JR radios). This will insure that the servo is cycling through it's full gear travel and that any bad pots or stripped gears will show themselves under these conditions.

TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE:

Step 1: Plug the servo into an RX, turn on your TX, and hitch the battery up to the speed control or whatever you are powering the RX with.

Step 2: Move the stick on the TX fully in each direction to see if the servo is moving like it should.

Step 3: If you don't hear any gears stripping and the servo is moving properly and smoothly, grab the servo arm lightly but firmly and put some resistance on it in both directions as you move the TX stick fully in both directions. Many times a stripped gear won't show it's self until a load is put on it or the servo is moved completely in one direction. If any gears are stripped move on to REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS.

Step 4: Set the servo onto a table and look down through the top hole on the horn. Mark the table directly below it so that you can see the mark through the hole's line of sight. Now quickly move the TX stick all the way one direction and release the stick. The horn's hole should return to the marked spot. Move the stick quickly in the other direction all the way and once again release the stick. Repeat this process several times to confirm the horn (which shouldn't be held or touching anything) always returns to the same neutral point. If it doesn't then the POT is more than likely dirty. Move on to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE TWO.

Step 5: Slowly move the stick from neutral all the way to full throw in one direction and watch the control horn on the servo. It should smoothly and slowly move in that direction with no jumping or jitters. Slowly return the TX stick to neutral and check to see if the horn (again, shouldn't be touching anything) is still returning to neutral properly. Repeat the test in the other direction. If the servo doesn't work smoothly or return to neutral this more than likely is a dirty POT. Move on to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE TWO.

Step 6: Slowly move the servo all the way in both directions with the TX stick and make sure it looks like the servo is traveling an equal distance from neutral both ways. If it isn't then make sure your throws, sub trims, and trims on the radio are set right. This condition is more than likely a bad or dirty POT but can be a stripped gear. Go down to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE TWO.

Step 7: Hold the servo in your hand (without touching the control horn) and move the TX stick around, holding it still in random and various positions for a few seconds at a time. Also try holding it still at full throws in both directions. The servo shouldn't buzz, vibrate, or make noise in these various spots when the stick is being held still. If it does then more than likely the POT is dirty. Move on to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE TWO.

Step 8: If the servo buzzes, doesn't always move, or especially gets hot then this could indicate a seized motor rather than a dirty pot. Jump down to FIXING A TIGHT OR FROZEN MOTOR.

REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS:

Gear sets are fairly cheap at around $3 to $5 for nylon sets. Still, if you have an HS81 and want to install metal gears in it to prevent further stripping, pick up a pack of HS81MG gears. You can also save money by saving all the good gears out of a servo that has stripped. Look at them under a magnifying glass. More often than not you'll find that the top or second from the top gear is the one that has went bad. Throw the good ones in a bag and hold onto them for replacing a bad gear in the future.

While HS81MG servos have a notched shaft that the top gear must mate to properly, some servos such as the SG90 Tower Pros have a cogged top that the top gear can fit onto in various positions. If this gear is stripped you can break away the two stop tabs on it's bottom and position the gear so that the stripped portion is pointing directly the other direction from the other gears. When the servo is moved to full throws chances are this bad portion of the gear will not engage the others. The same can be said for the other gears on both servo types, but only putting it back together and checking movement is going to tell you if it's going to be OK. This should only be done in a pinch when no other replacement gears are present, but involves high risk of having the servo fail so be aware.

Before taking the servo apart there is one last thing to check to make sure it is really stripped. Often the control horn is slipping on the top gear due to the horn being bad or it being the wrong horn. Horns are usualy very specific to the model and brand of servo they are used for, featuring different teeth patterns than others. Try replacing the horn with one that you know is meant for that servo and tighten the screw holding it snug.

UNPLUG THE BATTERY FROM THE RX AND UNPLUG SERVO! Turn off radio.

Once you replace the gears you should still go back to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE and do all the steps again to look for further servo problems.

Step 1: Remove the screw holding the servo horn and the horn it's self. Always hold the servo horn and apply equal force in the other direction as you tighten or loosen this screw to avoid putting pressure on the gears inside. Next, remove the four screws on the bottom of the servo. It's better to loosen (or tighten) these four screws in a zig-zag fashion, much like tightening lugnuts on a car. This helps to insure that the servo case is being closed (or opened) with equal pressure. The bottom and top cover plates should now easily pop off. Be careful that the top cover doesn't come off with the gears and/or a metal rod with it. You want them to stay in place to help guide gear placement.

Step 2: Pull the gears off one at a time from top to bottom and place them on a table, staggered from top to bottom and left to right a few inches from each other to indicate the sequence and direction they were on the servo. Make sure the middle metal pin stays in place and you don't loose it.

The metal gear on top of the servo is the motor's output shaft. If you spin it with your finger you'll find it to be very loose. Don't let this make you think the metal gear is loose. It's just very easy to spin this tiny motor. The middle metal pin isn't attached to anything inside the servo, it just seats into a hole to hold it. On the inside of the top cover is also a hole for it to seat in. Nine times out of ten if the servo doesn't want to snap back together the pin isn't fitting into this hole for some reason. The other, slightly larger, metal shaft on top of the servo is the POT shaft. When the motor moves it this POT also moves, and via feedback it tells the servo what it's position is. Notice a flat spot on top of this shaft. This is where the top gear that the control horn screws into has to seat properly on in order for that gear to not slip on the shaft. If you haven't noticed, all the other gears are not secured to the two metal shafts in any fashion. They simply spin on the shafts when moved.

Step 3: Take your new gear set and install the gears, using the old ones position on the table as your guide, starting from bottom to top. When you get to the top gear make sure it lines up with the flat spot on the POT shaft and press it down firmly. There shouldn't be any large gap between this gear and the next one down or you've probably not seated it properly. Grease the servo gears with the right greese if you feel the need to do so.

Step 4: Place the top cover back onto the servo and make sure it is completely flat with the servo case. If it isn't then more than likely the top middle pin's top portion isn't seating into the top hole, or the top gear isn't installed properly (it can bump the top of the cover if it isn't sitting right. Normaly the "fat" portion of this gear will be pointing towards the other gears.

Step 5: Place the bottom cover back onto the servo and re-install the four screws. Do not overtighten the screws or they will break that bottom cover's four mounting holes. Again, tighten them in a zig-zag fashion (top left, then bottom right, then top right, then bottom left). If one or two of the bottom plate's mounting holes are broke still use all your screws. These will hold the top cover on, which is where things need to be snug to avoid gear play and stripping. You can also get by with only having two or three screws available to use so long as the top cover is tight. If not, apply a little CA around it's mounting surface to keep the top cover snug. Replace the servo horn and it's screw. Again, apply force in the other direction on the horn to the screw's direction as it is being tightened to avoid stress being put on the servo gears.

Step 6: Go Back To TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE and start at the beginning of the test steps again.

TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE TWO:

Before going through the trouble of cleaning the POT there are still a few possible easy fixes to the problem.

Before following any of the steps below UNPLUG THE BATTERY TO THE RX, unplug the servo, and turn off radio.

If you find that any of the below checks fix the problem you should still go back to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE and go through all the steps again to look for further problems that might be present.

On one SG90 servo I thought I had a dirty POT on it since the unit wouldn't move fully in one direction compared to the other and would "hum" as is tried to reach it. It turned out that there was a tooth missing on one of the gears very near full throws and the servo couldn't advance the last bit of travel it needed. It wasn't producing any stripped gear noises so be aware to check for bad gears when cleaning the POT.

Step 1: First, clean the contacts on the RX and servo plug to insure they aren't dirty and causing a random short. You might also try another port (IE: switch from elevator to rudder on the RX) to insure that it isn't that RX port that is causing the problem. This might also indicate a bad TX POT (read below).

Step 2: If the problem is still present, next try another RX with the servo to rule that component out. Also try a different port on the RX (IE: Rudder port instead of Aileron). If this fixes the problem then it suggests the POT controlling the Aileron on your TX is dirty or bad and not the servo's POT.

Step 3: If the problem is still happening, make sure the battery pack you are powering the servos with is fully charged. A low voltage level could be causing the servo to act up.

Step 4: If the problem is still yet present, make sure the TX battery is fully charged, the antenna is fully extended, and that you aren't experiencing any interference. If the problem still persists then move on to CLEANING THE POT.

CLEANING THE POT:

Step 1: Follow all the above REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS steps for taking the servo apart, and don't forget to UNGPLUG THE RX FROM THE BATTERY, unplug the servo, and turn off the radio.

Step 2: Flip out the little circuit board on the bottom of the servo and look inside. There are two components inside. One is the motor (it has two wires going to it). The other is the POT (it has three wires going to it). Notice the location of the three pot wires to indicate how it was sitting. Normaly the three wires are pointing toward the motor side of the servo.

Step 3: Remove the screw that is holding the POT in place. Press on the POT's shaft from the top of the servo and it should slide out towards the bottom of the case. Wiggle the wires a bit to help it come out.

Step 4: Mark the POT top and bottom in various spots to indicate how it lined up if you feel the need to.

Step 5: There is a small "U" shaped clip attached to the middle wire which goes around the base of the POT shaft. Bend this clip's ends back and away from the POT shaft. Pull on the other end of the shaft and the POT should come apart. Notice the position of it's insides as you do this to help you put it back together in roughly the proper spot.

Step 6: Take brake cleaner, alchohol, electrical contact cleaner, or any other product that leaves no residue and place some on a Q-Tip. Scrub lightly the inside of the POT's black area along with the three metal contact points. Also clean the metal "feelers" on the other half of the POT and the metal plates below it. I then like to slightly bend these "feelers" up for better contact with the other surface. Blow on the two parts and inspect them closely for any debri or Q-Tip fuzz.

Step 7: Re-install the two halves back together in the proper orientation and bend the "U" clip back around the bottom of the shaft's groove.

Step 8: Re-insert the POT in the proper position in the servo case and replace the screw. Don't tighten too much.

Step 9: Refer to REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS above for the rest of the steps in replacing the gears and closing up the case.

Step 10: Go back to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE and follow all those steps. If the servo is still responding like a dirty POT then one or two more cleanings may be required, scrubbing a little harder. One HS81 took me two cleanings before it started working properly. You may also have a tight or frozen motor. Refer to FIXING A TIGHT OR FROZEN MOTOR.

FIXING A TIGHT OR FROZEN MOTOR:

Some times the servo won't move or move very well and seems to get very hot. This could indicate the motor is having trouble moving.

STEP 1: Follow all the steps in the REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS section above to take the servo apart and remove the gears.

STEP 2: Take a drop of bushing oil and place it on the motor at it's rear shaft and front shaft.

STEP 3: Plug the servo back into the RX and turn on the TX and RX. The motor will spin all the time, trying to figure out where it's at. Since there are no gears in it to move the POT it will keep spinning. Allow it to run for ten to twenty seconds or so. This may fix the problem.

STEP 4: Follow the above steps under REPLACING STRIPPED GEARS to put the servo back together, then go back to TROUBLESHOOTING STAGE ONE and do all the steps to look for further problems.

FINAL NOTES: If you can't fix the servo after following the above troubleshooting guide then one final last ditch effort is to closely inspect all the servo wires, including the servo lead that goes to the RX. Look for any broken or cut wire, or any loose solder connections to the motor, pot, circuit board, etc. If the servo is still beyond figuring out it's problem then don't pitch it. You can salvage parts of it for other good servos, or combine the parts from two bad ones to build a working servo. IE: The pot may be good on one servo that has a bad motor, while this might be vise versa on another. A little solder work and you can build one good unit out of it. The little metal gear pins always seem to get lost as well, so it's good to have a few spares around. Keep them on a magnet or you're going to loose them. I know from experience...

Hope this helps anybody who was lost like I was...


critterhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:33 PM.