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  1. #426
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Yea, I'm working on the wing with the 68mm EDF. I'll post some photos soon. Here's some info I've been sorting through re-posted...

    A while back I was looking at EDF and motor options on Hobby City's website for "best" thrust on a 3 cell lipo while keeping the amps to a relatively "safe" 40 or below for a 20 or 25C 2250ma pack. This is about the max I'm willing to pay in amps to hedge my bets. The two EDFs I settled on were the 2.5" 7 blade and 68MM 5 blade units.

    I originaly had a Turnigy 3900 k/v inrunner in the 68mm EDF installed in a highly experimental platform which never flew. The 2.5" is in another experimental platform that I have hopes of getting to fly in another maiden or two and some minor tweaking. The Turnigy inrunner will draw about 30 amps in the 68mm EDF. It will produce more thrust in the 7 blade 2.5" Hobby City EDF, so I installed it in that unit. The amp draw/thrust of that combo is the best I can find for it right now.

    Installed a Turnigy 4000 k/v E500 outrunner in the 68mm 5 blade EDF. Getting pretty much what everybody else is…around 37 amps at 10V. Looks like about what I was shooting at amp wise for "most thrust" on a 3 cell while keeping it at or around 40 amps. Using a 40 Amp Super Simple ESC. Feel of thrust and air speed on a static run is insane! A 15 to 20 second static WOT test finds ESC and motor a little warm but not hot.

    Have seen similar reports. For example, one guy is getting 28.8 ounces of thrust, 440 watts at 44 amps. Β½ throttle he’s getting 250 watts and 18 ounces of thrust. All using 20C 2250ma pack. The averaging of numbers from several sources jives pretty well with my mine.

    Had to sand out EDF’s motor cup to allow motor’s bell to spin freely. Also cut out a wire channel in side of motor cup for the motor wires. It's going into the fiberglassed wing I posted pictures of. It may well be my fastest platform yet.

    Since the 3900k/v inrunner produces more thrust in the 2.5" unit than it does in the 68mm, I'm wondering if anybody has tried to fit the E500 outrunner in the 2.5" EDF. If the amps are tolerable and the pattern follows I would figure it would produce even more thrust than it does in the 68mm, maybe being the ultimate combo on a 3 cell if the amps don't red line the pack.

    By the way, the 2835 3900 k/v inrunner in the 68mm EDF pulls around 32 amps, around 630gr of thrust, and 300+ watts. I could be wrong, but from memory in the 2.5” EDF it draws about 39 amps, but I know it provides higher thrust.
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  2. #427
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Did a little more testing. With 68mm 5 blade EDF, 40A Super Simple ESC (Add extra heat sink to be safe), Turnigy E500 4000k/v Outrunner, 25C 2250ma Rhino 3 Cell- 10V,37A,370W. 11V,38-39A,418-429W. This was after a minute or so off/on run time of full charged pack. Resting voltage of 11.73. Thrust in the 28 to 32 ounce range. I haven't measured air velocity yet but it's coming out at a very high velocity, more so than I think I've ever felt before.

    I haven't tested the initial amp draw of a fully charged pack yet but based on the averaging of several sources I think at initial full pack WOT it will suck down around 44 or so amps but quickly drop. Was what I was shooting for- Max thrust on 3 cell at no more than 40 or so amps to be "safe" on a 20 or 25C 2250ma 3 cell lipo. Not willing to risk more amps than that.

    I sanded the motor cup with a sanding stone on a drill to allow the motor's bell to spin free, and also melted out a motor wire channel in the side of the cup. Secure all your bolts/screws/nuts with something like nail polish or they WILL vibrate loose.

    Even after balancing the rotor the EDF will vibrate badly at a spot somewhere around 1/4th throttle but then smooths out at everything above that. I can live with that since I don't see myself running the throttle that low. I'll do WOT runs for no more than 20 seconds or so and then half throttle cool down runs to take it easy on the motor/esc/battery.
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  3. #428
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Here's a website with tips and videos on hot wiring, although I think they make things a little more complex than they have to be. Like I said before, all the simple information on power supplies, tools, gauges of wire, wing jigs, etc, can be found in the first few pages of this thread, but if you would like to see how others are doing it and watch some live video then check out this link...

    http://www.utahflyers.org/index.php?...ask=view&id=37
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  4. #429
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Thanks for the tips Critter.

    I guess I basically got lazy and was just looking for a recommendation for a PS that would serve me well for both small and large jobs. I kinda got to the stage where I'd read a million articles, and was still none the wiser. What some guys said was good, others would say was bad etc.

    So, as I mentioned earlier, I bit the bullet and bought 0-30V 0-5A current limited PS at a heavily discounted 'sale' price for just over a hundred AUS bucks - hoping like mad that this would do the trick. I could probably cobbled something together in the 30-50 dollar range, but I just can't be fagged at the moment. Now normally I'd have a go at sourcing and soldering all the bits, putting them in an nice box etc, but I've just got too many other things on the go at the same time at the moment

    I'll take a peek at the link you supplied - it's always good to see how many different ways there are to skin the same cat (er.. "critter"? LoL) and always something new to learn too

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  5. #430
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Doesn't really matter if you spent a few extra bucks for your power supply. You'll more than make up that cost in the savings of making your own bodies and wings as soon as you build your first plane. Where do you plan to get your EPS foam? Home improvement stores usualy have white, blue, and pink. If the white is the same density found around here then I'd personaly use the pink or blue (blue is a little better than the pink), as they are more dense and sand nicer. I'm using EPS white foam called "Falcon foam" that a friend of a friend was throwing out at work, used in construction. It's even more dense than the pink or blue and is very strong. Often you can find this stuff in dumpsters at construction sites or in the dumpsters behind furniture or appliance stores as it's used to protect the product during shipping some times.

    My final settled on construction of builds, after playing with all kinds of strength mods, is to use one or two carbon tubes in the wing unless I'm fiberglassing it. Or, fiberglass rods will work. I've got a bunch of those from a patio umbrella found in the garbage. As for fuses I now just sheet two sides (left/right or top/bottom) with 1/8" balsa. This will greatly stiffen the foam and if it does break it usualy snaps clean for easy repair. For the dual boomer "So" plane I also sheeted two sides of the tail booms with 1/8" balsa. Much cheaper and better than using carbon tubes for the fuse/booms. I found that two carbon tubes in the wing near the front and back prevent the fuse from breaking through the wing on a hard crash. I'm using flat carbon at the leading and trailing edges of the h-stab to make a strong joining between it and the booms. Works great.

    Again, welcome to the thread and be sure to post some pictures of your tools and projects!
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  6. #431
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    MICRO STRYKER AND GLASSED EDF SPEED WING

    Got a few pictures to show. First plane is the early rough cuts of a micro Stryker. Just need to sand to final scale detail and then install the micro gear. It'll also be getting scale hatches and motor mount to be as precise of a replica as possible.

    The other plane is the fiberglassed speed wing with 68mm 5 blade EDF and 4000 k/v Turnigy E500 outrunner. 40 Amp Suppo (Super Simple) ESC with added heat sink to play it safe, as initial peak WOT for the first 30 seconds or so should be around 44 amps before leveling off to around 38. Want to keep that thing cool, but I will cut down the height of the heat sink later. HXT900 servos.

    Both the ESC and RX stick out of the body a bit but will be covered with air pods to slick them out. EDF tube is a styrafoam cup holder that has been glassed for strength. Unit is zip tied to the body. All wires sunk. Will also be adding clay to the trailing exterior edge of the instake ring to further streamline that. I'll be creating a battery pod up front to silk that out. Both servo linkages will be covered with hollow v-stabs to slick them out, just like I did with my streamlined Stryker. Botched the cut on the elevons (cut all the way through by mistake) so I had to re-attach them with tape. No big deal.
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    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  7. #432
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Thanks again Critter.

    Foam down here in Australia doesn't seem all that easy to get. The 'Hardware' stores don't stock a lot of it, and as for the different colours, I'm yet to find a source.

    I managed to track down one place that sells to the public - they run 4 grades of EPS. Each grade is heavier and dearer than the previous one, and I'm guessing that its somewhat finer grained as well. Their minimum buy quantity is like 60 bucks. A 2400 x 1200 x 100 (8' x 4' x 4") sheet in the lowest grade is around $60. The same sheet in the highest grade is around $120.

    They also do an EPP foam that works out around $130 for a 1200 x 900 x 100 (4' x 3' x 4"). From what I've read, EPP is more crash-resistant, but doesn't hot-wire cut very well.

    There's a place in Perth, Western Australia that stocks the Blue foam etc, but the cost of getting it over here (Melbourne, Victoria - that's like LA to NY) is prohibitive. Even though it weighs next to nothing, they sting you on the cubic down here and they charge like wounded bulls for the shipping.

    So I'll have to keep me lil peepers peeled and have an eye out there for anytime I see decent foam.

    It's funny yanno, every time I go into a hardware store for something, I always check out if they've got any foam LoL. The 'Insulation' industry down here is really big on those 'pink bat' matted things, but foam doesn't seem to be used all that much. Unless, of course, there's something I'm missing...[X(]

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  8. #433
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    The Falcon foam I'm using is pretty slick, in that it doesn't have the bigger air pockets that you find in less dense foam. It is very stiff but it will bend before it breaks a good bit, much like EPP in those traits. Sorry you are having such a hard time finding foam. If you lived near me I'd say stop by and pick some up. I've got blocks of this stuff anywhere from 4 to 8" thick and around 5x3' or so. Look in the dumpsters behind furniture, appliance, or electronics stores and you might find some.

    To slice it down into thinner slabs the easiest method I've found is to lay to pieces of angle iron on the ground and tape them in place. Then I hold my bow down onto them and then slide the foam block across the floor to pass through it. Makes nice straight and flat cuts.
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  9. #434
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Ohio is a fair 'swim' from my place, Critter

    I'm fairly new to all this, and I'm sure the guys down here have sources they get good quality foam from. My job now is to find them!

    But I'll make a mental note of looking through the dumpsters - we have some of those huge Furniture/Hardware/Electronics 'megastores' down here. Never know what I might find.

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  10. #435
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Here ya go Critter - this is a 'foamie' I'm building at the moment.

    Decided to give it a RAAF 'Low Vis' paint-job. Hope to have her up in the air soon...

    BJ
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    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  11. #436
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    That's a VERY nice plane! Looks very scale. As a matter of fact, I thought it was twice that size until I looked at the last picture. Good job! My "scale" skills are getting better so I'm hoping my A-10 Warthog will give you a bit of competition, though I doubt I'll go as all out as you did. Great job.
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  12. #437
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Err.... it's a bit of a 'cheat' there Critter - it comes as a RTF kit - all I had to do was assemble a nose-cone, top and bottom half, and the rear fins and stabs and exhaust nozzles. I doubt if I could ever scratch-build something like from foam.

    It comes ready-painted too - but it looked too nice and new, so I decided to give it a bit of a 'scale' paint-job in RAAF FA-18C colours.

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  13. #438
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    *Pssssst*... Critter.... you still around ???

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  14. #439
    critterhunter's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Yea, it's been a few weeks since I've been on as other projects and builds have taken up my time. I'll be posting some pictures of some EPS builds as they are completed. Anything new on your end?
    I find in life that if you give people enough rope they often hang themselves, or at least have a mess of knots to undo...

  15. #440
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Anything new here you ask?

    Kinda. I finally got the last bits I needed to finish my FA/18C. Had to source them from somewhere else. The buggers that sold me the model in the first place emailed me like 3 weeks ago saying that the missing servo was posted. Yeh. Kerapp. Bet it never left the building. And to think I gave them their 5-star rating on eBay before I'd gotten all the bits. We live and we learn, huh?

    It's not the ten lousy dollars that narks me, it's the "we will fix - your order is in the mail" attitude of some of these sellers when they really can't be fagged sending you a 2-dollar part. And THAT gets my goat up. For me, hey, tell me to blow it out my [censored] as far as I'm concerned, but don't LIE to me. I guess that in the end, you know you who can trust and are willing to business with, and those you should avoid.

    I won't slag [sellers name withheld], but in essence, they sold me two halves of two completely different aircraft - a wing requiring two servos to actuate both ailerons with pushrods to operate same; and a fuselage that relied on one servo... two push rods and a pair of clevice's and two more pushrods in order to operate the ailerons (not supplied). Sooo.. in short.. I had to buy the missing bits from someone else to get the 'full kit' that should have been supplied in the first place.

    Not happy, Jan!

    I guess it's a risk you take buying *anything* from China. To be fair, they have a lot of good stuff at great prices. But like anywhere else in the world, there's always those who will take advantage of you. The good old "Got u munny - now p!ss off!" attitude. And that's why I'd never buy any big $$$ items from any of them - there's just too many cheats out there. And this is from a BIG NAME Chinese brand.

    If they want to have a go at me on here - bring it on. I have every email audited, along with their false promises. Am I peeved? You bet. What can I do about it? Not a lot. Meh - so I spent 20 bucks more than I had to in order to get a plane I've had for nearly two months now in a condition that's close to flyable. Believe you me - I've learnt heaps out of this: buy cheap, you buy twice. And I'd be thinking twice of ever buying a *max product again. They simply don't care. Neither do I any more.

    But finish this I will - with or without their help. Some companies are worth a second chance. Some aren't. This one isn't. I shall never buy from them again.

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  16. #441
    BJ64's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    *psssst*.... Critter...you still around??

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  17. #442
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    BJ64,

    There is a site that sells full foam jet kits with fully built up bodies. It would be neat to build one of their models and get a sense of how flat foam can be turned into a full bodied fuse.

    http://www.6mmflyrc.com/original-series/

    I also saw where a builder simply took a flat foam jet and filled in the voids with solid foam and sanded to shape. The result was a bit heavier but by convincing. I own on of their Quick Build F-22's and it flies great.

    Critter,

    Sorry I have not been around for so long. I peek in now and then to see what is up. Looks like you are keeping busy. We purchased our first home, sent a daughter off to college and have been traveling quite a bit to see my mother who is fighting cancer. Last time I flew I put up my YardbirdRC YB-22, rolled inverted and then pulled up on the stick. Needless to say I now have a pile of foam pieces to glue back together.

    I have also been responsible for the design and construction of 2 new recirculating fish hatcheries up here.

    Take Care,

    Fisher
    I never crash while flying, it\'\'s the landings that get me.

  18. #443
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Hi fisher, sorry to hear about your yardbird and even sadder to hear about your mom [>:]. I need to get me some EPP for a Soo.... to bad its hard to fit a full 4x8 sheet in my moms van but hey i can find a way. Have plans to scale up the plans to a 4' wing vs 3', more wing = more lift.... you get the idea. To bad my little "Acme Flycam One 2" died a while ago, great little cam for AV stuff BJ What kind of foam do you azzies have to mess around with
    Axial AX10, \"Irene\" with custom chassis, Thunder Tiger ST-1 [not working]

  19. #444
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Fisher, sorry to hear about your Mom. That sort of thing is never easy.

    On a brighter note, you have been a busy little chappie, haven't you? I'll bet you'll be glad when you finally settle in your new home. Exciting stuff, no doubt. The moving bit sucks but - done it more than 20 times in my life, and it sure gets to be a drag. Being the 'hoarder' that I am, I end up having unopened boxes from the previous move LoL. The price I pay for being a Bower Bird. ~S~

    I still haven't finished putting that foamie F18 together yet - though the Cessna 182 has been ready to fly for something like 3 months now. And would you believe it? The weather down here has been crap since I bought it [&:] So I haven't had a chance to fly anything yet.

    My bigger project, the 1/10 F-111 is moving along rather slowly, but I've now accumulated pretty much everything I need to get stuck into it and give it a red-hot go from now on.

    I bet the first words you said when you powdered your Yardbird were 'Gosh... Golly!' Not. Shouldn't laugh, but a plane can always be rebuilt. Our health and spirit is what really counts.

    The fish-farming sounds like a real adventure. What sort of fish are you looking to stock? Trout? Bass? Our fish-farms down here are usually soley for Trout (which I'd rather catch myself in the clear streams up near Kosciusko).

    I'll take a peek at that site you mentioned - I've got a lot of learning to do regarding the use of foam. My F-111 wings will start out as balsa-sheeted foamies - then perhaps end up glass moulded.

    Take care mate, and I look forward to hearing from you again when you get things settled.

    Calvino,

    The predominant foam down here seems to be the common garden variety white stuff, though I have sourced a place that sells the yellow Corning foam. Someone also recently put me on to a place that sells that magic blue Dow foam that they seem to use a lot of in the States. The problem with those places is that they are only open Mon-Fri 9-5, and they are bit too far away from 'work' to go there in my lunch time. Might have to plan a 'sickie', or at least take half a day off...

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  20. #445
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Nice, thats the same story here besides the Dollar Tree foam board . Aaah you wild Auzzies Got my disk plane done so ya, I need to get my Soo going once I get the dang foam [:@]
    Axial AX10, \"Irene\" with custom chassis, Thunder Tiger ST-1 [not working]

  21. #446

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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Hey, what's up guys, it's been a while, boy have been through a lot. New shop, new place to live, ditched the girlfriend from hell, doing the church thing extensively, Life is Good! Even have bashed together a p51, going to gear it up later on.

  22. #447
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Happy to hear your getting on the right track there saucerguy College classes eat all 26 hours of the day so..... [:@] When I am recovering from surgery in December I should get some more crap into the air
    Axial AX10, \"Irene\" with custom chassis, Thunder Tiger ST-1 [not working]

  23. #448

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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    Going to be lazy, need the specs to the largest legal RC plane we can build and fly these days. I'm going to do one to those limits with the So. line, should be flying next summer... figured might as well just cut to the bottom line instead of building up in scale to that point.

  24. #449
    BJ64's Avatar
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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    ... speaking of foam - I'd love to get my hands on a MicroJet by Multiplex. But they are out of production these days. A local flyer down here has one, and I reckon it's the bees-knees as far as a park-flyer goes. He flies it really well, and that thing is slick, sleek, and awesomely fast.

    I've seen it close-up a couple of times now, and I'm thinking of taking a couple of 3-view photos of it and having a go at making some 3D templates to try to hot-wire one up.

    Feasible...?

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  25. #450

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    RE: Here's A Simple & FREE First Foam Build Plan! (Part 2)

    I happen to have a microjet, I do have plans in the distant future to create others based upon it's specs just FYI.


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