JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Dear RCU,

My thread on the new Zenoah 20 CC engine has been locked by a moderator. The thread is in the Gas engines forum, and discusses the disadvantages of the new Zenoah 20 CC engine, EXACTLY what the forums are for.... Your moderator was way out of line in locking this thread discussing this new engine. Can you look into this. The thread is:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5069656/tm.htm

Thank You,

JettPilot

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

cuz it was a troll

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

That was no troll. That is true, factual information on a new engine. If you call talking about an engine a troll, then you would have to lock every other thread in this whole forum.

This was clearly censoring what could be said about which engine. The moderator was clearly out of line.

JettPilot

Turd

oh it is ok JettPilot we are laughing at you elswhere ----- LLB ----- do a search

Whistling Death

It should have been locked down. I have read a lot of your posts, You would do well to lay off before they lose their patience with you and ban you.

Bad Tooth

My Feedback: (10)

Why was he locked? I read his post and I think he's just spouting off his opinions, but isn't that what we all do on this forum? He may be way off base with the zenoah 20 but who is the moderator? Is he a zenoah rep?

What does a troll have to do with all this?[sm=confused.gif]

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Aubiecat,

What is your REAL name on here ??? From you post I can tell you have been on RCU for more than just 3 posts. Aubiecat is obviously just a fake account you use to be "nasty" with when you dont want to use your real name.

JettPilot

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for the honest support Diavolo. Even though I would disagree with someoene that says he thinks Futaba radios stink, I would support his right to say it. I am american, I beleive in free speech, and more importantly, I PRACTICE it.

Many people claim to love free speech, but only as long as they agree with whats being said. When put in a position of power, most people act like petty tyrants as soon as something is said that they dont like.

No RCU response to my question ? Why was my thread locked ???

JettPilot

mvigod

Jettpilot,

I will have one of our senior mods review the call made.

Also RCU is not "free speech". It is a moderated discussion forum and we have rules everywhere to try and make this fact clear. If it was a free speech anything goes platform we would not have rules, policies or moderators and then we wouldn't need sites like rcu because we could use newsgroups. We all know how well those things turned out right? Other forums have tried the "free speech" approach and they are no longer with us while RCU's approach has survived them all and thrived so while "censorship" can be evil it is by far the lesser of the two evils when you are dealing with anonymity online it turns out. The unfortunate part about anonymity is that it removed accountability.

How about this...maybe we allow those who post their real name (verified to be accurate in some way) then we allow them to say whatever they want. If a company or person deems it to be libelous well then they can go directly after those people knowing good well who they are. Are you ready to disclose your full identity here online in exchange for a "free speech" card? Let me know.

marc

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

If I were the owner of RCU there would be no anonymity. You want to post, you use your real name. Live with it!

Bad Tooth

My Feedback: (10)

I agree that this forum needs to be censored to remain viable, but I don't see how making people use their real names would solve problems like this. It would definitely discourage the extremist posters from saying crazy stuff about products. As far as I can tell that is not what happened here. I think that most opinions on RCuniverse as a whole could be seen as "libelous" but we all benefit from these discussions. And I can't see a company coming after a person for making a poor statement against a product. Modelers learn other's opinions (just like at the field); and companies learn what people think of their products. If my company manufactured a piece of junk I would like to know about it to make improvements. And if I find a piece of junk product I will let others know about it regardless of if they know my real name or not.

Consumer reports gives pros/cons for many products, and in the end it is probably someone's opinion of how something performed. Maybe Jettpilot's wording is what went wrong with his post. Statements like: "Zenoah 20 CC Engine... Why you DO NOT want to buy this engine" or "The new Zenoah 20 CC engine is a dog of an engine" would not be said in consumer reports.

I still think it is strange that something so light (to me) was censored, when I have seen worse on this forum get by. Now if his post history is the reason...........then I can't speak to that as I have not read all of his posts.

So I'd still like to know if the moderator is a Zenoah rep. To me it seems like someone got their feelings hurt about his post!! LOL!

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Maybe if you say something is a dog, you should be required to state specifically why, what tests did you run, where did it fall short? I have found that a fair number of product condemnations stem from a degree of ignorance on the part of the user.

Bad Tooth

My Feedback: (10)

I couldn't agree more.

mvigod

We do not care if people have a negative opinion and post it here. They should back it up in some way though whenever posssible. For example "I didn't like the way that plane flew because it could not perform a blender well at least with me on the sticks" or "That buggy engine did not run well and I have a few friends that also could not get theirs to run just right even though we tried everything to remedy this".

Nothing is libelous or slanderous if it is the truth. The point of using a real name is that people will temper what they say with more truth and less lies or exaggeration if they know they are held accountable for it. When one is 100% anonymous the person's restraints (in psych known as the "ID") are often non existent and they will say just about anything to make a point or vent whether true or not.

How many times has a person punched a plane in and blamed it on anything but their error or pilot error and come on rcu to place blame? How many of those times do you think it was really builder error or pilot error? I'm sure they are not equal and yet the mfg is supposed to take the brunt every single time without a person giving any supporting evidence at all. I mean how about photos, other people who were present who will corroborate, specific details of the incident, etc. If someone is going to go hog brick wild and rip a product or mfg a new one they should either say who they are or provide "something" to substantiate their claims.

Bad Tooth

My Feedback: (10)

I totally agree. I also think that's what Red just said in the previous post. "If someone is going to go hog brick wild and rip a product or mfg a new one......" I don't think that is what Jettpilot did here..............do you?

I don't agree with his choice of words, or maybe he could have backed his claims better; but do you think he went "hog brick wild" and ripped Zenoah "a new one?"

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

If those were the rules, you would find that many would choose to not post here. For many, it's not a case of hiding behind a screen name so one can say whatever they want. It's a case of not wanting wackos on the net to be able to connect personal information we may post here to a name and home address. I use the same id on every board I'm signed up with and plenty of people who know me know my name...

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for all the responses from the admins and the moderators. You all have some good points, if someone were to post lies or bad information to make an engine look bad I would be all for locking or deleting the thread, but my post was very accurate and gave good facts. Yes, I said that engine is a dog, and I went on to give numbers and explain why...

Here is the body of the thread that was locked down, you can check for yourself every fact stated here. Sharing good information like this is what RC Universe is all about. I do lots of searches and read lots of posts here on RC Universe before making any major RC purchases. If people were not allowed to tell the good and the bad about the products they buy, this would be a pretty boring and useless place.



The new Zenoah 20 CC engine is a dog of an engine. Zenoah has always made great engines, but they really dropped the ball on this one. Below are the facts about this engine, and why it is a poor option for any airplane.

1. The Zenoah 20 CC engine weighs 44 ounces complete with the lightest lipo batteries and puts out only 10 pounds thrust . The RCIGN Zenoah G26 weighs 46 ounces and puts out 17 pounds thrust. You get 70% more thrust for the SAME WEIGHT with the G26 .

2. The Zenoah 20 CC engine has a very power hungry ignition system, many people are reporting only getting only TWO FLIGHTS before the battery in the Zenoah 20 CC engine dies . The RCIGN Zenoah G-26 has a very efficient ignition system that uses very little power.


Bottom line is, they sell the Zenoah 20 CC as a light .60 sized glow replacement, but the RCIGN Zenoah G26 is the SAME WEIGHT, with 70 % more power, and flys much longer without running down its ignition batteries. Why would anyone buy the Zenoah 20 CC that is LOW on power, and runs down its battery after 2 or 3 flights The RCIGN Zenoah G26 outperforms the Zenoah 20 CC in every way for the SAME light weight

JettPilot

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

I read the above link and while I don't have a G20 a freind has/had one and he had to use a 2700maH pack to get 4-5 flights.
It also didn't put out a lot of power but his 12 lb plane flew.
I don't see where the thread as it is now, 12/10/06 @ 10:15am is in error.

Bad Tooth

My Feedback: (10)

Now this thread has the exact same post as the locked thread..........it will be interesting to see if this thread gets locked.

mvigod

Bubbagates who locked it wrote

"I'd love to see proof of only 2 flights on a battery, weight and thrust. Specific's are warranted.

I own a G20 using an old JR1000 Mah 4-cell and I get more thrust that 10 pounds. Sounds fishy to me...

Please post actual fact and experience, not hearsay"

so this was his reason why he locked it. I believe he closed it because you wrote other people are reporting this but did not have first hand experience to corroborate this nor did you post links to those who "report" it. That is my best guess here. In other words if you provided something that would substantiate what you were saying it would have been left. Bubba seems to have experience firsthand with his own G20 and speaks firsthand that your hearsay statements sound suspect. What if you are wrong here and cause somebody not to buy this engine which would work for them? Is the info good that you gave? Did you test it to verify it or receive this info from reliable sources? Since none of those questions are addressed and answered he went the safer route and locked it. If you can support it (remember bubba speaks from firsthand experience with the G20) I am sure he would gladly reopen it up and let the discussion continue if indeed these issues actually do exist. If they exist we believe people should know about it but if false or "rumor" it won't help anyone I think most would agree...that's all.

josedomingues

I am from Brasil.
And now : I buy or not a Zenoah 20 EI?
Thanks

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

THere are PLENTY reports of people having the short flight times with the Zenoah G-20 in the gas engines forum. Do a search on it, the moderator is well aware of these firsthand reports.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...tm.htm#5030332

Here is the site where the current draw I was talking about is documented.

Their website also gives ther current draw as a very high 1.5 amps, so how is this bad information. I have proved my case with facts, numbers, and far better than most post on RCU.

More importantly, if you hold this standard fairly to EVERYONE, half the threads in these fourms would need to be locked. I gave factual information, and your moderator locked it for a reason when he knew full well there were many reports to support what I posted. This is not about facts, this is about your moderators getting out of hand and you not having the ability or the will to deal with this issue.

You stated in your last post

"Please post actual fact and experience, not hearsay"

How is this true ? And how can you justify holding me to an impossible standard that you hold no one else to ? I have proved my facts on beyond what almost anyone else does, Are you prepared to lock every post that does not prove thier facts to this level ?

It appears to me you dont care a bit about truth, fiarness, or respecting your users. You just appear to back your moderators and use any excuse to justify it.

JettPilot

chevy43

I'm glad I read your post. I don't think you are bashing Zenoa because you are saying the G26 is pretty good for the same use.

Power to weight is obviously important and small gas engines have weight and current draw issues.

Thanks for giving your opinion on the subject.

PS I don't know the history of this.

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

The 1.5 amp ignition does not make the engine a dog, its just something you need to consider before buying an engine.
I've said this several time on the different post that jett has made bashing the G-20.... A G-26 won't FIT in my plane, the G-20 does and it will hover it... So the G-20 is PERFECT for me in this plane . I'm getting 12lb of thrust and it works great in a 8lb plane.
So Jet give it a rest, all of RCU knows how you feel about the G-20... but we don't care cause we are having fun with ours.

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

TKG,

If you want to run a heavy engine with low power, that is up to you. Many people such as Chevy43 found my information on these engines very useful. If you have such a problem with someone talking about an engine, then you should leave. No one has forced you to read my thread, and on the same token, you have no right to try to keep good information from those that want it.

Why are you so afraid of the facts about this engine being made public ?

JettPilot