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MT Engines

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Old 09-24-2010, 09:55 PM
  #1
jedijody
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Default MT Engines



I have been working extremely hardfor over 7 months on the MT Engines account providing feedback to the factory, making recommendations, setting specifications, and trying tohelp bring quality engines to market in the US. To date, not a single MT Engine has been able to be sold without it being completely disassembled, defective out of spec parts replaced or repaired, andassembly errors corrected. All of the issues have been repeatedly brought to the attention of the factory, some positivechanges have been successfully implemented but their execution on the assembly line has been dismal.



At VVRC our customers are important to us and they come first, our reputation as a leader in customer service and satisfaction offering high quality products to help make our customers modeling experience more enjoyable will not be compromised.I'm tired of being ignored and seeing no real effort to implement any kind ofmeaningful quality control in either component selection or assembly line procedure. As the primary principal at VVRC in charge of technical customer service and gasoline power systems, it is with deep regret and sadness that I havedecided to cease all gasoline enginebusiness with MT Engines at this time, to continueas things are today wouldnot bein the best interests ofour customers. Until such time a better cooperation is able to be established, VVRC will no longer promote, advertise, orpurchaseany MT Engine model. All VVRCcustomers who purchased MT Engines from VVRC will be fully supported to the best of our ability but regrettablywe will no longer be able to offer support of any kind to owners of MT Engines that purchased their engines from MT Engines USA.

These engines are of a very good basic design and it is my fervent hope and desire that sometime in the future MT Engines is able to increase the level of delivered quality, at that time we would be happy to again entertain the prospect ofselling MT Engines.

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Old 09-24-2010, 11:13 PM
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Sorry to hear Jody. I did suspect it would turn out this way, but I was hoping it wouldn't. The basics behind the designs are good and if he could ever change the way they are assembled they would be great engines. In the end they fail because of extremely poor QC. I sold all of mine that I had (57, 62, 80) and will not buy another.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:26 PM
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Good for you guys for not throwing the rest of us into that fire by continuing their line

Bad for us, seemed like a decent engine. I had considered the MT-70 for a 1/3 scale Cub

oh well but there will be better im sure down the line
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:41 AM
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Jodi is not the first to try to do something with the MT line of engines.

Over the last close to three years there have been quite a few tried to do something with it.

Always heard changes would be made on next order but that never happened.

I never got one engine I could sell without having to fix some stupid little thing on it, Timing off, Carb bolts to short, Stripped threads, About 3 different names on ignitions and so on.

They would ship out anything just to full fill a order.

Like Jodi said these could really be some good products if the had one person at the factory checking them out before they were shipped.

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Old 09-25-2010, 04:57 AM
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Two stroke engines are so simple, that the temptation is great to treat them as such. When it comes to detail of design however, simplicity goes out the door, and a lot of knowhow is called for. Come production time, add some decent Quality control to that, and a line of suppliers meeting the required standards.
"Have CNC-will make engines" just does not cut it for mass production (more than 10-off runs)

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Old 09-25-2010, 09:13 AM
  #6
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I have been dealing with China made products now for close to eight years and got into dealing with gas engines a little over 3 years ago.

I guess in all fairness to China made engines it is all in how much extra effort the end dealer is willing to put into them to make them 100%

I don’t think I have seen one brand engine come out of China that has not had problems at one time or another.

I talk to hobby dealers all over the world from time to time and know a couple dealing in the MT engines who say they re having good luck with them, They say they have some minor problems from time to time but that Tomy supports them 100%, with no questions asked, At least that is what they tell me.

One thing for sure that is more than I got from JC engines, I still have some engines here that can not repaired for lack of parts I can not get.

Milton
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:01 PM
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You know some of the funny part about trying to deal with China engine manufactures is I have talked to a lot of them about just selling me the parts and I would do the assembly here.

I have the time and enjoy doing it and also know they are assembled right.

With the right tools and knowledge you can assemble a engine with taking your time in about 30 minutes, It takes me longer to mount and test run a engine than it does to assemble one, Mount it, install muffler, Install the prop, Test run and set the needles seems to take me a while to do and make sure all is right.

Well for some reason, None of them want to do it or either they will price the parts to where they are more than the cost of a assembled engine. ???

The things you have to look for seem to be common in all of them, Striped threads in cases or hall sensor mounting, Threads not cut beep enough to let bolts tighten all the way down, Pistons installed backwards, Prop hub bolts striped out, timing not set right, Carbs that will not draw fuel, Gaskets not installed and a few more I can not think about right now.
Just seems like a lot of them think as long as they are put together, Ship them.

The funny thing also is they know the threads are striped when they assemble the engine because they will use something that looks like CA glue, Like they put it in the striped thread s and just push the bolt in, First time you go to test or tighten it the bolts comes out will all the I guess CA glue still mounted to it.

I have found one company that will sell me parts that are a spin off of DLE parts, I call the engine a DLE-C for DLE clone Lol.

So far have had pretty good luck with it but just have not advertised it much until I make they are going to work out.

When I get the parts there are some that I do not use because of light casting flows and other minor detail that makes them not look up to par, I take those parts and build engines for local guys I know that just want a good running cheap engine that I know will not blast me for every little detail about them.

Milton
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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Shows a Lack of skilled labor over there? Also a lack of responsibility. Apparently they never worked for anyone before? Never had to answer for their short comings? Send it on down the line. Its going far away never to come back.
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

Shows a Lack of skilled labor over there? Also a lack of responsibility. Apparently they never worked for anyone before? Never had to answer for their short comings? Send it on down the line. Its going far away never to come back.
True
But there is someone above the workers telling them to just put something on the threads and still ship the engines or what ever other problems they might have.

Milton
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

Shows a Lack of skilled labor over there? Also a lack of responsibility. Apparently they never worked for anyone before? Never had to answer for their short comings? Send it on down the line. Its going far away never to come back.
True
But there is someone above the workers telling them to just put something on the threads and still ship the engines or what ever other problems they might have.

Milton
The bosses are unskilled too? The only accountability is to get it together and out the door.

We are not there, and there is a possibility that the assembly is a sub contract deal as well as the off the shelf part sourcing we have been talking about? If it is not shipped there is no money? Shows a lack of accountability.

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Old 09-25-2010, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx

You know some of the funny part about trying to deal with China engine manufactures is I have talked to a lot of them about just selling me the parts and I would do the assembly here.

I have the time and enjoy doing it and also know they are assembled right.

With the right tools and knowledge you can assemble a engine with taking your time in about 30 minutes, It takes me longer to mount and test run a engine than it does to assemble one, Mount it, install muffler, Install the prop, Test run and set the needles seems to take me a while to do and make sure all is right.

Well for some reason, None of them want to do it or either they will price the parts to where they are more than the cost of a assembled engine. ???

The things you have to look for seem to be common in all of them, Striped threads in cases or hall sensor mounting, Threads not cut beep enough to let bolts tighten all the way down, Pistons installed backwards, Prop hub bolts striped out, timing not set right, Carbs that will not draw fuel, Gaskets not installed and a few more I can not think about right now.
Just seems like a lot of them think as long as they are put together, Ship them.

The funny thing also is they know the threads are striped when they assemble the engine because they will use something that looks like CA glue, Like they put it in the striped thread s and just push the bolt in, First time you go to test or tighten it the bolts comes out will all the I guess CA glue still mounted to it.

I have found one company that will sell me parts that are a spin off of DLE parts, I call the engine a DLE-C for DLE clone Lol.

So far have had pretty good luck with it but just have not advertised it much until I make they are going to work out.

When I get the parts there are some that I do not use because of light casting flows and other minor detail that makes them not look up to par, I take those parts and build engines for local guys I know that just want a good running cheap engine that I know will not blast me for every little detail about them.

Milton
Hello Milton,
We tried to get Tomy to just sell us the parts for the MT-70 and he refused.It takes Jody about one hour to disassemble an engine, replace or repair what is needed and reassemble the engine.Wouldn’t you think Tomy would do this since Jody put in many hours trying to help make this a good engine?
Tom
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: denney47


Quote:
ORIGINAL: BadAzzMaxx

You know some of the funny part about trying to deal with China engine manufactures is I have talked to a lot of them about just selling me the parts and I would do the assembly here.

I have the time and enjoy doing it and also know they are assembled right.

With the right tools and knowledge you can assemble a engine with taking your time in about 30 minutes, It takes me longer to mount and test run a engine than it does to assemble one, Mount it, install muffler, Install the prop, Test run and set the needles seems to take me a while to do and make sure all is right.

Well for some reason, None of them want to do it or either they will price the parts to where they are more than the cost of a assembled engine. ???

The things you have to look for seem to be common in all of them, Striped threads in cases or hall sensor mounting, Threads not cut beep enough to let bolts tighten all the way down, Pistons installed backwards, Prop hub bolts striped out, timing not set right, Carbs that will not draw fuel, Gaskets not installed and a few more I can not think about right now.
Just seems like a lot of them think as long as they are put together, Ship them.

The funny thing also is they know the threads are striped when they assemble the engine because they will use something that looks like CA glue, Like they put it in the striped thread s and just push the bolt in, First time you go to test or tighten it the bolts comes out will all the I guess CA glue still mounted to it.

I have found one company that will sell me parts that are a spin off of DLE parts, I call the engine a DLE-C for DLE clone Lol.

So far have had pretty good luck with it but just have not advertised it much until I make they are going to work out.

When I get the parts there are some that I do not use because of light casting flows and other minor detail that makes them not look up to par, I take those parts and build engines for local guys I know that just want a good running cheap engine that I know will not blast me for every little detail about them.

Milton
Hello Milton,
We tried to get Tomy to just sell us the parts for the MT-70 and he refused. It takes Jody about one hour to disassemble an engine, replace or repair what is needed and reassemble the engine. Wouldn’t you think Tomy would do this since Jody put in many hours trying to help make this a good engine?
Tom
Valley View RC
Has never made sense to me.???
Guess it must be a ego thing

Milton
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:33 PM
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Mr. Shen has a greed problem and always has. He can get more money by selling complete engines by the container load than he can a few parts. He has tried to
manipulate his distributors several times in the past, kicking his own butt each time. Looks like he's still following the same path.

I can't imagine how bad the situation must be this time for Jody to toss in the towel. I don't believe I've ever met anyone with more patience than Jody and Tom Denney.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:19 AM
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Hello Jody,

It’s very regret and sadness to know VVRC are decided to not marketing MT engines. anyhow I’m grateful about you did for help us about everything .

Lot’s of good idea and opinion that you gave us to make engines have more power and met to USA market requirement .like use big bore carb, 4 bolts new hub, fiberglass reed for MT35. and DA 50 bolts pattern for MT70s…….., we follow those suggestion and did improvement for the engines like that, and it’s works.

Now things is changed,. For customer interest, we are going to make some decision and action for service end user of MT engines.
1. MTCN are going to supply what ever parts that VVRC need to do the service to the end user.
2. MTCN are going to give direct support and service for end users and dealers.
3. Every engines are going to do factory pre-run and make sure quality are good for the end user. Than ship out( last shipment of MT35 and MT70s to USA market are did factory pre-run and checked )
4. we are going to establish new marketing center and service facility to achieve good service to our user.

At the end. Many thanks for your support.

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Old 09-26-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tomyrcmodels

Hello Jody,

It’s very regret and sadness to know VVRC are decided to not marketing MT engines. anyhow I’m grateful about you did for help us about everything .

Lot’s of good idea and opinion that you gave us to make engines have more power and met to USA market requirement .like use big bore carb, 4 bolts new hub, fiberglass reed for MT35. and DA 50 bolts pattern for MT70s…….., we follow those suggestion and did improvement for the engines like that, and it’s works.

Now things is changed,. For customer interest, we are going to make some decision and action for service end user of MT engines.
1. MTCN are going to supply what ever parts that VVRC need to do the service to the end user.
2. MTCN are going to give direct support and service for end users and dealers.
3. Every engines are going to do factory pre-run and make sure quality are good for the end user. Than ship out( last shipment of MT35 and MT70s to USA market are did factory pre-run and checked )
4. we are going to establish new marketing center and service facility to achieve good service to our user.

At the end. Many thanks for your support.
Sounds all good but maybe it's too little too late.

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Old 09-26-2010, 01:54 PM
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Never too late, but it will take time to build trust that was lost. Sort of like having a mate that cheated on you. You still love them and might even stay with them, but you'll watch them like a hawk and never fully trust them again.

I was really hoping the 70 twin would have worked out....
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:07 PM
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Yea, so was i,there is a diffenet market for a strong lite twin that fits in a cowl of a 30%r.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: tomyrcmodels

Hello Jody,

It’s very regret and sadness to know VVRC are decided to not marketing MT engines. anyhow I’m grateful about you did for help us about everything .

Lot’s of good idea and opinion that you gave us to make engines have more power and met to USA market requirement .like use big bore carb, 4 bolts new hub, fiberglass reed for MT35. and DA 50 bolts pattern for MT70s…….., we follow those suggestion and did improvement for the engines like that, and it’s works.

Now things is changed,. For customer interest, we are going to make some decision and action for service end user of MT engines.
1. MTCN are going to supply what ever parts that VVRC need to do the service to the end user.
2. MTCN are going to give direct support and service for end users and dealers.
3. Every engines are going to do factory pre-run and make sure quality are good for the end user. Than ship out( last shipment of MT35 and MT70s to USA market are did factory pre-run and checked )
4. we are going to establish new marketing center and service facility to achieve good service to our user.

At the end. Many thanks for your support.

The engines were supposed to be "factory pre-run and make sure quality are good for end user" in June 2010 and I can assure everyone that was not the case.

Tomy says the "last shipment to the US market did factory pre-run and checked" and they still didn't meet Jody's standards for quality control.

Unless Jody and Tom from Valley View sell these engines I would never buy one again.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:25 PM
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None of the 70cc engines were ever pre-run.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:46 PM
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Sad, Sad, Sad. I sure would've liked to have a 70. I've checked the VVRC web site regularly hoping the 70 would show up to replace my tired old DL50.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:14 PM
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The DLE 55 is a pretty good replacement for that. If you just had to have a twin the 3w 56 is a very good engine but it's right pricey for the displacement.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:26 PM
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Mostly as I suspected, they are sending out poorly assembled boxes of trouble. If I ever get my 70s back from China, I'll try to reassemble it myself. Whether or not I'd trust it on one of my planes is a different story. I have had pretty good luck with all of my Chinese engines before this one though.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:16 AM
  #23
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Mr. Burman,

Your engine is being replaced by VVRC, not MT Engines, even though we were not paid anything for taking care of you. You will not need to take it apart and fix it before you use it and you will be able to trust your plane with it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:19 AM
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What better can you ask than that

Milton.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:32 AM
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Well, to my surprise, Larry's site is still up

http://www.lsproengines.com/

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