Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
02-19-2011, 09:39 PM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: nonstoprc
The ring idea is clever.
The only downside is that you need to sort of remember the exact position arrangement the ring with respect to the prop and the spinner, when you want to reinstall the combo. It seems the ring can be integrated into the back plate of the spinner.
Will i use it? Sure, when I find myself in a position not to balance a prop, such as in a competition where you do not have a balanced prop. It is unlikely but can happen.
The ring idea is clever.
The only downside is that you need to sort of remember the exact position arrangement the ring with respect to the prop and the spinner, when you want to reinstall the combo. It seems the ring can be integrated into the back plate of the spinner.
Will i use it? Sure, when I find myself in a position not to balance a prop, such as in a competition where you do not have a balanced prop. It is unlikely but can happen.
That is what a sharpie is for. Just mark it and it is very easy to line up.
02-20-2011, 04:45 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
I agree. My opinion is that although ARF's are here now as a time saver they are ruining the hobby of building and learning about airplanes. I prefer to build one piece at a time. To me that is called relaxation and enjoyment. As far as I'm concerned many ARF's are junk right out of the box. I have put together a few from different mfr's and some were better than others but, still not the quality I would like to see. They are mass produced in Asian countries and then sent here to sell at prices that don't reflect the value of the product. I come from the old school too. Getting older now and retired. Still like to build.
02-20-2011, 07:07 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
i like the vbr too, it seems quicker and easier than clear coating one side of a prop and checking again after dry, etc......
02-20-2011, 07:11 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
here is a vid i made of a before and after of the vbr, 1st one i let the camera go the entire time so you can see i didnt do anything other than add the vbr, at 1st i didnt notice anything dramatic, but after a flew it it "felt" smoother somehow, also some who commented on the vid in another thread said you can hear less vibration in the covering and the wheel pants shake less, i do beilieve it worked, and that prop was balanced the "old fashion" way with clear coat to start with, so there was an improvment with the vbr even thinking i had it right...the 2nd link is a shorter version so you hear the run up closer to each other, the longer one i had a hard time finding the hole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8GyyyH3poo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MMVk9Tc2Ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8GyyyH3poo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MMVk9Tc2Ic
02-20-2011, 07:21 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: mike31
I agree. My opinion is that although ARF's are here now as a time saver they are ruining the hobby of building and learning about airplanes. I prefer to build one piece at a time. To me that is called relaxation and enjoyment. As far as I'm concerned many ARF's are junk right out of the box. I have put together a few from different mfr's and some were better than others but, still not the quality I would like to see. They are mass produced in Asian countries and then sent here to sell at prices that don't reflect the value of the product. I come from the old school too. Getting older now and retired. Still like to build.
I agree. My opinion is that although ARF's are here now as a time saver they are ruining the hobby of building and learning about airplanes. I prefer to build one piece at a time. To me that is called relaxation and enjoyment. As far as I'm concerned many ARF's are junk right out of the box. I have put together a few from different mfr's and some were better than others but, still not the quality I would like to see. They are mass produced in Asian countries and then sent here to sell at prices that don't reflect the value of the product. I come from the old school too. Getting older now and retired. Still like to build.
You just confirmed your FOG status. This is a product you would never use, so there is no use commenting on it.
02-20-2011, 08:00 AM
#57
RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
I am sure the VBR works well..
I come from many years of flying Heli's as well as planes.. In balancing rotor blades you must first match the CG of the blades then start the weight matching process. In doing this you are assured of not only having the blades balance but that the location of the mass is in the same area.. In using the VBR it seems that you are centralizing the mass at the hub to offset a mass out in the blade portion. Though it will static balance in actual use it seems it would not be dynamically balanced..
I am purhaps off base here and if so disregard.. Although I will continue to use the old fashioned method anyway...
Rick
I come from many years of flying Heli's as well as planes.. In balancing rotor blades you must first match the CG of the blades then start the weight matching process. In doing this you are assured of not only having the blades balance but that the location of the mass is in the same area.. In using the VBR it seems that you are centralizing the mass at the hub to offset a mass out in the blade portion. Though it will static balance in actual use it seems it would not be dynamically balanced..
I am purhaps off base here and if so disregard.. Although I will continue to use the old fashioned method anyway...
Rick
02-20-2011, 08:19 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing that matters in terms of vibration in a rotating assembly is that the CG is at the center of rotation, yes? The internal stresses will be different if you have the CG of each blade off by a mile, but in terms of vibration it doesn't really matter.
Adding mass to the "light" side of the center of any rotating assembly will move the CG closer to the center of rotation where you want it.
My first giant scale purchase was pretty recent, and I've never really balanced my 40-120 size props because it never seemed to matter much. I fired up the DLE55 and the thing shook the plane seemingly to death. My prop was off-balance, but the blades were the same weight. I had a hub issue, which would require adding weight to the hub on the 'side,' which requires a LOT of material, which may or may not stick forever. The cheap carbon spinner was also pretty far out of balance, which drove me nuts. I balanced it with CA, and got it pretty darn close but the CA didn't stick as well as I had planned.
I saw the VBR and bought one as soon as I possibly could. I also picked up the du-bro balancer. I put everything on there, with the prop bolts in the thing, and taped my spinner on and put the assembly on the balancer. After adding 5 setscrews, the assembly would stop randomly and I bolted it on the airplane. Next time out, the plane was quieter, ran up smoother, wheel pants weren't shaking themselves to death, etc. It was amazing. It works. As soon as there's one for the DLE30, I will be bolting one onto my Decathlon as well.
Also, FWIW, my Vess props required between 2-5 screws to balance, and my one Xoar required 4 if I remember right. Anyone who expects a prop to be good out of the box is delusional or blindly lazy. A friend of mine has a Mejzlik carbon prop that shakes his plane to death, and is in complete denial that it could possibly be out of balance... Oh well!
-Eric
Adding mass to the "light" side of the center of any rotating assembly will move the CG closer to the center of rotation where you want it.
My first giant scale purchase was pretty recent, and I've never really balanced my 40-120 size props because it never seemed to matter much. I fired up the DLE55 and the thing shook the plane seemingly to death. My prop was off-balance, but the blades were the same weight. I had a hub issue, which would require adding weight to the hub on the 'side,' which requires a LOT of material, which may or may not stick forever. The cheap carbon spinner was also pretty far out of balance, which drove me nuts. I balanced it with CA, and got it pretty darn close but the CA didn't stick as well as I had planned.
I saw the VBR and bought one as soon as I possibly could. I also picked up the du-bro balancer. I put everything on there, with the prop bolts in the thing, and taped my spinner on and put the assembly on the balancer. After adding 5 setscrews, the assembly would stop randomly and I bolted it on the airplane. Next time out, the plane was quieter, ran up smoother, wheel pants weren't shaking themselves to death, etc. It was amazing. It works. As soon as there's one for the DLE30, I will be bolting one onto my Decathlon as well.
Also, FWIW, my Vess props required between 2-5 screws to balance, and my one Xoar required 4 if I remember right. Anyone who expects a prop to be good out of the box is delusional or blindly lazy. A friend of mine has a Mejzlik carbon prop that shakes his plane to death, and is in complete denial that it could possibly be out of balance... Oh well!
-Eric
02-20-2011, 09:11 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: TheRickster
I am sure the VBR works well..
I come from many years of flying Heli's as well as planes.. In balancing rotor blades you must first match the CG of the blades then start the weight matching process. In doing this you are assured of not only having the blades balance but that the location of the mass is in the same area.. In using the VBR it seems that you are centralizing the mass at the hub to offset a mass out in the blade portion. Though it will static balance in actual use it seems it would not be dynamically balanced..
I am purhaps off base here and if so disregard.. Although I will continue to use the old fashioned method anyway...
Rick
I am sure the VBR works well..
I come from many years of flying Heli's as well as planes.. In balancing rotor blades you must first match the CG of the blades then start the weight matching process. In doing this you are assured of not only having the blades balance but that the location of the mass is in the same area.. In using the VBR it seems that you are centralizing the mass at the hub to offset a mass out in the blade portion. Though it will static balance in actual use it seems it would not be dynamically balanced..
I am purhaps off base here and if so disregard.. Although I will continue to use the old fashioned method anyway...
Rick
02-20-2011, 09:50 AM
#60
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Of larger issue is the fact that a large number of people do not consider balancing a prop yet will complain of heavy vibration. Even after being informed to balance a prop the most they will do is go buy another prop in the hopes it has better balance than the last one.
Then we have the condition where some fail to recognize a gas engine has a different combustion pusle frequency from a glow engine, along with a greater counter balance imbalance on singles, and the perceptions become even worse.
Then we have the condition where some fail to recognize a gas engine has a different combustion pusle frequency from a glow engine, along with a greater counter balance imbalance on singles, and the perceptions become even worse.
02-20-2011, 09:53 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Of larger issue is the fact that a large number of people do not consider balancing a prop yet will complain of heavy vibration. Even after being informed to balance a prop the most they will do is go buy another prop in the hopes it has better balance than the last one.
Then we have the condition where some fail to recognize a gas engine has a different combustion pusle frequency from a glow engine, along with a greater counter balance imbalance on singles, and the perceptions become even worse.
Of larger issue is the fact that a large number of people do not consider balancing a prop yet will complain of heavy vibration. Even after being informed to balance a prop the most they will do is go buy another prop in the hopes it has better balance than the last one.
Then we have the condition where some fail to recognize a gas engine has a different combustion pusle frequency from a glow engine, along with a greater counter balance imbalance on singles, and the perceptions become even worse.
02-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
I like that, villify everyone that disagrees as not having experience or knowledge of the product
That indicates a fixed mindset that rejects anyone that has a valid, but different, viewpoint.
I like that, villify everyone that disagrees as not having experience or knowledge of the product
That indicates a fixed mindset that rejects anyone that has a valid, but different, viewpoint.
The OP did ask;
ORIGINAL: skysfallin
Has anyone tried the Vess Balance ring, and to what degree of success..........................Just curious as to anyones actual use.
Has anyone tried the Vess Balance ring, and to what degree of success..........................Just curious as to anyones actual use.
Life is all about change. Some embrace it[sm=thumbup.gif], some struggle with it[sm=50_50.gif], and a few view change as a threat to themselves[sm=angry_smile.gif].
Young minds with fresh new ideas need to be welcomed, not attacked or rejected by a few with different viewpoints.
pe reivers did make a very good[sm=thumbs_up.gif] and relevant post on such;
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
The times are changing all the time. For us old ones, they not always change for the best, or so we think. The best we can do is transfer as much of our knowhow as possible. New basic products will set new user standards, and there will be no turning back.
The times are changing all the time. For us old ones, they not always change for the best, or so we think. The best we can do is transfer as much of our knowhow as possible. New basic products will set new user standards, and there will be no turning back.
The old ways will continue to be good ways, but they're NOT the ONLY way.
Robert Vess has great products, and I like others welcome his innovative new ideas.[sm=idea.gif]
His VBR is a very good product which should be welcomed with an open mind, not attacked.
02-20-2011, 10:37 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Rick is right.
The per blade balance sets the single blade properties. If you do not do that, you can balance til you drop, but never get the blades to work as a team.
In propellers we cannot do that.
About mass:
The closer to the hub, the more mass is needed for balancing. It makes a big difference where the mass is located. Props that need a lot of balance mass, are too far off in my book, and should be used for stirring paint.
The per blade balance sets the single blade properties. If you do not do that, you can balance til you drop, but never get the blades to work as a team.
In propellers we cannot do that.
About mass:
The closer to the hub, the more mass is needed for balancing. It makes a big difference where the mass is located. Props that need a lot of balance mass, are too far off in my book, and should be used for stirring paint.
02-20-2011, 11:03 AM
#65
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Good point. Even single blade racing props are balanced, but it takes more mass at the hub to do so.
A1pc,
It's not about embracing or rejecting change. It's more about making the determination that any given change is for the better, or provides greater value than what had gone before. For the terminally lazy or the uneducated, the Vess ring is a hot ticket. For those that are willing to expend the same amount of time but have the knowledge to perform the task, it's not worth the investement. Each has to make the decision based upon the amount of information and experience they have.
So I have yet to say the Vess balance ring is a waste of time and money because for some, and I will agree those will generally be people that have grown up with arfs, it a good deal. For people with experience, and builders that understand how things work, it's not such a great deal. Everyone that uses one will be paying extra for something that is really uneccessary since the same end result can be obtained without the Vess ring. I suppose it depends whether or not someone is a modeler or someone that can only assemble bolt on components to achieve a goal. The two types are quite different in their abilities.
A1pc,
It's not about embracing or rejecting change. It's more about making the determination that any given change is for the better, or provides greater value than what had gone before. For the terminally lazy or the uneducated, the Vess ring is a hot ticket. For those that are willing to expend the same amount of time but have the knowledge to perform the task, it's not worth the investement. Each has to make the decision based upon the amount of information and experience they have.
So I have yet to say the Vess balance ring is a waste of time and money because for some, and I will agree those will generally be people that have grown up with arfs, it a good deal. For people with experience, and builders that understand how things work, it's not such a great deal. Everyone that uses one will be paying extra for something that is really uneccessary since the same end result can be obtained without the Vess ring. I suppose it depends whether or not someone is a modeler or someone that can only assemble bolt on components to achieve a goal. The two types are quite different in their abilities.
02-20-2011, 11:37 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
Rick is right.
The per blade balance sets the single blade properties. If you do not do that, you can balance til you drop, but never get the blades to work as a team.
In propellers we cannot do that.
About mass:
The closer to the hub, the more mass is needed for balancing. It makes a big difference where the mass is located. Props that need a lot of balance mass, are too far off in my book, and should be used for stirring paint.
Rick is right.
The per blade balance sets the single blade properties. If you do not do that, you can balance til you drop, but never get the blades to work as a team.
In propellers we cannot do that.
About mass:
The closer to the hub, the more mass is needed for balancing. It makes a big difference where the mass is located. Props that need a lot of balance mass, are too far off in my book, and should be used for stirring paint.
I couldn't agree more with that statement.
02-20-2011, 11:37 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Ahh, but it is all about embracing or rejecting change!
Newb's not only embrace new ways, they most often are the ones creating new ways.
The old guard unfortunately, are the ones most resistant to any change, screaming
and hollering every misconcieved negative thought possible about new ways & ideas. It's factual
human nature to resist change as one gets older.[&o]
The truly wise take the new ways, and add them to the old ways, thereby having the best of both![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
If the old way was the ONLY way, life would stagnate & nothing new would ever come along.
For those NOT stuck in the past, VBR's are a welcomed innovation!
It's up to the user to decide who's shining them on & who's on target.
Newb's not only embrace new ways, they most often are the ones creating new ways.
The old guard unfortunately, are the ones most resistant to any change, screaming
and hollering every misconcieved negative thought possible about new ways & ideas. It's factual
human nature to resist change as one gets older.[&o]
The truly wise take the new ways, and add them to the old ways, thereby having the best of both![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
If the old way was the ONLY way, life would stagnate & nothing new would ever come along.
For those NOT stuck in the past, VBR's are a welcomed innovation!
It's up to the user to decide who's shining them on & who's on target.
02-20-2011, 11:41 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Good point. Even single blade racing props are balanced, but it takes more mass at the hub to do so.
A1pc,
It's not about embracing or rejecting change. It's more about making the determination that any given change is for the better, or provides greater value than what had gone before. For the terminally lazy or the uneducated, the Vess ring is a hot ticket. For those that are willing to expend the same amount of time but have the knowledge to perform the task, it's not worth the investement. Each has to make the decision based upon the amount of information and experience they have.
So I have yet to say the Vess balance ring is a waste of time and money because for some, and I will agree those will generally be people that have grown up with arfs, it a good deal. For people with experience, and builders that understand how things work, it's not such a great deal. Everyone that uses one will be paying extra for something that is really uneccessary since the same end result can be obtained without the Vess ring. I suppose it depends whether or not someone is a modeler or someone that can only assemble bolt on components to achieve a goal. The two types are quite different in their abilities.
Good point. Even single blade racing props are balanced, but it takes more mass at the hub to do so.
A1pc,
It's not about embracing or rejecting change. It's more about making the determination that any given change is for the better, or provides greater value than what had gone before. For the terminally lazy or the uneducated, the Vess ring is a hot ticket. For those that are willing to expend the same amount of time but have the knowledge to perform the task, it's not worth the investement. Each has to make the decision based upon the amount of information and experience they have.
So I have yet to say the Vess balance ring is a waste of time and money because for some, and I will agree those will generally be people that have grown up with arfs, it a good deal. For people with experience, and builders that understand how things work, it's not such a great deal. Everyone that uses one will be paying extra for something that is really uneccessary since the same end result can be obtained without the Vess ring. I suppose it depends whether or not someone is a modeler or someone that can only assemble bolt on components to achieve a goal. The two types are quite different in their abilities.
Do you really think this thing balances your prop for you? Come on. So I am lazy and uneducated because I like to balance my prop and spinner together a different way than you do?
02-20-2011, 11:44 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: a1pcfixer
Ahh, but it is all about embracing or rejecting change!
Newb's not only embrace new ways, they most often are the ones creating new ways.
The old guard unfortunately, are the ones most resistant to any change, screaming
and hollering every misconcieved negative thought possible about new ways & ideas. It's factual
human nature to resist change as one gets older.[&o]
The truly wise take the new ways, and add them to the old ways, thereby having the best of both![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
If the old way was the ONLY way, life would stagnate & nothing new would ever come along.
For those NOT stuck in the past, VBR's are a welcomed innovation!
It's up to the user to decide who's shining them on & who's on target.
Ahh, but it is all about embracing or rejecting change!
Newb's not only embrace new ways, they most often are the ones creating new ways.
The old guard unfortunately, are the ones most resistant to any change, screaming
and hollering every misconcieved negative thought possible about new ways & ideas. It's factual
human nature to resist change as one gets older.[&o]
The truly wise take the new ways, and add them to the old ways, thereby having the best of both![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
If the old way was the ONLY way, life would stagnate & nothing new would ever come along.
For those NOT stuck in the past, VBR's are a welcomed innovation!
It's up to the user to decide who's shining them on & who's on target.
Keep quiet now. You are a dumb lazy ***** because you don't balance your prop and spinner the old way. Your half tarded because you don't scratch build your own planes. Nothing new is good, so just get that through your thick skull.
02-20-2011, 11:49 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Just because I don't choose to scratch build my own planes doesn't not make me incapable, nor does it diminish my admiration for the craftmanship involved. To suggest otherwise is insulting and almost certainly hypocritical. Since hand carving propellers is the way it used to be done, and requires immense skill and experience, then we should never, ever, buy a prop from a manufacturer? Is that the just of the argument? Maybe I should get rid of my ARFs and build myself a nice 25# warbird and power it with an OS .91 and attempt to fly around in circles, that is, if I ever get the time to fly the damn thing with all the building and hand carving props that is!
02-20-2011, 11:57 AM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
Maybe you're right.
Maybe we should all go back to tin cans and string.
I'm an old buzzard that still embraces new things.
What was I thinking?
Funny though, how the negative posters here, don't join the VBR thread over there.
Maybe we should all go back to tin cans and string.
I'm an old buzzard that still embraces new things.
What was I thinking?
Funny though, how the negative posters here, don't join the VBR thread over there.
02-20-2011, 12:49 PM
#73
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
That post just says "awesome"!, "great", "XXXX" etc ad infinitum; It seems to be the new vocabulary in a nutshell.
This thread, which started out as a discussion, however has degraded to namecalling and denial of a person's view of matters that matter. I cannot well define my point of view in such, not being opposed to change, but weary of change because of change. I believe in the well enough to be let alone. Not every change is for the better, and I agree with T.O.M. if he takes the stand in that point of view.
If all parts are balanced as they should be, indeed the ring Robert devised is not needed, because the randomized sum of imbalance issues in single parts tends to equalize each other. In those cases that there is still a theoretical amount of unbalance it takes special tools and an amount of skill to get rid of it. I will not go there denying anyone the skill. People have surprised me before! I find the price however quite high, and in my case it would require me to buy the balancer that I do not want to use. Another gadget on my already overloaded shelves.
Furthermore, the use of the ring in the other thread has so far not resulted in convincing result reports. To be frank, it cannot be convincing, unless measurements are reported.
A simple measurement would be to mount accelerometers to the plane nose, and run up the engine. Publish resulting X-Y axis related tertz band analisys before and after! That is what I meant by required skills. All other methods will be groping in the dark in a haphazard way.
This thread, which started out as a discussion, however has degraded to namecalling and denial of a person's view of matters that matter. I cannot well define my point of view in such, not being opposed to change, but weary of change because of change. I believe in the well enough to be let alone. Not every change is for the better, and I agree with T.O.M. if he takes the stand in that point of view.
If all parts are balanced as they should be, indeed the ring Robert devised is not needed, because the randomized sum of imbalance issues in single parts tends to equalize each other. In those cases that there is still a theoretical amount of unbalance it takes special tools and an amount of skill to get rid of it. I will not go there denying anyone the skill. People have surprised me before! I find the price however quite high, and in my case it would require me to buy the balancer that I do not want to use. Another gadget on my already overloaded shelves.
Furthermore, the use of the ring in the other thread has so far not resulted in convincing result reports. To be frank, it cannot be convincing, unless measurements are reported.
A simple measurement would be to mount accelerometers to the plane nose, and run up the engine. Publish resulting X-Y axis related tertz band analisys before and after! That is what I meant by required skills. All other methods will be groping in the dark in a haphazard way.
02-20-2011, 12:55 PM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: rchusker
Seriously??????
Find me a xoar...or menz for that matter that balances completely perfect out of the box. I would pay good money for that.
If you are actually flying props(especially large props) without balancing them because the manufacturer claims that they are already balanced...you are not only risking damage to your airframe from vibration but you are also being unsafe...
ORIGINAL: Whistling Death
I was wondering the same thing.........
I just use Xoar props and enjoy myself.
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
When looking at it, How on earth are you going to define the exact location and weight that must be applied. A hit and miss affair at best or added expenses again, and like TOM said, added weight.
I am convinced that Robert responded to customer request, which shows that not all is well in our hobby.
Much better to use products like Mejzlik/Xoar propellers and Mejzlik spinners just to name a few that are balanced to start out with. I am sure there are other quality products that do not have issues.
When looking at it, How on earth are you going to define the exact location and weight that must be applied. A hit and miss affair at best or added expenses again, and like TOM said, added weight.
I am convinced that Robert responded to customer request, which shows that not all is well in our hobby.
Much better to use products like Mejzlik/Xoar propellers and Mejzlik spinners just to name a few that are balanced to start out with. I am sure there are other quality products that do not have issues.
I just use Xoar props and enjoy myself.
Find me a xoar...or menz for that matter that balances completely perfect out of the box. I would pay good money for that.
If you are actually flying props(especially large props) without balancing them because the manufacturer claims that they are already balanced...you are not only risking damage to your airframe from vibration but you are also being unsafe...
..
02-20-2011, 01:02 PM
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RE: Vess Balance Ring, Anygood?
ORIGINAL: pe reivers
That post just says ''awesome''!, ''great'', ''XXXX'' etc ad infinitum; It seems to be the new vocabulary in a nutshell.
This thread, which started out as a discussion, however has degraded to namecalling and denial of a person's view of matters that matter. I cannot well define my point of view in such, not being opposed to change, but weary of change because of change. I believe in the well enough to be let alone. Not every change is for the better, and I agree with T.O.M. if he takes the stand in that point of view.
If all parts are balanced as they should be, indeed the ring Robert devised is not needed, because the randomized sum of imbalance issues in single parts tends to equalize each other. In those cases that there is still a theoretical amount of unbalance it takes special tools and an amount of skill to get rid of it. I will not go there denying anyone the skill. People have surprised me before! I find the price however quite high, and in my case it would require me to buy the balancer that I do not want to use. Another gadget on my already overloaded shelves.
Furthermore, the use of the ring in the other thread has so far not resulted in convincing result reports. To be frank, it cannot be convincing, unless measurements are reported.
A simple measurement would be to mount accelerometers to the plane nose, and run up the engine. Publish resulting X-Y axis related tertz band analisys before and after! That is what I meant by required skills. All other methods will be groping in the dark in a haphazard way.
That post just says ''awesome''!, ''great'', ''XXXX'' etc ad infinitum; It seems to be the new vocabulary in a nutshell.
This thread, which started out as a discussion, however has degraded to namecalling and denial of a person's view of matters that matter. I cannot well define my point of view in such, not being opposed to change, but weary of change because of change. I believe in the well enough to be let alone. Not every change is for the better, and I agree with T.O.M. if he takes the stand in that point of view.
If all parts are balanced as they should be, indeed the ring Robert devised is not needed, because the randomized sum of imbalance issues in single parts tends to equalize each other. In those cases that there is still a theoretical amount of unbalance it takes special tools and an amount of skill to get rid of it. I will not go there denying anyone the skill. People have surprised me before! I find the price however quite high, and in my case it would require me to buy the balancer that I do not want to use. Another gadget on my already overloaded shelves.
Furthermore, the use of the ring in the other thread has so far not resulted in convincing result reports. To be frank, it cannot be convincing, unless measurements are reported.
A simple measurement would be to mount accelerometers to the plane nose, and run up the engine. Publish resulting X-Y axis related tertz band analisys before and after! That is what I meant by required skills. All other methods will be groping in the dark in a haphazard way.
Well, I really don't know how anyone could argue with that. Perhaps Vess should go to the trouble of making the appropriate measurements in order to deter these kinds of debates, and convince potential buyers. Meanwhile we are stuck with anecdotal evidence at best, which is unlikley to convince someone like T.O.M. who has a tremendous amount of real world experience in dealing with these size engines and propellers. I know I'd be trying to win him, and possibly his employers, over if it were my product! Perhaps the tests have been run and the results proved negligible? For my money, it just makes sense, and at the end of the day, it's my money after all.