What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
04-17-2011, 05:22 AM
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What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
I have heard alot of comments about 3 blade props being quieter and some say theyre noiser. Im trying to quiet this down a little, installing cans this week. Also wondering what size 3 blade to run. Its in an Aeroworks 260 used for imac. Thanks
04-17-2011, 05:33 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
I had the same question, but not specifically about noise:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10443105
top recommendations were Mejlik 25x12, Bielia 25x10 or similarly sized Fuchs props.
But I'm sure someone will soon chime in about the noise associated with each.
Noah
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10443105
top recommendations were Mejlik 25x12, Bielia 25x10 or similarly sized Fuchs props.
But I'm sure someone will soon chime in about the noise associated with each.
Noah
04-17-2011, 06:53 AM
#3
RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Get in touch with these guys. They give good advise and have great three bladed props. Dan.
http://www.zingerpropeller.com/
http://www.zingerpropeller.com/
04-17-2011, 07:02 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Zinger? Yikes. 
I also fly IMAC with a DLE111 equipped 35%er. I use the Biela 25X10 and it is perfect. I consistently scored 10s for sound. It pulls great and really slows down on the downlines and landing.
I also fly IMAC with a DLE111 equipped 35%er. I use the Biela 25X10 and it is perfect. I consistently scored 10s for sound. It pulls great and really slows down on the downlines and landing.
04-17-2011, 07:14 AM
#6
RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
ORIGINAL: chris923
Nothing wrong with Zinger.
They are very Helpfull.
If you have a guality issue, tell us what it is.
Chris923
Nothing wrong with Zinger.
They are very Helpfull.
If you have a guality issue, tell us what it is.
Chris923
04-17-2011, 08:29 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
The blades flex far too much, wasting energy. The tip shapes are not efficient, wasting energy. They might make props for large flight purposes that eork out at lower RPM but for modeling they just don't work out unless you buy them well oversized and cut them down to get to stiffer wood. The airfoil shape and depth is incorrectly located on the blade span to maximize performance. If you're counting RPM to make a performance call you're only fooling yourself.
A prop is supposed to convert rotational energy to thrust. How efficiently it does that equates to performance. Spinning faster does not make a prop more efficient, or equate to more thrust.
A prop is supposed to convert rotational energy to thrust. How efficiently it does that equates to performance. Spinning faster does not make a prop more efficient, or equate to more thrust.
04-17-2011, 08:50 AM
#11
RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
25x12, 25x10, 3 blades for the DLE111, as mentioned earlier, Biela, Fuchs, and Mejzlik seem to be the top performers with the first two being thequietest.
I don't design props, I test them. Can't tell you why a prop doesn't work as well as another but can verify the results through thrust, acoustic, and flight testing. Don't waste your time or money on a Zinger prop for gas powered model aircraft.
I don't design props, I test them. Can't tell you why a prop doesn't work as well as another but can verify the results through thrust, acoustic, and flight testing. Don't waste your time or money on a Zinger prop for gas powered model aircraft.
04-17-2011, 11:59 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
One area where they do somewhat well. That's with a warbird, but a warbird really only has one flight speed. The engine is wound up tight all the time or the plane is behind the power curve. For this type of flight a Zinger manages to get the job done. A prop does not have to perform well at lower rpm and flight speed for this kind of flying.
However, those in the know understand the plane has to slow down sometime and having a prop that moves air effectively over a wide RPM/speed range take advantage of better props to provide landings maintaining a much higher level of control. Those willing to spend a little money and perform a few of their own comparison tests learn this quickly. The cheapest props are not the best props. Because a prop is sold in every hobbu shop does not make a good one. Only acceptable for certain purposes or having a recognized name.
However, those in the know understand the plane has to slow down sometime and having a prop that moves air effectively over a wide RPM/speed range take advantage of better props to provide landings maintaining a much higher level of control. Those willing to spend a little money and perform a few of their own comparison tests learn this quickly. The cheapest props are not the best props. Because a prop is sold in every hobbu shop does not make a good one. Only acceptable for certain purposes or having a recognized name.
04-17-2011, 05:07 PM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Maybe you should re-read your own thread, you asked, you got answers and info to back up the answers.
That what the forum is for.
Chris923
That what the forum is for.
Chris923
04-17-2011, 05:09 PM
#16
RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Jeff, Now that the other guys have vented their passion, here's some more valid data. I am in a club that has around 450 members. Large IMAC models are very popular. I have seen many models with 100cc engines and up using Zinger two and three bladed propellers. I never had the occassion to ask them if they were any good. I can only assume it from my observation. I have used their 20 inch two bladed props since 1995 and they have been excellent. Zinger makes props in the 36 inch range or larger for UAVs that they ship worldwide. Are we all using something that is inferior? I doubt it. Dan.
04-17-2011, 07:15 PM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Hi all,
I just about lost a friends P-47 85" plane due to a Zinger prop (first flight). 50cc with a 22x10. It would not pull
the heavy plane around and it was slow. After pondering what was wrong for a while, I knew it was
the prop. We put a Xoar 22x10 on it and it was a rocket ship. I have no idea why they do not perform
but that showed me. The guys at the club using Zingers, get them some Xoar's and watch out, tell them
to use throttle management.
To the OP, I like Xoar's,, cheap and good looking!
Try this one, the 26x10 will work well.
http://www.xoarintl.com/props/model-airplane/PJI.html
Cheers
Tim
04-17-2011, 10:03 PM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
Dan,
You ever seen one of the 36" and up Zinger props for UAV's? They use them on Pioneer and Shadow so I've had a couple or ten in my hands. All glass laminated FYI and blade shapes far, far removed from what is provided modelers. Then again, when attached to a 36 HP engine you need a different blade design anyway. Stop and think. Is anyone going to put a straight wood prop on something that will assuredly fly through rain showers?
People use Zinger's because they can get them at the local hobby shop. Try stepping up to a better prop someday and learn firsthand instead of relying on people that have never tried anything but the bottom feeders for information development. Because someone flies IMAC is no assurance they know anything. Take one of your Zingers to an aero engineer sometime and get hit with reality.
You ever seen one of the 36" and up Zinger props for UAV's? They use them on Pioneer and Shadow so I've had a couple or ten in my hands. All glass laminated FYI and blade shapes far, far removed from what is provided modelers. Then again, when attached to a 36 HP engine you need a different blade design anyway. Stop and think. Is anyone going to put a straight wood prop on something that will assuredly fly through rain showers?
People use Zinger's because they can get them at the local hobby shop. Try stepping up to a better prop someday and learn firsthand instead of relying on people that have never tried anything but the bottom feeders for information development. Because someone flies IMAC is no assurance they know anything. Take one of your Zingers to an aero engineer sometime and get hit with reality.
04-17-2011, 10:59 PM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
For Dan's sake, I wonder if he is talking about the Zinger Pro Props?? Are they better than
the straight blade ones?? Idono. They look better, I have not tested one of them. I wonder
how they do compaired to a Mejzlik, Bielia, Xoar? Just sayin. (don't you hate that)
Jody have you tested a Pro prop?? say on a 50cc size. or are we talking about paint sticks
even with the Pro series?
just trying to understand how a big prop company got this so wrong.
Tim
the straight blade ones?? Idono. They look better, I have not tested one of them. I wonder
how they do compaired to a Mejzlik, Bielia, Xoar? Just sayin. (don't you hate that)
Jody have you tested a Pro prop?? say on a 50cc size. or are we talking about paint sticks
even with the Pro series?
just trying to understand how a big prop company got this so wrong.
Tim
04-18-2011, 07:06 AM
#21
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
I agree with Tim, had the same issue on my Yellow P 47. A friend gave me a 3W 22-10 and what a difference! I gave the 3W back and I am currently running a Xoar.
I took my Zinger props and cut them up, they made a nice static 4 blade prop for my P 47
I took my Zinger props and cut them up, they made a nice static 4 blade prop for my P 47
04-18-2011, 07:06 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
In the many comparison experiments I did with props the Zinger Pro's performed worse than the square tipped Zinger's. I found it amusing that people were charged more for a prop that looked a little better but performed on a lower scale. To obtain the best performance from a square tipped Zinger required chopping a couple of inches off the length, re-shaping the tip airfoil, thinning the blade chord for the last 15% of the blade length, and re-balancing. Of course they ended up about the loudest prop you could have. For a few bucks more you can simply buy a prop that has all the best attributes and do nothing.
Moving forward with other comparisons, all the Zinger's turned more RPM than any of the other upper end props (including Mejzlik, one of the highest RPM value props out there) but provided less thrust at all RPM values. There were a few other comparison points but until you fly them you don't understand. Low RPM airflow over flight surfaces, flow separation during turns, etc. All of which combine to define propeller performance. It's not just about RPM numbers.
Moving forward with other comparisons, all the Zinger's turned more RPM than any of the other upper end props (including Mejzlik, one of the highest RPM value props out there) but provided less thrust at all RPM values. There were a few other comparison points but until you fly them you don't understand. Low RPM airflow over flight surfaces, flow separation during turns, etc. All of which combine to define propeller performance. It's not just about RPM numbers.
04-18-2011, 07:58 AM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
I use a Bolly 25x11 on my DLE 111 and that combination is in a TBM Zero at 28 1/2 lb's. I fly up here at 7000ft
in Colorad Springs and the plane scoots along pretty good, and it's a quiet prop also. Zingers do not work well
at all up here in the thin air. Xoar and Mezjlik are the preferred props for our altitude on gassers.
in Colorad Springs and the plane scoots along pretty good, and it's a quiet prop also. Zingers do not work well
at all up here in the thin air. Xoar and Mezjlik are the preferred props for our altitude on gassers.
04-18-2011, 02:27 PM
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RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
If you use Zinger props, dial in some extra pitch. They perform quite well then. So take a Zinger 28x12 instead of a 26x10. Pitch measurements in our props are still in the dark ages. Zinger does not use Clark-Y foils, but something more like a circle section with rounded nose. Not bad at all, but this reduces the effective pitch as compared to the Clark-Y foil if measured at the foil bottom tangent. The backward thickness and max camber make the prop operate better at slightly higher angles of attack. This also points into the direction of using more pitch before casting final judgement. Of course the "advantage" of more rpm is lost, and the props start to operate in silent mode, as far as that is possible for wood props.
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
In the many comparison experiments I did with props the Zinger Pro's performed worse than the square tipped Zinger's. I found it amusing that people were charged more for a prop that looked a little better but performed on a lower scale. To obtain the best performance from a square tipped Zinger required chopping a couple of inches off the length, re-shaping the tip airfoil, thinning the blade chord for the last 15% of the blade length, and re-balancing. Of course they ended up about the loudest prop you could have. For a few bucks more you can simply buy a prop that has all the best attributes and do nothing.
Moving forward with other comparisons, all the Zinger's turned more RPM than any of the other upper end props (including Mejzlik, one of the highest RPM value props out there) but provided less thrust at all RPM values. There were a few other comparison points but until you fly them you don't understand. Low RPM airflow over flight surfaces, flow separation during turns, etc. All of which combine to define propeller performance. It's not just about RPM numbers.
In the many comparison experiments I did with props the Zinger Pro's performed worse than the square tipped Zinger's. I found it amusing that people were charged more for a prop that looked a little better but performed on a lower scale. To obtain the best performance from a square tipped Zinger required chopping a couple of inches off the length, re-shaping the tip airfoil, thinning the blade chord for the last 15% of the blade length, and re-balancing. Of course they ended up about the loudest prop you could have. For a few bucks more you can simply buy a prop that has all the best attributes and do nothing.
Moving forward with other comparisons, all the Zinger's turned more RPM than any of the other upper end props (including Mejzlik, one of the highest RPM value props out there) but provided less thrust at all RPM values. There were a few other comparison points but until you fly them you don't understand. Low RPM airflow over flight surfaces, flow separation during turns, etc. All of which combine to define propeller performance. It's not just about RPM numbers.
04-18-2011, 03:00 PM
#25
RE: What 3 blade prop for DLE111??
ORIGINAL: TimT2000
For Dan's sake, I wonder if he is talking about the Zinger Pro Props?? Are they better than
the straight blade ones?? Idono. They look better, I have not tested one of them. I wonder
how they do compaired to a Mejzlik, Bielia, Xoar? Just sayin. (don't you hate that)
Jody have you tested a Pro prop?? say on a 50cc size. or are we talking about paint sticks
even with the Pro series?
just trying to understand how a big prop company got this so wrong.
Tim
For Dan's sake, I wonder if he is talking about the Zinger Pro Props?? Are they better than
the straight blade ones?? Idono. They look better, I have not tested one of them. I wonder
how they do compaired to a Mejzlik, Bielia, Xoar? Just sayin. (don't you hate that)
Jody have you tested a Pro prop?? say on a 50cc size. or are we talking about paint sticks
even with the Pro series?
just trying to understand how a big prop company got this so wrong.
Tim