Razor Hobbies

My Feedback: (50)

Ok back from Mexico those girls just get you going. Plus one of the girls gave the engine a boob rub and it started running pretty good. Guess all it needed was a little lovin....

karl hibbs

My Feedback: (6)

Ya but how does it run?

Razor Hobbies

My Feedback: (50)

So heres the damage.

Here is my report:
Engine Crank bent
Bearings were checked for debris and cleaned no damage or issues
Crank case back plate was damaged when the crank bent breaking off a big piece of the inner lip on the back part of the crank case.
Rear crank case bolt holes had a substantial amount of material broke off from around the bolt holes. All i can figure is when the holes were drilled both holes had imperfections that allowed part of the aluminum to get pushed out around the holes.
The metallic clicking you were hearing was the imperfections coming into contact with the crank then when they broke off was able to make its way into the cylinder head. When the piston smack the large pieces of debris i found it seized the engine.

I will post up the pictures toward the end of the day.

Engine was test ran and passed.

wpmcnamara

My Feedback: (9)

Ok, the guys in the office are looking at me a bit funny since I just about fell out of my chair laughing. Them girls...



-wpm

Razor Hobbies

My Feedback: (50)

Question is how would you run if nice mexican girl just gave you a boob rub. Thats why if you go to Mexico always bring your engine to get the lovin it needs.

LOL

sonny_92

My Feedback: (17)

Thats why they make DA engine!

karl hibbs

My Feedback: (6)

What are you saying the failure is?

Whistling Death

Yeah those DA's don't break. [sm=47_47.gif]

karl hibbs

My Feedback: (6)

Hey Robert, what caused the malfunction.

MIXMASTER

My Feedback: (15)

I was very close to getting a DLE111, Hobby King has them for $498!! Hard to ignore that much savings, but....another club member here had a DLE55extremely happy with that, but...
his DLE111 locked up(a lot like the video here)during inverted harrier. The DLE111 had about 9 months on it, he followed mfg's specs for oil mix & type. No warning at all on this failure, he lost a 35% EG MX-2 and engine. Now he's going DA120 or nothing, I'm sticking with DA too.(you can save now, but will you pay later???)

MIXMASTER

My Feedback: (15)

Oh, forgot my initial thoughts on this incident,, I just have to check the needles for mfg. setting on all my new engines, (before starting)I just don't want to take a chance that someone or somehow a needle is way out of whack. I turn them over a few times too, just to see if it "feels"right & tight.

karolh

We always hope it won't, but if you don't think that something like that can happen to most any brand of engine then you better think again.

Karol

willig10

+1

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

What's a manufacturer setting, and what does it relate to if there is one?

wpmcnamara

My Feedback: (9)

So, it's been a bit, but time for an update. This weekend, I got the engine unboxed an back on the test stand. Below is a clip of the "new" engine running. As an FYI, I had already primed and started it prior to taking this clip. I ran it for about 15 seconds, shut it off then started the camera running. Now, for some notes and thoughts. First, this engine does seem to be a little bit smoother when turned over by hand, but that could just be my "memory" and expectations. I torqued down the prop bolts to 40in-lbs and I must have to say, I would never have tightened them that tight on my own. It was scary tightening them that much and took a good bit more turning than I expected. So, if nothing else, I've learned something there.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqHPAsUzzzo[/youtube]


In the clip above, the needles have not been touched. They were set as it came out of the box. You can see the vibration at idle and low RPMs. It looked and somewhat sounded like perhaps only one cylinder was firing. Around 1:20 in the clip I throttle up in the the lower end of the mid range and it smooths out markedly. You also here the exhaust note become steady and regular. So, my question for TOM, Jody and the rest: Would you diagnose that as rich on the low end? It was certainly shaking more than the prior engine and more than I would expect a properly running twin.

After that clip, I re-adjusted the the needles to "factory" specs. 1 1/4 out on the low and 1 1/2 out on the high. The low end was definitely richer than factory. After adjusting the needles I tried to start it again, without much luck. In my attempts, I managed to have it backfire and bite my hand twice (thank goodness for gloves) and I managed to "flood" the carb. It was dripping wet. After that, I decided I had had enough of flipping a prop in 100deg+ Texas sun and went inside for a beer.

wpm

karolh

The so called 'factory setting' is only there to ensure that the engine will start and run, but it is the operator's responsibility to turn the needles to tune the engine for best running.

Karol

dogshome

The needles WILL need adjusting. There are lots of threads and info of how to do that.

Not wanting to annoy you, but for the benefit of others out there:- learning and starting on a small single cylinder gasser is a lot easier than doing it on a big twin!


Please use a chicken stick, a glove WILL NOT protect you if it really backfires. Might stop cuts, but won't stop nasty bruising or dislocation. Ask my work colleague about the hand, the heavy glove and the rope block. He has a little finger like Dr Evil now!


P.S. 4.5N/M is only 4.5Kg over 100mm. Or ~10lb on a standard long 5 or 6mm allen key. The spark plugs in your car are typically 35N/M (which ain't a lot).

karl hibbs

My Feedback: (6)

wpmcnamara,

are we ever going to find out what the problem was with the first engine. what do you think it was?

wpmcnamara

My Feedback: (9)

No arguments here. The starting place for those adjustments should be the factory settings.

Yeah, starting my little 26cc job was as simple as putting the electric starter to it and firing it up. To be fair, I do hand start it as well. Assuming first start of the day and fuel in the line to the carb, set the choke and slightly open the carb. I generally use the same setting as my high idle. Flip it till it pops, open the choke and it will start in a couple of flips. Works great for my little ones and seemed to work fine for the 111.

To each their own, I suppose. I can't stand chicken sticks. I feel like I have no control and they have a nasty tendency to turn into projectiles and to damage (now very expensive) props.

The actual torque is not a lot, but the amount of tightening necessary to get to that level was eye opening. Being a wood prop, it takes a bit to get the compression in the hub. My comment there was related to another thread floating around on the lack of proper torque specs for props. I can easily see how the average person would under tighten a prop.

wpmcnamara

My Feedback: (9)

I do not believe we will ever know to a certainty sufficient to get folks who have commented in this thread to agree. I know there was no "smoking gun" failure point. I know the crank was bent. I know there was significant amounts of metal in the crank case. I know that there was scoring on the rear of the crank case. Robert's theory is that one of the bolt holes that opens into the crank case may not have been properly/completely deburred during manufacturing. The combination of heat expansion, vibration, etc may have caused this metal to contract the crank counterweights. If part of a burr was knocked loose and wedged itself between the rear crank case and the rear crank counterweight, it certainly could have cause the scoring and jammed the crankshaft, twisting it in the process.

Like I said though, it is just a theory. No broken piece to point to the fault, just the after effects. Some will say it was because it was a DLE, some will say it was because the prop broke, some will say not enough oil, some will say it was because I didn't stand on my head, point south, then jump up and down three times before I started it. As an engineer, it does bug me to not know the definite cause, but in the end, Robert got me taken care of and I am back to having an engine I need to tune up and get ready to go on a airframe.

I suppose that after I get it running a couple of times and partially tuned, I should change the subject of this thread a bit.

wpm

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Best starting procedure I know.

Throttle fully closed. Idle trim ~ 1/2 open. This presumes the carb linkage is of the correct length and the geometry permits full range of idle trim tab motion.

Choke closed, ignition on. Flip until it "pops".

Choke off, ignition still on, not changes to throttle trim position., Flip until it starts. hard to over prime that way. When the engine popped it told you when it had enough prime from the choke.

wyo69cowboy

My Feedback: (2)

^^^^Well said. Too much internet arguing/jockeying goes on in some of these threads: unless you physically examined the item in question, it's all just theory. I got lucky last Saturday with my DLE55/Reactor combo: took off, ran vertical for 30seconds plus, flat spin down, started back up, engine started loading up/not running well at high rpm. Checked fuel lines/tank/needles at field, couldn't get it to run right. Took it home, checked carb screen filter, adjusted needles some more; no dice. Finally swapped ignitions with my other DLE55, and voila, runs fine! Can't blame DLE; first ignition had a close encounter with the dirt a year ago; just finally crapped out. I was ready to run here and start asking questions, but a little investigation found the culprit, fortunately.

dogshome

[8D]


P.S. Good luck with the new engine - please post a vid when you have her installed and flying!

tail strike

My Feedback: (1)

I have a DLE 111 and a DLE 170 have flown both of them over a year now.
That motor sounds perfectly normal.
The reason the prop came off was because the prop bolts wern't tight.
I tork my prop bolts to 70 inch lbs.
And I wouldn't think the engine was hurt local hardware and get some good grade 5 , 5mm bolts a new prop and tork the bolts to at leasr 60 inch lbs
and run it.

Larry S

RCGARY

My Feedback: (35)

Can you tell me what your experience has been with the 170? I am looking to use one on a 40% Yak but I have always used DA.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards