aussiesteve

Why can't a"Gasser newbie" also be an "******** newbie"?

There are an increasing number of High Wing Trainers coming to the market for the 20cc, 26cc and even 50cc engines (I also know of one company thatmakes a 100cc trainer kit)

I know if I was to start learning to fly all over again, I would most likely go to one of those (26cc or 50cc size)and not mess with the glows at all. Many are doing just that in fact. What is the difference between a new flyer learning on a 40 sized glow or a 26cc? the overall size and weight differences are really not that great and as this thread has shown, there are plenty of reliable options in that size range.

Just putting it out there

fly24-7

+1. DLE appears to be committed to being reliable alternative at a lower price point. There's an awful lot of them out there now and as more modelers have positive experiences, confidence in the product will continue to grow.

fly24-7

One just needs to overcome the intimidation factor of a larger airplane... Plenty of good candidate airframes for a 20cc engine.

aussiesteve

Ropomond makes a good point.

Put a 26cc and a 40 sized plane side by side and the physical size difference is not that great. It is even less for the 20cc planes.

I am seeing an increasing propoprtion of "older folk" amongst the newby flyers these days. I guess RC flying isn't generally as exciting to the youn'uns these days when they have so many other choices. The 26cc sized trainers would be easier for us "old folk" to see in the air. (I am not brave enough to define "Old" as I am sure to be on the wrong side of the mark no matter where it is pegged).

Luckily here in Aus, a 50cc trainer or larger is pretty near impossible to get a newbie on as any model over 7kg needs a certification process to be followed and that includes a pilot test which would exclude most trainees. The plane can't be flown unless that certification has taken place.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I think you'll find the explanation to your statement in the amount of time required to become "good" at flying a model aircraft. It cannot be accomplished with 15 to 30 minutes on a game control in front of a television or monitor.

VF84sluggo

My Feedback: (55)

Unfortunately, I've "been there, done that." This is sound advice for a newb...ignore it at your own risk.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

Lots of great advice above. The only issue I would comment on is to be sure the engine you are going to buy is adequate for your needs. A Evolution 26 is a great all around sport engine. It just does not have adequate power to hover a typical Yak 54 as it should. It will hold it in place but not enough power to safely fly out of a problem. You can learn to baby it by flying out of a hover carefully, but why not power that thing right in the first place. Experience from a QQ yak 54 and Evolution 26. A great all around flyer, just not enough power for preceived need at the time. Now I try to buy the new bird and the recommended engine from the same vendor with the agreement they will exchange the engine if found unsatisfactory. Supprising how many people will do that if asked. Great hobby! Enjoy

captinjohn

A "newbie to flying RC airplanes can be a newibe on a gas aircraft. The aircraft should be one that is easy to fly and from 15cc to 35cc powered. Bigger planes set up in a more trainer to fly mode with the right speed on controls is very easy to see and fly. I would dare say if one learned on a bigger gas airplane to fly and then tried to fly a small electric model would possibly crash the smaller model. Capt,n

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Very true.

scooterinvegas

My Feedback: (1)

One word: COST

OK, we don't have insurance on our models. And the thought of a "newbie" and a $1500-$3000 gasser would make me pack up my gear and move to the next RC field down the road.

Newbie's make mistakes, better with a smaller, less expensive glow trainer. Dumb thumb a trainer in to the ground, your out a few hundred bucks. Do the same thing with a 100cc "trainer" and your out a couple weeks pay (couple months for some)

When someones wallet is ready for gas, then a DLE20/30 is perfect.

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Yup, cost. Regarding a total rookie, that's the word I keep coming back to as well. A newbie has no idea if he's going to be able to learn how to fly, and no guarantee he'll maintain interest after the first flight. He is gambling the price of that first plane on a whim. He has a real struggle just to justify the purchase of a .40 size trainer.... both with himself AND his family?

My thought is if the raw newbie offers a budget, it's our job to try to get him in the air on that budget with his best interest in mind. Don't know about others, but if somebody comes to me with a .20 size budget, I'll suggest bigger is easier, but I'm not going to insist he go that way to be eligible for my help....

aussiesteve

As expected, COSTseems to be the factor.
I say that is people imposing their own ideals on others.

Sure there are plenty out there that don't have the budget for a 20 or 30 cc trainer. But many do have it. As ahicks mentioned, it is about personal budget.

Assuming the flying qualities of the airframe are there, In many cases, the studentlearning on a larger airframe isless likely to lose orientation and crash on one of the larger trainers than is likley to happen on a smaller one so the cost is more likely lower in that case. Certainly the elapsed time to learn wil be shorter due to less planes needing to be built for them in the process. Most of us have crashed at some point due to a loss in orientation

Conversely. If the newbies eyesight is perfect and cost really is the decider. perhaps they should go to their local store and buy a $100 foamy to learn on. (This is to agree withthe "Cost" argument but it most likely doesn't fit in the same vision of those who think a 40 size trainer is the best all round choice either.).

There are already low priced 20 - 30cc trainers being offered out of the ARFfactories. It won't take long before they are available in combos at a fairly low amount of $$$.

I am in the publishing industry where we make our money out of selling advertising. I can't remember when I last saw any of my customers advertise a product purely on its merits without mentioning some sort of "Super Deal" or Low Price or "Value Add". It is how we have conditioned society to think. Why else would the Walton family be so high up the worlds rich list? (I am guessing thatit is not because their stores are full of top quality product with large markups).

So back to my question of Why can't a''Gasser newbie'' also be an ''******** newbie''?

Isee the answer is really because it doesn't fit with some peoples values but in fact there is no reason as to why not.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

A gas newbie can come from anywhere, but typically they arrive at gas from small glow planes.

I do not understand the need to get hung up on semantics, nor do I see a need to break every word in every sentence down to the last possible descriptive detail. If a person lacks perception and creativity of thought there are underlying problems that will severely hinder any hobby outside of engineering.

captinjohn

Get in touch with AV8TOR......he can explain about several was to fly bigger planes at not much cost. He knows his stuff.

wyo69cowboy

My Feedback: (2)

A DLE 20 or 30 is CHEAPER than most modern, larger 4 stroke glow engines(.80 on up). The servos and batteries needed for a 30cc size plane are the same you'd use on a .60-.90 glow plane; the airframe probably wouldn't cost much more either, in these days of the Chinese ARF's. I think a 30cc, 90" or so wing trainer would be great; it would fly nicer, slower, and be easier to see than a lot of the .40 size trainers...and you could fly all day on $3 worth of gas!

kerwin50

Now what is wrong with the JBA 15 I know of several flyers that are using this motor in 60 size planes

scooterinvegas

My Feedback: (1)

I dont need to get "in touch" with anyone. I fly gas planes and the cost is NOT an issue. You completely missed my point. I will try in one more time for the "slower" people here....

Nobbies are what? INEXPERIENCED. What do inexperienced people do most of the time when learning to fly RC?? CRASH What would you rather see a Nobbie starting and tuning, 100cc twin or a .46 glow?? Come on people, lets use some common sense.

If you want to be selfish and ONLY think about YOUR money, that's your problem. But when you hit something or someone with your 100cc "trainer", then your selfishness/stupidity has caused someone else HARM.

TimBle

If a newbie turned up at the aifield with a 100cc I'd be packing up soon.

I once had a newbie take off (under supervision) and I was standing way off from the runway. He lost control on take off and his plne veered my way missing my facce by inches. If it was a big petrol powered plane I'd have been in hospital.
With bigger planes comes greater responsibility and the pilot will need to be more vigilant and competant.

Nothing stops anyone learning on a big 50 or 100cc gasser.



Is it a good idea?

PlaneKrazee

My Feedback: (14)

Speaking of cost vs. skill, I was at a large southeastern fly-in event last year and saw guys who had been flying r/c for a whole year sporting 100cc to 150cc composite planes. They could take off, hover, 3d. But they could not land to save their planes. Saw more planes shreaded thru trees on 2500 ft final approachs than I can remember. All of those planes could have been comfortably landed with a 500 ft approach or less. But if you got the money.......who cares.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Learning on larger gassers and expensive aircraft is something that is not new. It's been happening, even in the glow category, for as long as people have been able to purchase planes complete, ready to fly. They may have been used aircraft sold by a previous owner or a nearly ready to fly ARF. Many of the inquiring posts is this forum are clearly written by people thathave never flown anything before. That's proven by the references to items so trivial that even a second time flyer already knows the answer because the experieced people at the flying field would have already observed the errors and helped correct them. A first time flyer would know the answer if they had only read the instructions that were included with a new kit or product. Compounding all that is the experience lost by not assembling your own aircraft. One learns nothing about the assembly process in buy and fly.

Unfortunately the availability of large, ready to fly aircraft, or nearly ready to fly, has led people into the hobby that are missing the intelligence necessary to safely and or effectively participate. Since they can buy the product ready to go they tell themselves that it won't be that hard and off they go. I've had aircraft on the ground hit by such newbie activity and almost been hit myself. I don't like it, don't condone it, and am almost willing to put a bounty on every newbie that starts stupid and becomes more so when they arrive at the flying field.

For those that object to the above because they feel it's the right of someone to do whatever they want, consider my right, and the right of others, to function in an environment of relative safety instead of one fraught with deadly risk. If some fool can kill or seriously injure me or others though gross stupidity and irresponsibility does that not also give me the right to do the same to them in return? The AMA won't be there to save or protect anyone, and if anybody believes a cash insurance settlement resolves anything they are beyond being a fool.

Yes, a newbie could be flying just about anything, including a 200 mph turbine on a bufddy cord. But are some choices wise or responsible, or just done for self gratification?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I once taught a newbie how to fly R/C using an Ultra Stick.

It took forever it seemed to me before I would let him off the buddy box?

But once he soloed, he could fly most any sport plane without a problem.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I'm certain you did that in a responsible manner. You kept him on the box under your tutelage until he demonstrated competance and ability. Under those circumstances a studen CAN learn on anything but unfortunately there are not all that many instructors willing to go that extra mile. We also have not considered the guy that plays on a flight sim for a week or month then runs out and gives it a go alone. I HAVE seen a lot of that of late. The results were easily predictable.

MSS999

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Influence of the dark side I see...deceived by the lie he has been...

(both the quotes from Episode III: Revenge of the Sith)

p.s. no offence intended but I just couldn't resist given your RCU name. Been away so a little late in responding!

wyo69cowboy

My Feedback: (2)

I'm not any more scared of a larger plane than a .46 glow, spinning 12,000 rpm, when either one is piloted by an inexperienced pilot. Either case, you'd better be paying attention to the flight line. It all depends on the level of supervision/skill/common sense being imparted to that "newbie". If they are being coached by a competent club member on a buddy cord vs sim time/winging it on their own, I know which one I'd be watching, regardless of the size of the plane...

TimBle

The bloke had solo'd already so you;d think he can take off right?
I was too busy flying my own plane to be watching him.
My spotter was't too vigilant either....