jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

Just about any mineral oil burns and contributes BTUs to the combustion process. Synthetic oils that use mineral base stock, yes, mineral base stock, will contribute tovarying degreesdepending on their additive cocktail. Ashless oils burn up as well but are not very good oils IMOdueto the reduction or elimination of detergents.Ester based oils will mostlyexit an enginein much the same state as they were whenpoured into the gas, some of the additives mayget consumed though.

This goes way beyond what we need to be concerned about inour little toy engines. Unless your running looong flight times, leeeaan mixtures,and continuous150C temps, all you need is a decent to good quality oil that'salmostalways available within 10-15 minutes of anyone'shouse or flying field.

For our toy engines, more oil = more power, cooler temps, cleaner internals. I liketo see some oil on my plane, I like to see some color to it that shows me it's carrying combustion byproducts out of the engine.

willig10

All:
I use Stihl Ultra mixed at 32:1 on all of my gas engines to include my echo weed eater. I have been using Stihl Ultra in the following engines with no known issues at 32:1

Zenoah G-20ei
Zenoah G-26ei
DLE-55

And I will use the same mixture in my DA-100 unless someone can convince me otherwise. Jody do you see any problem with me staying at 32:1 on the DA-100? It will be going on my Hostetler Cessna 150 and not be flown 3D. What do you think?

Glenn Williams

karolh

Jody,

Is there much of a difference between the Stihl HP and the Stihl HP Ultra,
which is what is available here.

Karol

Link119

My Feedback: (1)

Too much oil is bad though. If you go with too much that an engine cant burn the oil then the unburned oil ends up turning to muck. Most oil does get burned if its in a good ratio but if there is too much it will smoke up quite a bit and it will end up ruining the engine.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

Link, you would need to exceed about 16:1 before you can say it's too much oil, that's double what we're talking about here.

Glenn, 32:1 with Stihl HP Ultra will never hurt anything and your DA will thank you. Also, FWIW, DA no longer recommends breaking in with mineral oil (Penzoil, Lawnmud), they say to use Redline or Stihl from the first tank, will take them a while to update their manuals and website though.

Karol, Stihl HP Ultra is full synthetic and biodegradable. Stihl HP is a mineral/synthetic blend, not fully synthetic but it's very good oil.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

OK, how much is too much? I suggest that ratios in the 30/32:1 range are anything but too much oil .... at least if good quality oils are used. Any excess oil just seems to wash through the engine and acts as a sort of solvent to keep things clean. I once ran oil ratios in the 50/60:1 range and often had carbon issues in the exhaust system, excessive piston staining, rings on the verge of sticking, etc. After listening to TOM, Bugman and Antique, I switched to 32:1 and can't see any reason to go with less oil ... except for maybe the expense of the additional oil. Mufflers are now as clean inside as when new and I only get a few specks of oil on the bottom of the fuselage. Hardly an oil mess! Pistons are clean and rings are nice and free. All in all, the oil seems to be doing what it is supposed to do. What oil do I use? You'll just have to guess but it comes in a nice - bottle and is highly recommended lately.

Now to rattle the cages of the Lawn Boy haters .... and No, I don't use Lawn Boy. But a very good friend of mine used Lawn Boy exclusively for many years in probably dozens of gassers. These ranged from early Quadras to more modern DA products. He always believed in a heavy dose of oil and I'm not even sure he measured it accurately. But he probably ran that Lawn Boy oil at something like 25:1 plus or minus a bit. I still proudly own several of his engines and they are as clean inside as any engine could be and some of them are high time engines. He knew how to tune an engine and the insides showed it. Extremely clean with very little carbon build up and no trace of stuck rings, etc. One problem I did see was excessive carbon in the exhaust systems .... but certainly not in the engines!

While Tired Old Man has certainly never endorsed Lawn Boy oil (quite the opposite actually) he has stated that just about any 2 stroke oil will work in our engines if you use enough of it. My friends experiences prove this statement ... at least for me anyway. Buy a quality oil at a place reasonably close to home, use enough of it and you should be good to go. And thats all I have to say about oil!

dwaynenancy

My Feedback: (62)

Anyone but me using Silkolene at 40:1? Dwayne

Ernie Misner

How many remember Steen-C which was the first synthetic lubricant I knew of? What a revelation it was to tear an engine down and still see the piston dome clean and shiny! My boss at the kart shop was so excited he said we could eat our lunch using the inside of the head for a plate.

Ernie

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

What most RC people don't know about oils and their impacts would fill a lifetime of research. Trust what Jody is telling you. He, and others, are in a position that provides more information and research data than most of you could comprehend.

Stop seeking some new magical lubricant and use what has already been tested through hundreds of thousands of hours of run time under conditions far more severe than any of you will experience.

TimBle

+1

Our engines are not wet sump. They are total loss or pass through systems. The oil needs to do its job anD then get out of dodge.
One myth I'd like to clear up is around synthetics. None, not one of the syntehtic 2-stroke oils are actually 100% PAO or XHVI (Group III+ since is derived from Isomerised Slack wax)) base oil. They are all a mix of the aforementioned and mineral oil.
Oil additives are diluted with solvents. The solvents mix better with mineral derived base stocks than with PAO or XHVI so in order to achieve the best all round performance the oil blender mixes around 25-30% mineral oil into a "synthetic Oil" blend.
Hence even for a 2 stroke with a 2 part mix fuel, the oil will participaite in combustion and seldom completely since the oil burns slower than the surrounding fuel and the engine is set slightly rich.

head down to the motorcycle store, purchase the best 2stroke synthetic oil they carry for the motorcycle engines. Go home , mix fuel , go fly.

OldRookie

My Feedback: (13)

So which one would be best for the DLE/DL engines?

Greg

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Ed, there's 144 ounces in a gallon. If you divide that by 50, you get 2.88 ounces of oil for each gallon. Dan.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

Ummmm, a gallon has 128 ounces.

Your formula is correct for finding the right amount for a given ratio but for a 50:1 mix you would use 2.56 ounces of oil to 1 gallon of gas.

128/50 = 2.56

MetallicaJunkie

crap ive been running 8:1[:@]....



[8D]

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Oops. You got that right. How can I get square feet to inches and gallons to ounces mixed up? Thanks for the correction. At least the error was in the right direction. I was always using a three ounce cup so I was getting a 42:1 mix instead. I'll be checking the conversion charts more closely in the future. Dan.

a1pcfixer

My Feedback: (7)

Dan,

http://www.csgnetwork.com/oilfuelcalc.html

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks, Dan.

willig10

There are tons of oil threads all over RCU. I find it comical that so many are so confused on what ratios to use. It is not rocket science and never has been.

If you purchase a new engine just read the owners manual. If you bought a used engine do some research and find the owners manual online or ask someone who has the engine you now own.

However as I have stated and others have stated. A 32:1 mix is just fine. There are engines that run just fine on 100:1 as well. I know several modelers who run their DA engines at that ratio and they run fine.

Your engine brand may not be able to sustain a 100:1 ratio. My engine (DA-100) can run that ratio. I choose not to go that way as I want some additional lubrication and the benefits the extra oil will provide within the internals of the engine.

A little extra lubrication does not hurt anything and if your engine is tuned properly you should not see carbon build up unless it is an inferior quality oil.

Listen to your engine in flight, It will tell you what it needs if you are attentive enough to know what is going on. The gasoline powered engine can handle 4 stroking but the engine is not happy there. Lean the needles to get the engine on step. If you run too lean it will tell you that it is too lean by either sagging or dying.

Not trying to turn this into a tuning thread but I am just saying that if your engine is tuned properly and you are using a good mix proportional to your engines needs, carbon buildup should bevery minimal ornot occur at all.

Hope this helps some of you who are asking. By the way there are numerous opnions on oils and it is like the proverbial Ford vs Chevrolet debate. That said I have ran in the past the following 2 stroke oils and never had issues except having to tune after switching brands. However I prefer Stihl oil over them all as I (my opinion) is Stihl is just good oil.

Stihl
Amzoil
Red line
Pennzoil
Lawn Boy
Poulan
Echo
Auto Zone brand
Homelite
And some others I cannot remember (no name brands)

I have spent good money on expensive oil and went cheap using parts store 2 stroke oil that was on sale. They all work for my style of flying. I only have one engine that is uncowled and my other planes are enclosed and I have not had over heating issues with any of the above mentioned oils. I run 32:1 exclusively and have never tried anything else. I am sure I could go to a higher ration but why? I go by the old saying of "if it aint broke don't fix it".

These are my opinions are yours may vary. I am not disagreeing with anyone who uses less oil or more oil in their engines. However I can attest to you this in all sincerity. If you are in doubt about your mix. You will not do any harm using 32:1 mix. PERIOD.

Have a great day.
Glenn Williams

a1pcfixer

My Feedback: (7)

Glen,

You tell 'em!

However......ya might want to watch out for that dark cloud..........

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

This must be the most civil and polite oil thread I have ever read! Dang it guys, we need to step it up a notch! [sm=punching.gif]

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

I'm changing oils, gonna use rendered Ratfish liver oil at 143:1, makes exactly 1 gallon. Makes my exhaust smell like atuna fish sandwich.

MTK

Or BIODIESEL as fuel....how much oil would you use with that oil? I kinda like french fries meself

Seriously, one thing I see time and again in many posts is use of weight measures to reflect volume measurements. A 50:1, 32:1 etc. gas- oil mix is by volume. For 50:1 one needs 2.56 fluid ozs (often referred to "ounces" which is a weight measure and hence wrong).

One should not weigh out 2.56 ounces oil per gallon gas, Rather, should measure out 2.56 fl ozs, a volume measure, to use with that gallon, also a volume measure. N'est-ce pas?

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

Of course I comprende, I was beingcheeky in a mockery of post #37.

All in good fun Dan.

Whistling Death

If you can get the HP Ultra use that. The fact that this oil is used by gentlemen that actually work on RC engines for a living is well enough for me.

TimBle

hmmmm USGallon or Imperial Gallon....

128ounces to a USgallon but 155 ounces to an imperial gallon...