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DLE 111 tuning question.

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Old 09-27-2011, 07:39 PM
  #1
JUGFLIER
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Default DLE 111 tuning question.

I have a DLE 111 on a carden and it has about 1 1/2 gallons of gas thru it. Today, i noticed that it is starting to really turn some RPM's. I noticed that when I start it up, when it's cold, it won't take throttle until it warms up about 30 seconds or more. I have a DA 100 that does the same thing. The DA is a well run in engine.

My question, is this normal for these engines or am I a tick lean? If lean, is that top or bottom? On the DLE, is you let it idle a minute or two, it does develope a mid range "burble" that is usual for a slightly rich idle.
Thanks for any tips.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:44 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

You are lean on the low speed for sure

if it sags in flight, you are lean on the high speed too.

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Old 09-27-2011, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

no sagging on the top yet, it's really starting to spin up though. The engine is a beast.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:06 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Sounds like the low is about right. A Well tuned engine will behave a little lean until it warms up.

The burble may be coming from a rich high end. Many people (possibly most - especially those with low hours of experience on gassers) tend to have their engines tuned too rich.

What are your spark plugs telling you?
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Steve is correct, a well tuned DLE111 low needle will require a warm up before it will accept throttle, usually about 30 - 60 seconds. A slight bit of midrange burbal is normal especially with stock exhaust and a light loading prop. (able to turn 6500 RPM and up)
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:34 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Thanks guys for all your input.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

If it starts becoming hard to start cold, give that LSN a 1/16th rich tweak as you're right in the sweet spot now.
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

I have a problem with my DLE-111. I have about 7 gallons though it. Now it seems to gain RPM after flight. It is does have a bit of burbal at mid range RPM'S. It has always stayed running. Any ideas or help?
   thanks Jmac 
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Not sure what you mean by "gains rpm after flight". But what I'm guessing you're meaning is that once you've been flying around (hot engine) the engine doesn't want to come back down to a low idle for a few seconds? If that's the case it's simply caused by the LSN being set too lean. Richen it up 1/8th of a turn and it should come back to idle when hot properly during flight.

It may also be caused by an airleak somewhere in your engine, so double check that all bolts are good and tight, no gaskets are cracked and no slop in the front crank bearings. Even if it's a small airleak, richening the LSN will fix (or should I say "mask") the issue.

Egan
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Yes Egan, It doesn't return to the same idle after it is warmed up. I haven't had to make any changes to the tuning so far. I guess this normal after a few gallons of fuel?
   Jmac
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Yep, just richen the LSN a bit and you'll be golden. Still a good idea to do a once-over to make sure there's no visible air leaks or issues.
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Old 09-30-2011, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

As an engine breaks in it will change tune, it will need to be retuned probably 3 or 4 times during the whole break in process. Be sure to get the engine good and warmed up before you start any tuning process. Do not start by just tweaking a needle and seeing what it does. For the best results, perform a complete tuning process from start to finish, otherwise all you're doing is guessing.

If you started out flying it with the factory recommended settings, rest assured it's grossly out of optimal tune.
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Old 09-30-2011, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeremymac

Yes Egan, It doesn't return to the same idle after it is warmed up. I haven't had to make any changes to the tuning so far. I guess this normal after a few gallons of fuel?
Jmac
I have the exact same problem with my DLE-111 with about 7 gallons of fuel through it. The idle climbs a lot after a few minutes of flying and it makes spin entries and landings a real pain. I set the idle trim with a tach at 1500 rpm before each flight. If I richen the low end needle, it makes the midrange way too fat. I took apart the carb, removed the welch plug, cleaned all sealant and jet passages with carb cleaner and installed a new welch plug. The engine runs exactly the same as before. I don't see any obvious signs of an air leak - no fuel or oil at any seams, maybe it's an air leak through the front bearing seal, although I don't see any wetness. The engine runs great from idle to full power and has never quit. I thought that perhaps the carb was getting too hot and boiling the fuel, so I replaced the aluminum carb mount manifold with a plastic one from a 3W-106. The engine ran exactly the same as before. One thing I did notice is that the EMAS carb has 4 idle ports, and my 3W-106 Tillotson HS carb has only 3 idle ports. My next experiement is to put on the Tillotson carb. My theory is that the extra idle ports on the EMAS carb cause a lean idle and rich midrange bias. At low throttle opening, the extra idle ports act as air bleeds, so this leans the idle. At mid throttle, all four idle ports provide fuel. Anyway, that's my theory and I''ll test it out to find if this fixes the idle speed-up issue.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Just had a great day at the field, and put a gallon and a half of fuel through the DLE-111 with the Tillotson carb. It totally fixed the problem with the idle. I tached the engine at 1200 rpm before and after the flight and didn't touch the throttle trim all day. The engine ran great, starts much easier, no dead sticks, and has excellent power - 6900 rpm with a Biela 27x10 using stock mufflers with one inch cut off the down tubes. The strange thing is that the engine now sounds like my 3W-106.

If you don't have a spare Tillotson carb, you might try modifying the EMAS carb. Get a carb rebuild kit for a Tillotson HS carb - all the parts fit the EMAS. Remove the welch plug and clean the idle reservoir with brake cleaner. Mix up some epoxy, and fill in the idle discharge port that is closest to the venturi nozzle. Hopefully the gasoline won't eat the epoxy. Install a new welch plug from the rebuild kit and give it a try. You can always drill out the epoxy if you have to.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:01 AM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

You are lean on the low speed for sure

if it sags in flight, you are lean on the high speed too.

You nailed it. I went out yesterday with fresh mixed gas at 40:1. On the first flight the engine began to sag a bit. On second flight it died and I had to deadstick. It is lean on top and a tick lean on bottom.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeremymac

Yes Egan, It doesn't return to the same idle after it is warmed up. I haven't had to make any changes to the tuning so far. I guess this normal after a few gallons of fuel?
Jmac
This generally means you are trying to establish an idle setting too soon. The engine has not warmed up enough to hold a reliable needle or idle setting. Wait until the engine warms up to set the idle. The idle rpm will generally be the same at time of landing as it was at take off that way, providing the engine was tuned reasonably well to begin with. If you tuned the engine when it was cold, it is not reasonably well tuned.
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Old 10-09-2011, 03:15 PM
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Default RE: DLE 111 tuning question.

Quote:
I have the exact same problem with my DLE-111 with about 7 gallons of fuel through it. The idle climbs a lot after a few minutes of flying and it makes spin entries and landings a real pain.
Same EXACT problem here....The cure for mine was to run a line from the carb. metering diaphragm (nipple already installed) back into the fuze....Acts like a COMPLETELY different engine! .....Before, when I would throttle/back for a landing, it would lean/out and idle at a very high RPM....Now the RPM's follow the throttle stick perfectly like it should....I'm a very happy/camper! ....
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:57 PM
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Have two DLE 111s. One is a spare with probably about 10 hrs time on it. Last month the installed one backfired. It blew the inlet out of the canister muffler and blew out the reeds. Replace reeds and soldiered canister muffle back together. Seemed to work fine. Then this week one cylinder was dropping off on idle but would recover after throttling up. Flew it. Ended up coming in deadstick cause all the prop bolts sheered off. They were tight before the flight. The only thing holding the prop on was the spinner.

Replaced the spinner, prop and prop bolts. Started it up and the one cylinder keeps dropping off like it is not firing. Replace CDI with spare = no change. Replace both plugs several times = no change. Swapped carbs = No change. Rebuilt carbs = no change. Got a fresh batch of fuel = no change. I am beginning to wonder if a canister(s) is bad even though I can blow thru both the just fine. (reason for first back fire was an intermittent battery, I thought!

I checked the reeds on both and they are still good. Should be they were both new. No mater which part I swap out, both engines run the same dropping that one cylinder. I am beginning to think I have two bad CDIs or two bad carbs. But, I have cleaned the carbs several times.

Tomorrow I am going to install the stock mufflers and take the cans out of consideration. I have a lot of experience with gassers. But this one has got me pulling out my hair. If the cans are not it, then I am thinking it has to be two bad CDIs.

I have a RCAcell CDI tester which I picked up at Weak Signals this past year. It says on the package that there are complete instructions on the inside. Ya Right! Got to look around on the net for some instructions, I guess.

What a PITA. One step from ordering a couple DAs and be done with this mess and start over with a couple DA messes. Lost total confidence in these two buggers.

Last edited by Len Todd; 06-27-2016 at 07:00 PM.
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