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Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

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Old 10-04-2011, 02:14 AM
  #1
Mr67Stang
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Default Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

I am trying to decide which engine to buy for my Aeroworks 50cc Ultimate Bipe. Reliability, performance and weight are my biggest concerns. If you have any real numbers (not advertisement copy and paste) I would apreciate a no BS look at these engines.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:11 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

From another forum:

DA60 Slimline inverted pitts muffler
Xoar eagle nose 23X10
2.5 gallons through it
Sthil HP ultra 32:1
6500 rpm

DA60 on an MTW RE-2, MTW 25mm drop flex header, Vess 24B, Redline with 100 octane sunoco non-oxygenated 40:1 still breaking in, 7100rpm static. I've been very impressed with this engine!
__________________

DA-60 on tuned pipe: 6910rpm @ 35lbs 6oz thrust on Vess wood 24x10!!! This is bar none the fastest and most overpowered plane I've ever seen in my life. It makes our 100cc planes look like childs play, lol. Flying an 18.5lb Aeroworks Extra 300 with so much authority it's literally laughable. This plane does well over 220km/h flat and level according to our radar runs... It rips this 24" prop with ease.

DLE55
I finally managed to get out and do some new prop comparisons on my DLE-55 to which I put on a new V2 head, and new top-end. It's had about 8 tanks through it, and last night I ran some performance numbers. Each prop was tuned individually for max RPM, and all thrust & RPM readings were taken 3 times to ensure accuracy. Every test was executed twice all around as well to ensure no variability. All readings were taken with engine at FULL HOT running temp w/ average peak RPM readings (no brief RPM peak numbers were used).

+15*C, 3500ft ASL, 50% RH, 0kph wind, 87oct gas, 40:1 Stihl Ultra:

Hawk wood 22x8: 7110rpm @ 27lbs 12oz thrust
Xoar sword 22x10: 6390rpm @ 26lbs 4oz thrust
Xoar CF 23x8: 6870rpm @ 27lbs 12oz thrust
Falcon wood 23x8: 6450rpm @ 26lbs 14oz thrust

The most impressive prop in the pack when it comes to static thrust & speed/rpm for it's smaller 22" size is the Hawk 22x8. Really makes me wish I had a Hawk 23x8!

In flight I like all of them, except the Falcon. It's WAY too slow moving due to low rpm for 8" of pitch in comparison to the other props. Overall my favorite props I've tried including others from friends I don't own (and werent in yesterday's tests) are: Mejzlik 23x8 & my Xoar CF 23x8 as above. I also liked the Vess 23A if you were solely into 3D down low, but when mixing sport & IMAC flying like I do, it's just too slow. Thrust on that vess felt similar to the Mej & Xoar CF 23x8 as well.

It's interesting to see that my same 22x10 Xoar sword is turning 400rpm less on this new head/top end than the old head was. May just need some more break-in time though. Odd, as the Hawk and others are turning nearly identical RPM they used to. When testing I didn't believe it, so I retuned and ran that test 2 additional times, yep it's correct and max tune RPM. Could also be variation and drying/warping of the wood props over time.

DLE55 on 64:1 Sabre/87 octane 10% ethenol MAS 22x8 standard muffler - 6600 rpm Only 2 gal through it.

DLE-55
TBM 22X8
Homelite Synthetic oil, regular gas, 32:1
400 ft above MSL
Idles at 1200 rpm
Full Throttle 7200 rpm
No static thrust measurement available



DL 50
Engine: DL-50 with Bowman piston ring
muffler: J'Tec wrap around muffler
gas: Aspen 2 that has 2% synthetic oil (don't know what oil Aspen uses)
Prop: PT-Model 23x8
alt: about 10meters above sea level
temp: 23 C

RPM: 7080
idle rpm: 1250 at idle down and 1800 at idleup

RCEXL inline tach used.


Today my DL was stronger than ever. All same as above but temp. ~20C and RPM was 7170

DA50
DA-50
Mezlik 23x10
MTW 11 inch header
MTW RE2 pipe
50:1 Amsoil
Sea level
12 degrees Celsius
1400!!! rpm idle
6930 WOT

DA 50-R
Ignition at 6.0 Volts
Es Composites Tuned pipe
MTW 25mm Drop header
Mezjlik 23x8 CF prop
Redline Racing oil 40:1 93 octane pump gas (broken in on 4 gallons 32:1 lawnboy)
465 feet above sea level

RPM 7000 all warmed up
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:44 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqF1vPWFU50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX45nSOmIE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wihYPXcdAq4
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

if money is not an issue and you dont mind spending DA60

best bang for the buk DLE 55 hands down

If you can find a steal on a DL50 they are very good motors too

try to keep it under 17-18#s and any motor you listed will rock
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Remember now, he did say AW, and their stuff (other than their profiles) often comes out heavy!
Their Ultimate may well come out as 18+ lbs AUW-RTF.

***EDIT***
Make that 18.5 - 19.5 lbs;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10015227

For 3D get the DA-60.

For general flying and a little 3D, the DLE55 is great.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:37 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Quote:
DLE55
I finally managed to get out and do some new prop comparisons on my DLE-55 to which I put on a new V2 head, and new top-end. It's had about 8 tanks through it, and last night I ran some performance numbers. Each prop was tuned individually for max RPM, and all thrust & RPM readings were taken 3 times to ensure accuracy. Every test was executed twice all around as well to ensure no variability. All readings were taken with engine at FULL HOT running temp w/ average peak RPM readings (no brief RPM peak numbers were used).

+15*C, 3500ft ASL, 50% RH, 0kph wind, 87oct gas, 40:1 Stihl Ultra:

Hawk wood 22x8: 7110rpm @ 27lbs 12oz thrust
Xoar sword 22x10: 6390rpm @ 26lbs 4oz thrust
Xoar CF 23x8: 6870rpm @ 27lbs 12oz thrust
Falcon wood 23x8: 6450rpm @ 26lbs 14oz thrust

The most impressive prop in the pack when it comes to static thrust & speed/rpm for it's smaller 22" size is the Hawk 22x8. Really makes me wish I had a Hawk 23x8!

In flight I like all of them, except the Falcon. It's WAY too slow moving due to low rpm for 8" of pitch in comparison to the other props. Overall my favorite props I've tried including others from friends I don't own (and werent in yesterday's tests) are: Mejzlik 23x8 & my Xoar CF 23x8 as above. I also liked the Vess 23A if you were solely into 3D down low, but when mixing sport & IMAC flying like I do, it's just too slow. Thrust on that vess felt similar to the Mej & Xoar CF 23x8 as well.

It's interesting to see that my same 22x10 Xoar sword is turning 400rpm less on this new head/top end than the old head was. May just need some more break-in time though. Odd, as the Hawk and others are turning nearly identical RPM they used to. When testing I didn't believe it, so I retuned and ran that test 2 additional times, yep it's correct and max tune RPM. Could also be variation and drying/warping of the wood props over time.
Hey that's my review/RPM #'s of my DLE-55 Soarrich! haha I've retested it's numbers after a few more gallons through it, and it's even better now. I got that 22x8 Xoar prop to turn 7440 at one point! lol. I still like the Xoar 23x8 CF prop the best, and it's turning 6950rpm almost every time out (hot).

Either engine will be good, but they do go up in increments of power. If it were me I'd buy another DLE-55 before a DA-50, even if they were the same price. That DA-60 isn't all that special after seeing it fly on regular exhaust (maybe 100-200 rpm than the 55 at max on the same prop), however, if once you throw a tuned pipe on the DA-60 that thing is INSANE. My buddie's turns a 24x10 @ 6750 rpm on tuned pipe!!!!! His 30% Aeroworks Extra 300 is the most overpowered 30% plane i"ve ever seen in my life.

That said, if you're not going tuned pipes, just go with the 55 as the difference is negligable in power on stock exhaust. I assume that you wouldn't be paying the $$$ for a tuned pipe if buying a 55 anyhow based on people's spending habbits in the past. (Ie. if they pay for the DA up front, they dont mind paying more $$$ for the tuned pipe combo either; vs the guys who buy DLE like me, we're bang per buck people who generally wont go out and buy tuned pipes defeating the purpose of just buying the more powerful engine from the get-go). I can't comment on how the 55 runs on tuned pipes, as maybe it's nearly as impressive as the 60 which is what I'm thinking it would be.

A few guys have the DA-50 as well, but it's pretty tame compared to the other two. I wouldn't even consider it unless it's a smoking used deal, but that's just me.

Remember that tuned pipes can wreak havok on transition until you get the pipe length setup just perfectly for your prop, load, airframe and setup. If you're a big 3D guy, this is worth considering. For most sport/IMAC pilots however, transition isn't as critical generally.

Egan
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

soarrich
that is some nice info - thanks for that..... i know it was not asked about, but just as a comparison i have a Mintor55 on Mintor cannister swinging 23x8 jxf/xoar at 6900rpm. 3300ft asl and running 35:1 putoline mx5. it now has just on 9 hrs run time and going really well.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

How bout a 3W-55Xi to put in the mix..

CS version with ES 55G composite pipe with 12" header.. 93 Super with 32:1 Stihl Ultra. Engine has approx. 4 gallons through it now.

Props to date:

Menz S 24X8 7350 rpm
Xoar 23X10 Eagle nose 7550rpm
Xoar 23X8 laminate 7700rpm

I really like the Laminate 23X8 best.. Instant throttle response and pullout from Hover with the 18lbs Bulldog is "Authoritive"..

Rick
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Aeroworks Extra 260 50cc with either a DLE 55 or DA50R is insane from hover. Mine weighs in at 18.5 lbs and I've run both engines on it. I honestly can not tell the difference in pull out but the DLE turns a XOAR 23X8 Sword 100 rpm's more than the DA. In real life NO DIFFERENCE that I can see. Oh yeah, the DLE makes just a touch over 30 lbs of thrust at 65' above sea level on an 85 deg day in Houston, TX with the XOAR. Tested using 93 octane Chevron gas mixed at 32:1 with Redline Two Stroke Racing.
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Old 10-04-2011, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

QUESTION
What engine is the smoothest at various RPM levels? DLE 55, Desert Aircraft (DA) or the 60cc DA...as mentioned.Thanks, Capt,n
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

I can't personally feel any difference between the DLE55, DL50 and DA50R vibration wise. Since I don't own the DA60 I can't speak for that one.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jezmo

I can't personally feel any difference between the DLE55, DL50 and DA50R vibration wise. Since I don't own the DA60 I can't speak for that one.
I believe my DLE 55 is quite a bit smoother (both in vibration levels and running qualities) than my DA-50. Both use the same Slimline Pitts wrap around muffler. The power increase of the DLE is quite noticable over the DA but sorry, no tach comparison. Sorry, no DA-60 info here. This is not a DA bash by any means as I ran the DA-50 for years before switching to the DLE and was quite pleased with the DA.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

i think vids from an engine depends on many factors.......
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: krayzc-RCU

i think vids from an engine depends on many factors.......
Agree
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

I apreciate the info guys. And thanks for the YouTube links Krazy! You don't have any used DA-60's for sale do you? I see your reletively close in NC... Honestly, I'm in no hurry but if a deal came around I would go ahead and stock the engine. Maybe, Todd Syssa will jump into the 50 - 60cc market
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

ur welcome Mr67Stang
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Just putting a tach on them does not tell the whole story. I have a Python with a DA60 on it that did have a DLE55. My friend also has a Python that weighs a bit less than mine with a DLE55 on it. When we fly together you can see how the DA60 has a massive amount of power in the air over the 55. There is no comparison.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

The 3w 55 turning over 7k is under propped. Lot's of thrust being lost to prop innefficiency. No 3w is a high rpm engine intentionally.

Any true 50cc bipe will fly quite well at 20 lbs with a decent 50cc engine. Far too much emphasis is put on ultra low weights with big bipes. Yea, it makes for nice foamie flying but you lose out on tumbling big time when weights are real low. The aerodynamics of a well set up biplane make for a completely different type of stall. Neither wing will stall at the same time if the decalage is attended to properly. The affects of wing loading with the two narrow chord wings is significantly impacted as well, permitting the effective carriage of greater weight than a mono wing can handle effectively. In certain flight attitudes the two wings act as one.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

There is no replacement for displacement. I'd go for either DA 60 or DLE 55, unless you already have DA 50.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:37 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Super08

Just putting a tach on them does not tell the whole story. I have a Python with a DA60 on it that did have a DLE55. My friend also has a Python that weighs a bit less than mine with a DLE55 on it. When we fly together you can see how the DA60 has a massive amount of power in the air over the 55. There is no comparison.
Perfect! Even though I did not word it this way, this is what I wanted to know... What props are you guys using on these Pythons?
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Two engines missing from this comparison spread. BME 58 and MVVS 58. Don't stack the MVVS up against the original 3, especially if the MVVS designed pipes are used on the MVVS. The BME will easily hold it's own with the DA. Other factors come into play like engine weight that impact all of them to some extent.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

I had a 23x10 on my 60 and if I recall he had a 23x8 on the 55.
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Old 10-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

I drive 2003 model toyota camry.  Will any of the aeroworks 50cc extra fit in the passenger seat for me?  Has anyone try this before?  Please advise.  I have many 90size glow planes, but now thinking of moving up to gas planes.  Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:05 PM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?

Across the back seat? Not a one. If the back seat will fold down and allow free passage from the trunk, a few.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:36 AM
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Default RE: Anyone compare DA-50 / DLE-55 / DA-60?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Yado

I drive 2003 model toyota camry. Will any of the aeroworks 50cc extra fit in the passenger seat for me? Has anyone try this before? Please advise. I have many 90size glow planes, but now thinking of moving up to gas planes. Thanks.
As said, if your back seat will fold down flatand you can have clear unobstructed access to the trunk you could get an AW 50cc Extra in that car but you would have to remove the landing gear to get it short enough. I have the AW 50cc Extra 260. There is no way I would even try. It is hangar rash waiting to happen. Concider a small enclosed trailer or an SUV.
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