WRK

My Feedback: (2)

What do you experts think are the most likely causes of operator induced engine damage?

Poor cooling?

Carb. set too lean?

Wrong fuel oil ratio?

Or ..........?

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

All above, and loose parts ingested...

aussiesteve

All of all of the above and Dumb Thumbs and people who should be legally banned from touching any sort of tools - screwdrivers, pliers, spanners, allen keys etc.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Plus 1

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

all that stated above PLUS lack of knowledge of what they may be working on.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I try to stay away from engines that have been owner modified when I don't like what they did unless I can redo it.

You often see the darnedest repairs as result of a crash.

captinjohn

I am thinking at times people post questions just to see what the experts say and just set back and see where it goes. I am not saying this post was...but I have a feeling it happens from time to time. That is there way of getting there jollies off!!! ....................................

aussiesteve

I am sure you are right - a little like the guy who asks about just about every cheap engine on the market and how to make it go faster (It's really easy to do - just buy the right engine in the first place).

I often look at a thread on another site that is titled something like "The thread about anything". It has well over 100 pages so far and covers a big range of subjects. Makes for a lot of fun reading it all.

Trouble is - ya never know who is serious or not. I remember seeing a thread once (not on this site) where the guy asked about how stupid Gas engine users are. After a few pages of posts in a day or so, he even admitted he was doing it as a wind up then the people who bit got all defensive about it all. It made pretty funny reading.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Had a conversation with a domestic engine manufacturer some time back where he was describing an engine and customer problem to me. Seems he sent this engine out new and shortly thereafter received calls about how the engine would not perform correctly. So the engine came back and he checked it out. A little needle turning and all was well so he sent it back.

A week later the calls about poor performance start again, so it gets sent back. Once again a little needle turning and all is as it should be, so back to the user. This goes on two more times. Turns out the problem resided with the "gas engine expert" at the field the engine was being used at. The "expert" was, surprise, a gas engine newbie. Every time he put a screw driver to the carb things turned to crap. Owner of engine company finally sent note back with the engine prohibiting the "expert" from getting within a given distance of the engine with a screw driver in his hand.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

All the above then add,

Working on them, fixing themthemselves, and as T.O.M. describes, letting their local clubengine guruwork on them.

clivemc

the operator.

Whistling Death

The operator is usually the cause.

WRK

My Feedback: (2)

My purpose in posing the question was to find out the relative frequency of of damage caused by these items, I did not think that parts going through engines or very poor mechanical ability was as prominent as what seems to be the case, at my field it seems like it is not unusual to find fliers that don't really know the difference between a really good running engine and one that needs carb. adjustment or has some other problem that needs attention.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

What you observe is pretty common, especially among those using the smaller gas engines, say those less than 40cc. Many of those users are gas newbies that have yet to learn how to tune a gas engine. They are easy to spot because they are still treating their gas engines like a glow engine and attempting to tune them for every flight instead of getting the state of tune correct or close to correct and leaving it alone for the next couple years. You see them driving themselves nuts looking for boogieman with TDC "free play" and taching the engine to establish a "perfect" idle RPM, and extracting the last possible RPM from the engines at the high end. Often they have E-Z connectors securing the metal throttle linkage rod at both ends.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

40cc and under? In my experience, many users don't act on good professional advice and their self education doesn't start to sink in until they're destroying$700 - $800and above engines. Most users of 120cc engines and above do pretty well and have either gained the experience necessary to be successful or they let the professionals handle maintenance and repair. I wouldraise that barto 100cc and below.

bgw45

My Feedback: (1)

Sometimes you gotta pay to play. Some learn from their errors. Some don't. First gasser I flew/crashed went back to Jody for, what I now consider, a really simple thing. There is no free lunch..... If us newbies want to learn..... it's gonna cost us.

dbacque

My Feedback: (3)

You left one off the list. Impact.

Dave

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Figured that one was a given. Only question was the severity of the damage. It ain't really dead until the case is broke, the crank is broke, and the cylinder was snapped off the mounting ring.

Mr67Stang

Wow, determining a persons knowledge of engines by the engine size they use. This seems like some boys locker room stuff here. Well my largest gas engine I currently own is ~5700cc That would be a Ford 351 Windsor in a 67 Mustang. So unless you guys have big blocks I guess I'm the expert? That line of thinking bothered me. I know many people who chose to stay in the 50cc class and under due to cost and storage concerns. It's like saying, "If you don't have a $3000 plane, your just a newbie."

C'mon The small engines opened gas to many people because now we don't have to buy a $1500 ARF to have a suitable airframe for a gas engine. Due to that there will be many new people and sure the vast majority will be small engine users but that does not preclude Stevie Silverspoon with his daddy's credit card from getting his 150cc Pitts Python and not having a clue.

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

You're taking my post completely out of context. Re-read my post, I didn't make any judgements, I was relaying my experience as a service professional in the business of repairing the very engines being discussed in this forum, and dealing directly with a fairly large cross section of end users.

Sorry if the facts bother you.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Does your car have wings and operated via an RC radio link? You going waaaay out of context. We could step that up to an Wright Cyclone radial next but it would be just as irelevant as the Windsor example.

Facts are what they are. Most of the mini RC gas engine users here are relatively new to RC gassers. Perhaps they have a lot of glow time, perhaps not, but most of them are new to the gas side of things. Their questions amplify that. This particular forum is pretty much dedicated to those relatively new to the propulsion type. When perusing other RC sites you'll find some of them deal very little with the smaller sizes and only deal with 50-100CC and up, up, up. In those forums the users are typically considerably more sophisticated with their models and knowledge levels of gas engine operation.

That was not a slight or dig, just the way it is. The advent/flood of what I call mini gas engines has indeed opened up gas engine use to those that either could not afford, or chose not to participate in, larger models. In many cases that has caused more trouble than it has been worth in shoe horning a few engines into airframes that were not ever intended for a larger framed engine, but that is completely a choice for the user to make. On a more personal level I don't much care for the mini gassers because they can be pretty finicky, and only a few of them are worth purchasing. But that's just me. Others see things differently.

Mr67Stang

What do wings or radio signals have to do with operating, tunning and performing maintanence on an engine? I also run a small engine repair business. You know lawn mowers, weed eaters and chainsaws. I supose those engines have nothing in common either as the equipment has no wings or "RC radio link".
This I completely agree with. I had to learn that lesson myself about two years ago[&o]

EDIT//: I will grant you there are some distinctive differences that can only be found in the airplane model engine venue. I was so offended at first I went to the sticky at the top of this forum to see what I possibly did not know... Guess what... There I was reading a very well writen expose on throttle linkage set up. I think it clarified 75% of the issues I have just been living with in my own engines and it has absolutely no transention from all of my "previous" experience. What is worse.. The well articulated manuscript was writen by none other than you... Tired Old Man. In that I retract the above statement in green.

TimBle

IMEusers of large gassers often had someone else build the plane and maintain it thereore hey know very little about the actual operation of the engine. They follow the manual, set up the engine and then don't bother till the plane is crashed or sold a year later and then the cycle starts again. IME the users of the smaller gassers are more expereinced because they don;t have the budget to leave their planes with a hobby shop owner to maintain the aircraft on their behalf.
I oly have experience currentlhy with <50cc gassers INANRCAPPLICATION but have tinkered with 100cc Rotax, Yamaha and 125cc Honda and Yamaha and 250cc Biland (4 stroke) in karts. does that make me a newbie?
Wen i first entered in RC gassers I was lead down the garden path by the club "expert" (thankfully I am no longer at that club). Advise you lot gave me connected my kart experience to RC and its been plain sailing since then and I'm grateful for that.
However keep the assumptions humble and you will continue to earn respect. Being a "teacher" is a thankless task and often impatience creeps in through frustration. When it does remember that you volunteered for the role..
respect

closetguy

My Feedback: (13)

i think what the guy's are trying to say is that when a person is flying a 100cc plane, he has been through or should have been through all of the learning stages of a gasser.
but there are those guy's that get someone in a club to do all of there engine tunning and are flying 150cc planes,that have no idea of what makes that engine run.

TimBle

I know of many who go from .40 trainers to 100cc gassers because they fly easier. hy don;t bother to learn about the hardware either. Sometimes see them flipping for hours... hen blame the poor chinese engine.

What people should have done and what they have done to get to where they are is often very different. Lots love shortcuts