Gas Engines Questions or comments about gas engines can be posted here

DLE 30 dies when upright

Reply
Old 10-22-2011, 09:40 AM
  #26
jedijody
 
jedijody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,812
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

I've seen it many times when not done correctly.
jedijody is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 09:55 AM
  #27
Andika
 
Andika's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: N/A, CA
Posts: 219
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

it's now out of stock at VVRC http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/d...as-engine.html
should they (VVRC) drop the price to $275 ? http://www.flybestrc.com/index.php/engines/dle30.html
Andika is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:08 AM
  #28
Super08
 
Super08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Posts: 4,086
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

I would be careful about spending 2 cents there. If you go to the tabs on the bottom ie: about us, shipping and returns etc. they give no address, phone number and the language is who knows what.....

Good luck getting any parts or service if you have any problems.
Super08 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:27 AM
  #29
Tired Old Man
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Valley Springs, CA
Posts: 18,602
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Long tube into a fuselage generates a time delay for a diaphragm to react to. The functionality of a diaphragm carb is totally reliant on the ability of a diaphragm to react to immediate changes in pressure. In essence a pressure differential is being generated in the tube that is not in phase with what the engine is commanded to accomplish. Bends in that long tube make the situation even worse. When you consider the diaphragm is generating a tiny amount of pressure and suction against that pulse hole every time it moves up and down you might figure that bends in a pressure line might easily impede the ability of a diaphragm to push air. It's all basic plumbing. More than a given number of bends in any size pipe and you need a larger pump to do the same amount of work.

Most fail to consider any of that when playing with pulse tubes.
Tired Old Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 10:29 AM
  #30
Tired Old Man
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Valley Springs, CA
Posts: 18,602
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Andika

it's now out of stock at VVRC http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/d...as-engine.html
should they (VVRC) drop the price to $275 ? http://www.flybestrc.com/index.php/engines/dle30.html
Why should VV drop their price? The fact they are sold out might suggest they have been quite successful at selling the product at the current price. Businesses are not in business to save someone money. They are in business to make money, but far too many today think everyone but them should do everything for free.
Tired Old Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 11:03 AM
  #31
soarrich
 
soarrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middletown, NJ
Posts: 4,671
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

@Tired Old Man
The tube snorkel on 3Ws is there so the carb's diaphragm sees the airpressure at the carb's opening? That's a good thing right?
soarrich is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 12:32 PM
  #32
Tired Old Man
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Valley Springs, CA
Posts: 18,602
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

The 3w snorkel and pressure tube arrangement is one of the more effective ways of dealing with a pressure imbalance. One of the reasons I usually suggest running the open end of a diaphragm tube to against the carb intake if one is going to be used.
Tired Old Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 12:49 PM
  #33
Super08
 
Super08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort McMurray, AB, CANADA
Posts: 4,086
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Cool that is what I did on my 150. I installed a nipple like tha 170 has and then used a short piece of tygon and a piece of soft 1/8" brass tube that I put a 90 in. No more changing tune in KE. The end of the 90 is over the intake to the venturi.

Long time no speak Rich.
Super08 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 02:11 PM
  #34
TimBle
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: jedijody


Quote:
ORIGINAL: TimBle

yeah but the act of soldering could result in a blocked vent. Thats not good.
You must be joking, right?
Dude you need hang around Incompetance more. You will learn what people are really capable of then.

Had a bloke at the field who was experiencing running problems with his gasser It would die at strange moments. He mentioned all the text book gasser set up stuff and this vent tube thing.

he fiddled and fiddled. Asked how i set up my DLE 20 that it ran so reliably striaght out the box. Then we noticed I had no "vent tube".

So we broke his "vent tube" off and surely not, he had managed to solder the little hole closed.

Like Imentioned before, make no assumptions about competency.

Anyway I figured this vent tube thing must have been a work around that worked for a poorly installed engine. For the Vent to work it needs local airpressure and as long as the cowl is adequately vented to allow hot air out there should be no problem for the vent hole to equalise pressure inside and outside the carb. Adding hardware to assist it just smacks of over complicating something that should be KISS. Neer needed that mod on Go kart engine so why would Ineed it on a model airplane installation?

i can see it s good idea in theory but one with poor consequences if done incorrectly. Willing to revise my opinion on this on case by case basis
TimBle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 03:44 PM
  #35
crashprofector
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: henderson, NC
Posts: 20
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Hi have DLE 30 no vent tube routed, I run 100 octane low lead avation fuel with penzoil and DAMM will it run like a scalded dog

Thanks Mike
crashprofector is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 04:00 PM
  #36
eddieC
 
eddieC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 2,102
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Quote:
For the Vent to work it needs local airpressure and as long as the cowl is adequately vented to allow hot air out there should be no problem for the vent hole to equalise pressure inside and outside the carb.
Exactly. As TimBle, T.O.M. and others have pointed out, you shouldn't need the extra tubing.

If the area inclusive of the carb is tightly enclosed, you're creating what's known as a pressure cowl and causing carb problems. In this case tho, it sounds like the unneeded tubing is the culprit.
eddieC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 05:01 PM
  #37
kerwin50
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: winston, MO
Posts: 1,378
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

I'd get rid of the tee and go for a 3 line set up. With a tee it just another place to draw air
kerwin50 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 06:37 PM
  #38
captinjohn
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hesperia Michigan, MI
Posts: 12,874
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: crashprofector

Hi have DLE 30 no vent tube routed, I run 100 octane low lead avation fuel with penzoil and DAMM will it run like a scalded dog

Thanks Mike
I run 100 octane low lead avation fuel in my 1980 850cc Yamaha Special 850....and shee run like a scaled dog too!

Thanks Capt,n
captinjohn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 08:52 PM
  #39
dan bowman
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Churchville, MD
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright



Dave I have the same problem, I've done everything you have with no luck  if you ever get it fixed  please let us know what you did

dan bowman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 04:26 AM
  #40
CK1
 
CK1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Efland, NC
Posts: 1,110
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

FWIW ,
I have 3 DLE 30's running in 3 different airframes at this time . The constant with all 3 is that they all run richer in the air than on the ground . When flying inverted or knife edge they become even more rich.
These engines need to be fully warmed before tuning (as with all gas engines).
The high speed needle needs to be leaned to max RPM and may need to be leaned to a barely noticeable slight lean drop in RPM.
The low speed needle needs to lean to the point that it will not take throttle and then richened only enough to the point that throttle transition from idle is without hesitation.
These are my experiences with this specific engine and may be different from others .
The key point here is that proper tuning on these engines is very important to get proper operation.
If you don't have a ton of tuning experience on "Gas " engines( read as not glow )you may need to get some help locally from someone who has the experience.
These are typically very good engines . and the most common problem and correction is the tuning.
They don't need and don't like to be run rich.
CK1 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 10:53 AM
  #41
sortegon
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mission, TX
Posts: 65
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

what I did in my AW Ultimate da150cc that was having the diaphragm issue was just to put a small piece of aluminum sheet (from a beer can) in front of the diaphragm hole. I use two of the cover screws to held it in place.
Problem solved! No tygon needed, no nipples, no nothing.
the ultimate cowl has an air entrance just in front of the carb so the air just hits it hard while flying.
sortegon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 01:14 PM
  #42
captinjohn
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hesperia Michigan, MI
Posts: 12,874
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sortegon

what I did in my AW Ultimate da150cc that was having the diaphragm issue was just to put a small piece of aluminum sheet (from a beer can) in front of the diaphragm hole. I use two of the cover screws to held it in place.
Problem solved! No tygon needed, no nipples, no nothing.
the ultimate cowl has an air entrance just in front of the carb so the air just hits it hard while flying.
That is exactley what my friend done with his Dessert Aircraft 150cc engine. I am going to do the same. Capt,n
captinjohn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 03:02 PM
  #43
DaveE61
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: boulder, CO
Posts: 19
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Thanks for the advice. I ran the engine in the back yard and the problem is still present. I have followed the advice to ensure it isn’t rich, but it still isn’t right. When I turn the airplane inverted it quits. The problem must be with the pickup in the tank. I am going to get a heavier clunk and some gas-tolerant tubing that is more flexible for the pickup than the Tygon I am using.. My testing was done with ½ tank so I am thinking the pickup isn’t moving quickly enough to stay submerged in gas. I am also suspicious that the fuel tank vent line might be getting pinched in the inverted attitude. I won’t be able to do more testing until late this week.

>>

About the discussion of putting tubing on the carburetor vent and routing it into the fuselage: I have flown a DL50 for 2 years in an Extra 300. I would set the needles with the cowl off and then put the cowl on and fly; it would be slobbering rich. After taking the cowl on and off many times I routed the carburetor vent into a pill bottle in the fuselage and I had no more problems setting the needles with the cowl off and then putting it on. The settings stayed the same.

>>

>>

Thanks,

>>

Dave

DaveE61 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 05:20 PM
  #44
AirWizard
 
AirWizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Coffeyville, KS
Posts: 1,228
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Dave

I found an ad for a rotating clunk in a fuel tank in the latest AMA magazine
AirWizard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:04 PM
  #45
3136
 
3136's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 969
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

Dave, was there air in the line after it cut out?
3136 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 06:52 PM
  #46
captinjohn
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hesperia Michigan, MI
Posts: 12,874
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveE61

Thanks for the advice. I ran the engine in the back yard and the problem is still present. I have followed the advice to ensure it isn’t rich, but it still isn’t right. When I turn the airplane inverted it quits. The problem must be with the pickup in the tank. I am going to get a heavier clunk and some gas-tolerant tubing that is more flexible for the pickup than the Tygon I am using.. My testing was done with ½ tank so I am thinking the pickup isn’t moving quickly enough to stay submerged in gas. I am also suspicious that the fuel tank vent line might be getting pinched in the inverted attitude. I won’t be able to do more testing until late this week.

>>

About the discussion of putting tubing on the carburetor vent and routing it into the fuselage: I have flown a DL50 for 2 years in an Extra 300. I would set the needles with the cowl off and then put the cowl on and fly; it would be slobbering rich. After taking the cowl on and off many times I routed the carburetor vent into a pill bottle in the fuselage and I had no more problems setting the needles with the cowl off and then putting it on. The settings stayed the same.

>>

>>

Thanks,

>>

Dave

See if you can find a way to flip the airplane upside down (engine running) with the help of a couple of helpers. If it quits...look and see if there is air in the fuel line to engine. Maybe your pickup line is too long or too stiff. Or maybe clunk came off. Make sure all internal fuel lines are secure on tubing. Good Luck Capt,n
captinjohn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 09:19 PM
  #47
Antique
 
Antique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Somewhere, DC
Posts: 9,825
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

The clunk not moving becoming a problem happens only when the plane is upside down for a long period...pinch off the fuel line sometime with the engine running and see how long it runs...You will be suprpised....
Antique is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2011, 04:12 PM
  #48
captinjohn
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hesperia Michigan, MI
Posts: 12,874
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Antique

The clunk not moving becoming a problem happens only when the plane is upside down for a long period...pinch off the fuel line sometime with the engine running and see how long it runs...You will be suprpised....
If the engine is wide open gobbling fuel fast....not very long and she quits.
captinjohn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 07:36 PM
  #49
dan bowman
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Churchville, MD
Posts: 6
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright

    Dave  did you ever find out what was wrong with your engine??  I have the same engine and problum
dan bowman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 04:06 PM
  #50
captinjohn
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hesperia Michigan, MI
Posts: 12,874
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: DLE 30 dies when upright



Ya...how about it Dave.....did you get theengine problem solved????? Capt,n wants to know Too!!!!!!!!!!

captinjohn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:41 AM.