molokaiboy

Well I recently sent my Syssa engine in to SAP to have them look things over. I was having a difficult time getting the idle below 3000 without it dying. It was also very difficult to start. The engine sings very nice when it is running and I was getting 8600 with an 18X6 prop up front. The trouble was getting the idle below 2500 as Syssa recommends 2300 idle rpm. At 2500 my plane was moving quite a bit while on the ground.

Sent it in to Todd at SAP to have them look over it as several of my friends tried to help me get the engine started with not much success. And idle below 2500 was very unreliable. Todd got my engine and started to look at it. He said that my engine was running perfectly but that it was on the rich side, nothing was wrong with my CDI neither. Had him install a new choke, because the previous owner had trouble getting it to seat well so he removed it and lost it.

Todd sent my engine back to me, so I figured alright my engine is goood to go. Got everything installed, even put all new fuel lines checked all my filters, got some new fuel mixed and went to the field. Had difficulty starting it again with the needles set by the guys at SAP. Kept trying and finally got it to start, let it run at around 3000 for a little while to warm it up. Throttled up to WOT to check the high, again the high was sounding great at 8500+, but as I brought the throttle back down it would die out at around 2800 or so. Again had difficulty getting it started, actually killed my starter battery.

I just don't get what is wrong with my SAP after it was looked over by the guys at SAP. I will try some more and see if I can get it to idle reliably and start easily like the other Syssa's at my field. I would have thought that once I got it back it would be running reliably, but it hasn't been a very enjoyable experience. Any thoughts guys on what could be wrong? Maybe I need to get an overhaul kit fir the carb?

Aloha,
Les

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Didn't like the answers on FG ?

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Les, Why are you posting that here? Why don't you return the engine again and have the manufacturer try to help you? They know more about those engines than anyone here on RCU. Are you just trying to start trouble for SYSSA?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Get the engine out of the plane and set it up for running on a test stand and learn how to run and tune it.

MTK

It sounds like your low end is lean. One way to check is to get the engine idling as low as it will hold a setting then suddenly increase to full. I suspect that it will die lean. Richen the low end until the engine accelerates instantly

This is a simple engine to run well. About as simple as they get. Learn to tune it better and you'll be much happier and so will your engine

squeaky penguin

Sounds like he anwered your question. Take w8ye's advice and tune that engine up correctly, get some help if need be.

Antique

My Feedback: (4)

Go read the story on the other forum...It was already sent back and returned...
Confused ? Surprise, surprise... One poster here says rich, the other lean.. Since it starts and runs, then dies, it's a pulse issue...Find the leak, it will work....I M N S H O....

TimBle

hmm 3rd owner, 2nd owner sort of started to alude to troubles...
never bodes well

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

How did your test with the new tank and lines go that Antique suggested over on FG?

molokaiboy

I figured the more people that read it the more possibilities of finding answers. Not everyone frequent all the forums thats is why I posted here as well.

Not starting anything. Heard that they were having troubles since a storm of sort. So I figure instead of trying to contact them when they are having other issues to settle, I'd start here. I have already emailed SAP in regards to a new carb and or carb rebuild kit. I spent $50 to send it to them to look at and install a new choke and shipped back to me. Took a few weeks but no problem as I know Todd is a small operation. I love how the other SAP's run at my field and really believe this is a great engine. I just need to get mine running.
I am in no way bashing SAP, I am just stating facts that apply to my situation.

Well when we had it running and idling at around 2600, when quickly increasing to WOT it transitioned great, no hesitation, no lag, didn't even die. This engine sounds so beautiful when it is running, I just had a hard time getting it to idle lower than 25-2600 very well without it dying. And starts were difficult as well.

Aloha to all the guys that have posted helpful info.
Les

earlwb

I would pull the engine out of the airplane and run it on a test stand.
with it out of the plane, everything is out in the open for easy access and observation.
So then if it runs great on the test stand, then you have a problem with the airplane then and not the engine.
the SAP folks test ran the engine on a test stand too. So it ran Ok there for them.
That alludes to you having a problem with the plane, maybe the fuel tank and fuel lines or something.

molokaiboy

I am putting a new tank together and as soon as the weather calms down a bit I will try to get it running again.

ALoha,
Les

ctshepherd

My Feedback: (34)

Any pictures available on how it is installed in the airplane? Is there plenty of clearance between the carb opening and firewall?

molokaiboy

Well got a chance to try the new fuel tank. As suspected the new tank solved nothing, still did the same thing as all previous attempts.

So we got an idea, we removed the low needle, and with the ignition off applied an electric starter and spun it over hoping to see fuel spit out where the needles was. Nothing came out. We then closed the choke opened butterfly to WOT and applied an electric starter again with the ignition off. All of a sudden some dark black crud along with fuel came flying out of the muffler. It seems that there was oil gummed up blocking fuel flow. We gather the fuel all evaporated and left behind just the oil and crud that blocked proper fuel flow.

Well we finally got the engine started and it ran well after some tuning. It still seems to be running a bit on the rich side on low throttle (2400-2500). High is still on the rich side as well and I had 8200 with an 18x6 prop. Will do some flying and minor adjustments as needed till it breaks in a little more.

After going through all that to get it running, I am wondering how they got it to run well during their tests, and I had such a difficult time. No one will ever know I guess.

Thanks to all the guys that gave their advice.

Aloha,
Les

TimBle

a few possibilities


1) ...perhaps they never ran it at all... <shikes, controversial>

2) ...perhaps the bloackage was in your fuel lines before the carb? DO youhave a fuel filter on? Eithe rway of they connected it too thier plumbng and it ran then the blockage was somewhere in your fuel lines.

molokaiboy

No blockage in my fuel lines. First tank I replaced all the lines, removed filters and just had solid lines. Also pressure tested my fuel tank and found no leaks. Blew air through my fuel lines to see if fuel was moving correctly.

Second tank, new with all new fuel lines, no filters, pressure tested, fuel moving correctly. I don't think I had any blockages in my fuel lines. But the good thing is it is running now.

Thanks for all the help,
Les

Super08

My Feedback: (2)

With no fuel filter over time you will keep having nothing but problems. The passages in a gas carb are much smaller than in a glow engine and will block easily. The best is to use a Walbro felt type filter for a cluck in the tank and use a third line for fueling. For extra protection it is good to have a filter in your gas can as well. Do not even bother with using a metal screen type filter (Dubro, Trax...) as the screen is too coarse to do any good.

molokaiboy

I always use a filter on my fueler tank, also inline filter from tank to carb, filter on vent lines. I just removed the filters to assure I wasn't getting any leaks at my filters going to the carb, as I had that happen previously, thats why solid lines were used just for testing purposes only.

Aloha,
Les

helodrvr

My Feedback: (88)

Is the ldle screw still installed on the carb.?

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

You missed Super08's point completely. The filters you have been using are useless. Dump the glow mentality and use products designed for use with gas engines, not those intended for glow engines.

I'm not buying a word of the comments you made about crud puking out of the muffler. Not a way in hell the carb would have pressurized enough to push crap out of the muffler, and no way the muffler had anything at all to do with fuel flow. Perhaps you had stuck something into the muffler that was finally pushed out?

Perhaps you just wanted to move on and not let anyone know where you had made a mistake?

jedijody

My Feedback: (1)

Slosh abunch of rawfuel through any muffler with even a little bit of run time on it and what do you think will come out of it, black crud. It didn't come out of the carburetor.

molokaiboy

I am not trying to cover up any mistake, so please do not put words in my mouth. As for filters I will be using are a felt clunk a friend gave me yesterday during testing. And I am using a 3 line system. I have yet to order some good vent line filters but that will be coming soon. I also have a gas filter on my fueling can.

As for the crud not coming from the carb you folks may be right and I may have worded it incorrectly or explained totally wrong, for that I appologize, but there was definately something causing a blockage. But wouldnt fuel come out at the needles when we removed it?

I didn't say the muffler had anything to do with it. I did say that we came to a conclusion that fuel wasn't flowing correctly or had a blockage of sorts. You guys can all not believe a word I am saying but that is what we saw and what happened. My post said we closed the choke, throttle WOT, ignition off, spun it continuosly till fuel squirted out of the muffler, this took quite a while. All I know is after we got fuel to spit out of the muffler. The engine was easier to start and ran the longest it had ever run while I had it. After running the engine a bit and some idling we shut it off let it cool. After about 20 mins or so we went to start it again and it started right up.
I have a felt type fuel filter clunk in my tank but the previous owner did not, so we may have flushed some things that accumalted while he had it.

.
OK it may have not flown out but it did kinda just spat out. Whatever we did worked and that is just great for me. Now I can get flying.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Sometimes, a "Witch Hunt" is just not worth it.

If the engine runs good - use and enjoy it!