captain2

My Feedback: (2)

Mody
I have found this chart (from OS) generally pretty accurate re fuel consumption:

http://osengines.com/faq/faq-q900.html

with 20% glow $25 and higher, easy to see why the move to gassers?

378

My Feedback: (4)

No, they won't. Like diesels, there will ALWAYS be modelers too stubborn to go gasoline. I'm one of them, I don't care about cost effective so much as smiles per dollar, and gassers just sound too much like lawn equipment to register very high on the SPD meter.

David Bathe

I'm all for saving money and have looked at the idea of a small gasser... (The smallest I have is an Old Jet Ryobi 30cc... small in cc's, HUGE in physical bulk!) The problem comes when you're after serious power in a small, light weight package. There has been several experiments over in the F3A forum, guys looking for a gasser to replace the glow YS's. Problem is there's needing a 50cc gas engines to replace the power of the standard 1.70YS... a 27cc (ish)  motor. That's a massive difference... in weight and bulk. Under those (competitive) circumstances it's never going to replace glow. Which in its self have being rapidly replaced by epower anyway. Sunday sports is a different matter off course. 

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

20 years ago -n the era of overweight magneto equipped gassers it was easy to dismiss them because all they entitled you to was getting your right arm in shape. Enter CDI and all that is history. Granted a 2 stroke gasser sounds like, well, a 2 stroke gasser (is it really that different than a 2 stroke glow?) - but I guess you haven't heard a Honda or the new line of Saito 4 stroke gas engines - sound much better (realistic) than anything that you run with glow - and the fuel economy is even better!

378

My Feedback: (4)

To my ear it is. Two stroke gassers tend to sound like they're misfiring more often than they aren't when they're idling, and this is common regardless of whether it's a string trimmer or not. They all seem to do it. OS, DLE, Ryobi, Homelite, all of 'em. Glow engines just don't do that, even in the same displacement range they sound much muuuch smoother. Nowhere near as much popping and snorting.


And yes, I know they are, in fact, running just fine. They just don't sound like it.


Now those are gassers I wouldn't mind flying, mostly because they don't sound like my weed whacker. I doubt I'll ever have an aircraft large enough to necessitate one though, and I'm not one to put an engine twice the size of one recommended onto an airframe. The biggest I'm liable to get would be a .60 to .90 warbird, which most of RCU would attach a DLE-20 or bigger to. Me? OS 55AX. Maybe an FS-62V if I wanted a four stroke.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Many people are like me hardworking, taking care of family with no medical coverage, Thank GOD we are no job, despite it's contract but still making the living.

My Gasser experience is the first and I've started working on my Yak 54 120 with DLE20 gasser. The idea of buying a gasser for $269.99 plus taxes would keep me up for 2 nights in a row, I would think to buy a $150 plane and get a .46 size glow for less than $100 boom here you go. Not to worry about servos just go standard. I had bought me Revolver 40 ARF and paid $186 with taxes and ended up returning it to my LHS for $160 as price plummeted and paid extra over $100 and got me DLE20.

Captain2, the chart for OS fuel consumption is pretty informative, but honestly speaking being in a hobby for 7+ years I never had a strength to buy an O.S. Engine .46 for $150 dollars with our without free shipping. It's not that I never had that sort of money, but I opted for Chinese engines like Magnum, ASP or even Taiwanese thunder tiger. Currently I'm using .52 ASP 2 stroke on my Phoenix model Strega 40. Some how it sometimes wiggles or wobbles while flying. Like I've been told bigger the better, and with Gassers, you save up a lot of your time on cleaning, and so many other stuff.

I'm not against Glows, I always wanted to use a 4 stroke but people advised me that you need to have a sturdier robust model in order to sustain a lots of 4 stroke's vibrations all the way during the flight. Gassers vibrate a lot as well, don't know if they vibrate more than 4 stroke glows or equal but they do. Some people would switch to gassers, some would and would some be doing otherwise? Gasser to glow, I don't think so. I've not tasted the Gassers yet, but I've been told that once I'd get the taste of gassers, I won't go back to glow, well I still yet to see, but at the same time I would like to fly my glow again it's before time. It will all be seen.

Glow engines would be obsolete can't be said with confirmation I'd say only the time will tell. Yes I agree a lot of people have transitioned from glow to Electric power which is another story and ease, yet convenience.

Big plane fliers would go with Gas and glow that's their choice. We are here to choose what we want and what our pocket allows. Experimentation and changing most of the time is exciting not always, honestly speaking I'm excited about my Gasser project.

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

have 2 GP UCD .46s, one with a Saito 82 4 stroke (10.5k/13x6) the other with a 82 gas 4 stroke (FG-14) - getting 9.2k with a 14x6. Sure the glow is a faster airplane but that is not what that particular plane (or many scale aircraft) is all about. So I end up with a gas powered .40 size airplane that'll outpull its glow cousin, fly about 30 minutes on 8 oz of fuel that costs a whole 25 cents as opposed to $1.50 for the glow. And the gasser does start every bit as easy, as well as idle and transition every bit as well. Getting the high end set right is just a little bit more touchy. NGH BTW has come out with a 9cc (.55 ci) gasser - a sign of things to come....

armody

My Feedback: (10)

No job = ON JOB sorry for the typo

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

in all fairness, OS's fuel consumption chart should apply to all engines - not just OSs. And the OS (and Saito) are substantially higher in price than pretty much anything made in China. While I don't believe, that too many will argue that the 'brand' engines are higher quality, there is also little doubt that the ASPs/TTs etc work just fine for most purposes. You will also note that the recent OS (and Saito) entries into the gas arena are substantially higher in cost than the NGH/DLE/DLAs/SVs etc etc of the world.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

OS, Saito have jumped into the Gassers area, Chinese made Evolution as well but they are high priced. Yes NGH came out with 9CC engine. I noticed a lot here on rcuniverse that if people had any bad experience with an engine, or servo, or 2 stroke 2 stroke, people would whine about it which is natural but their recommendations would be not to go with that not in a bad way but in a good way that you may not have to suffer what I'd gone through with that.

I don't think I'd go with expensive gassers, but I would certainly like to try NGH other chinese engines. I would like to try JBA and SK they are chinese made too, these 2 stroke glow engines are a powerhouse specially JBA, but I've heard a lot of negative stories about it as well from the people here.

Again what your money allows you, what you choose go with it and I prefer it that way.

Captain2.

Are you gonna be a complete gas guy or would stay hybrid?

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

no electrics for me - something unnatural about an airplane that doesn't make any noise. Lipos are dangerous and the planes generally a bit small for my taste. However, that same noise that I want will likely be the reason that sooner or later I will have to go electric - or not fly at all.
For right now, converting pretty much everything I got to gas and enjoying it very much.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Hello Guys,

My Yak is getting to the completion phase fast and hopefully it would be up in the air real soon.

Here are 2 pix and I would post more

Mody

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

my GP Super Skybolt - with the NGH GT17. Note that this plane has a bunch of flights behind it, was originally equipped with a side mt OS 91, and that the original cowl was 'repaired' with some Monokote and some popsicle stick stringers if you look closely enough.
AUW is just over 9 lbs - was getting 8.5k with a 14x7 with the OS, now just a bit less than that with the 15x8 you see in the pics. The bigger prop gave me some vertical you'd have to see to believe!

armody

My Feedback: (10)

I would like to have a metallic tail wheel assembly for my Yak 54 120. Which one do y'all recommend.

Any links?

Thanks

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

Ohio Superstar makes some good although expensive ones. Tower and any decent LHS will generally stock them. Can't imagine that your Yak will weigh much more than 10 lbs., why not consider those Sullivan tailgears, cheaper and much much easier to install...

armody

My Feedback: (10)

captain,

Your Bipe gives ya plenty of vertical, someday I gotta see for myself. The tail wheel assembly that came with the plane, is metallic and very good quality but unfortunately the bracket is too long, either they threw it into the box by mistake it looks more sturdy and heavy most likely 30CC or 50CC size plane. That assembly cannot fit since lower fuselage aft area does have may be 2 inch solid wood where it can be fitted rest past 2 inch area is hollow, which is stupid of them to do that.

I'm having few issues here now. Rudder had been installed with pull-pull servo Hitec 645B, elevator won't allow you to install 2 servos, unless you install another servo tray inside the fuselage in order to get those 2 servos hooked up with push rods to the elevator. Since the manufacturer gave the option to install 1 servo for 2 halves of elevator and to connect them together with a dowel, so I did that, so one servo can move both elevator halves together.

Now I need servo extensions for Hobbico CS-126 servos. Can JR servo extension be used for CS-126 servos. I need 24" servo extension.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXNRK1&P=7

About tail wheel I thought I may use this one as well

http://shop.dubro.com/products/produ...4.0.0.0?pp=12&

Captain,

Do you have the link for the Sullivan's tail wheel assembly?

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

the Sullivan tailgear:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...%3E+tailwheels

lighter, cheaper much easier to install - don't know that I'd use them on planes heavier than 10 lbs or so

EVERYBODY (other than freaking Futaba) uses the same 'universal' fittings - Hitec, JR, Airtronics - everybody. Guess that only Futaba would have enough of an attitude to try to rope you into buying stuff specific to that brand. Tower (and Hobbico) servos uses universal connectors as well. Have used the Tower TS64 and TS150 servos with no problems, although Hitec gets most of my money.

We are getting a bit far afield - this forum is a gas engine discussion and not a build forum. Feel free to send me an email though - I have lots of opinions on lots of things!

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Yeah, this forum is about the influx of Chinese engine into US market, and majority of the people are going to gas, and a lots are not. Capt, I've sent ya a PM you may check it out.

Thanks

Mody

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

a 120 four stroke (FS-120) weighs in at 36 oz and is rated at 2.1 hp at an unrealistic 12000 rpm. The DLE20 weighs about 4 oz less and is rated at 2.5hp at an achieveable 9000 rpm. More importantly the DLE is extremely happy with larger prop sizes that the OS isn't. My DLE20 really likes 17x6 Vess props. The OS sucks about 2 oz/min of $25.00 glow fuel, my DLE about .6 oz of $4 gas/oil. A fuel cost factor of 6 + a consumption factor of over 3 makes the DLE 20 times cheaper to run. Add to that that almost all the problems that gassers have had in the past are now history and you have a no brainer IMO...
Oh yeah, the DLE $200 cheaper to buy as well!

My Club, like most Clubs I suspect, wouldn't exist without the majority of our members that are 50+. Myself included[] By definition we have grown up with the difficulties of what RC is all about - and certainly look at things like reset buttons (simulators) with the appropriate amount of disdain. You are not flying until you crash a few. All us codgers will be opinionated and slow to change, that is our right BUT it is beyond me how anybody can argue the math or the results. DLE engines are now the engines of choice in about everything I see at my Club these days, 2 stroke glow a distant second, and lastly the larger 4 strokes pretty much gone.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

Captain2,

I gotta say, the way you summarized the whole story regarding glow and gas is really commending. Yesterday at my work, I was talking to a colleague of mine, and he is engineer, and He said that company might send him to China, for 3 weeks, since he was sent there couple of times back there. I asked him, that before you leave, let me know so I might hand ya some bucks in order to get me few Chinese gas engines on the way back.

Like the topic, yes a lot of Chinese gas engines are here in US market, I've seen some of the threads on it, many people got engines from Hobby King and different other places, some turned out to be junk, some engines gave up long way before, some just pushed people to the levels of frustration beyond expectations. Cannot predict that if one had an accident on the same highway or feeder the other one would face the same, I don't think so. I had huge great feed back on servos and the topic is still floating here around. People had bad experience with karbonite gear servos, I had mixed opinion over Hobbico's CS-126 servos, and I was told to wait on my gasser project if I can. Anyway, transition of gas is there, NGH has come out of 9CC gas engine, Wow, but for some it would be arrgggh,

I've been told that once I would go on gas would turn my back on glows, since it yet to happen as my project is entering the phase of completion, and DLE20 is my first gas engine with Zinger 16X6 prop on board, I'm still trying to figure out how would I feel after flying a DLE20 on Yak 54 120 as compared to Phoenix model Strega 40 with ASP .52 2 Stroke.

My mentor about who I spoke a lot over here, got 4 brand new Saito 91 S in his stock, 2 Magnums .52 Four strokes, and God knows a lots of stuff he has. He is gonna used Saito 91S in a flat fuselage plane, which hovers does 3D and all, I don't know what that kinda flat fuselage plane called. He told me, that your airframe gotta be strong in order to sustain the Gas engines as they vibrate a lot period. I told him, how about 4 stroke glows, they vibrate a lot, so he said they do but not as much as gas engines? what is the analogy of 4 Stroke glow and 2 stroke gas engine when it comes to vibration, which vibrates more? 2 Stroke Gas or 4 Stroke Glow? It's little off the topic but I wanna know, or I can go ahead and start a brand new thread on it?

A lot of members in my club are 50+ I'm 40+ and some are 30+ but trend of flying there by our members is not in multitude, it would be astounding, if 8 members are flying the same day, it used to happen but now rarely. Some people are stubborn mule, no matter what they would not go to gas and other way around. Chinese gas engines are here because people would buy it and they are being marketed whether the likeness and dis likeness of the hobbyists.

Mody

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

you can get a good idea of what these engines are selling for in China at the Hobbyking website. The one Chinese product that I thought wasn't worth the money SV. KJeep in mind that if you buy in China there's a good chance that you won't get the warranty honored over here.

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

PS you may find that 16x6 not quite enough prop for your DLE although you should easily see over 9000 rpm. 16x8 a good prop for it esp. in a warbird, 17x6 for about anything else. 14 lbs thrust with a 17x6, something about 13.5 with the 16x8. These are really good 3D numbers if you can keep your AUW to 9 lbs or so...

armody

My Feedback: (10)

16X6 I chose because I want more thrust than speed. I would probably go for Xoar 17X6 as well. Since prop had been balanced, so I'm gonna see how it's gonna work with DLE20.

armody

My Feedback: (10)

16X6 I chose because I want more thrust than speed. I would probably go for Xoar 17X6 as well. Since prop had been balanced, so I'm gonna see how it's gonna work with DLE20.

captain2

My Feedback: (2)

thrust is what counts and is not necessarily directly related to engine speed and/or airspeed. Thrust tests on the DLE show that the 'best' speed prop is a 16x8 with something over 13 lbs of thrust, but also that thrust is highest (14 lbs +) with the 17x6s I mentioned. You will find that your engine will absolutely scream (and be quite noisy) with that 16x6, you may even see revs in excess of 10k, but also that you'll be leaving a couple pounds of thrust on the table.