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  1. #1

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    Need more power!

    I have a ESM F-7F tigercat. have the plane retracts and all. Planed to put DLE30's in it. I would also like to run a scale 3 blade prop. My Dle can sping a XOAR 18x10 right around 7,100 or so. I figured a 18x10 3 blade would only drop 1,000 or so rpm. So i ordere a scale Beila 18x10 3 blade from TBM. I mount the engione on the stand run it first with the Xoar prop then throw on the 3 blade. Man did that prop ever keep the engine out of its power band lol it only turned it at 4,200 it never got either which was supprise right around 280-285 on temps which might still be high but not super high.

    So should i buy another DLE 30 and run non scale 3 blade props or new engines. I was looking at the EVO 40 but all you experts and non experts what do you think for a engine suggestion. What about that new Twin 40cc?
    AMA # 126183
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  2. #2
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    RE: Need more power!


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    I have a ESM F-7F tigercat. have the plane retracts and all. Planed to put DLE30's in it. I would also like to run a scale 3 blade prop. My Dle can sping a XOAR 18x10 right around 7,100 or so. I figured a 18x10 3 blade would only drop 1,000 or so rpm. So i ordere a scale Beila 18x10 3 blade from TBM. I mount the engione on the stand run it first with the Xoar prop then throw on the 3 blade. Man did that prop ever keep the engine out of its power band lol it only turned it at 4,200 it never got either which was supprise right around 280-285 on temps which might still be high but not super high.

    So should i buy another DLE 30 and run non scale 3 blade props or new engines. I was looking at the EVO 40 but all you experts and non experts what do you think for a engine suggestion. What about that new Twin 40cc?
    I use Mezjlik 18x10 3 blader on my OS33GT and it is only a moderate load for the 33GT. Actually the 33GT spins a 20x10 2 blader at very high output so I'd suggest that the 33GT is the better engine for your application. The ZDZ40 has also been run using a 20x10 and it doesn't compare to the OS. FWIW2U
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  3. #3

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    RE: Need more power!

    so you are saying the OS 33 is stronger than the ZDZ 40..........

    I have seen the reviews on the 33 and it isnt that much stronger than the DLE 30 if any. I will run a XOAR 20x10 on the DLE tonight. What does the 33 turn a xoar 20x10??
    AMA # 126183
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  4. #4
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    RE: Need more power!

    biela props are good props but they put the engine under a greater load when compared to mezjlik or wood props... i wouldve gone with 16" 3 blades ... but then again i have no 3 blade prop experience.. ive only run 18x8 xoar 18x10 mezlik and a 19x8 Xoar Black Sword.... for 3d performance and vertical uplines the 18x8 has given me the best performance.... im going to order a 19x7 standard wood xoar and see if my performance improves


    \"Propellers are notorious for inflicting serious bodily harm while vigorously defending their space\" George Aldrich

  5. #5
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    RE: Need more power!


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    I have a ESM F-7F tigercat. have the plane retracts and all. Planed to put DLE30's in it. I would also like to run a scale 3 blade prop. My Dle can sping a XOAR 18x10 right around 7,100 or so. I figured a 18x10 3 blade would only drop 1,000 or so rpm. So i ordere a scale Beila 18x10 3 blade from TBM. I mount the engione on the stand run it first with the Xoar prop then throw on the 3 blade. Man did that prop ever keep the engine out of its power band lol it only turned it at 4,200 it never got either which was supprise right around 280-285 on temps which might still be high but not super high.

    So should i buy another DLE 30 and run non scale 3 blade props or new engines. I was looking at the EVO 40 but all you experts and non experts what do you think for a engine suggestion. What about that new Twin 40cc?
    It might sound silly, but you did re-tune it when you changed props didn't you? I think that prop is too big though.
    I run a MAS 16x10 3 blade on a dle 30 in a BH Stuka, they are not the best prop around but you will get plenty of thrust.
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    RE: Need more power!

    I run a Biela 17x10 3 blade prop on the DLE 30 in my Hangar9 Cessna 182 getting around 6800 rpm's on the ground and it unloads quite a bit once up to speed in the air. I tried an 18 x10 3 blade and it kept it too far below its power range.
    Be advised this engine was broken in on a 18 x 8 -2 blade prop before I ever put the 3 blade prop on . The 17x10 -3 blade might be a little too heavy of a load until the engine breaks in a little.
    \"Aint this great !!\" - Chris
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    RE: Need more power!

    yes the engine is broken in. i did retune it as it was only turning around 3900 and had to richen it up. at first i thought my tach was off but checked it and all good. I did run it before the 3 blade with a XOAR 18x10. My DLE from the start did seem to have been down about 300-400 over everyone else. I havent done anything to it to drop rpm. I have messed with the port volume, and run a Bowman ring. the bowman ring gave me around 400-500 more over the stock ring. The one thing i havent checked yet is the timing.

    The xoar 18x10 turns right at 7,000 -7,100 on the stock muffler same rpm with the Valley view cannister muffler.
    The Xoar 18x6 turns around 9,300 on both mufflers

    Anyway the Beila 18x10 didnt let it come into its power band (power range). I had bought the props because they offered the best scale props out there. I was going to cut about 3/8-1/2" off to give it the scale square tip look of the orginal prop. i havent dont that yet in case i keep the DLE 30's and sell the prop. the prop was moving a lot of air I would say close to the 18x10 2 blade one but i didnt have a scale to measure.

    most of the 35's out there will only turn around 300-500 more than the DLE but that might be enough to pull this prop around 5500. I have looked over the prop I could rework it but i dont know the build of the prop inside of it. i know a thinner airfoil and sharper leading and trail edges it would pick up 1,000 + rpm.

    I might just get some three blade Zingers and rework them the way i like and have them painted. now this is for scale. for speed i will just run the APC 16x14 prop cut to a 15.5x14. it pulls this at 8,300 and is quick...
    AMA # 126183
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  8. #8

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    RE: Need more power!

    You might want to take a look at the PTE36R engine. Its a rear intake rear exhaust which wont be a problem with the round cowls of an F7F.
    KEEP UM FLYIN

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    RE: Need more power!

    Thanks stuka i did look at this one and its only about 400-500 more rpm than the DLE. I am going backwards on this lol Choose a prop for the plane then choose then engine to spin that prop lol.

    I think if i want this prop my choices are, Zenoah 38 if can be made light enough, EVO 40, a 40cc twin, I havent looked at what 3W offers yet though.
    AMA # 126183
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  10. #10
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    RE: Need more power!

    I would check the timing . I have 4 DLE 30 engines and none of them were set correctly out of the box , a few were off by 15 degrees . I have made a habit of checking and setting the timing on any engine I buy before I run it . All the needle turning in the world won't make one run right if the timing isn't correct . Set it at 28 to 30 degree BTDC and re-adjust the carb .
    \"Aint this great !!\" - Chris
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    RE: Need more power!


    ORIGINAL: CK1

    I would check the timing . I have 4 DLE 30 engines and none of them were set correctly out of the box , a few were off by 15 degrees . I have made a habit of checking and setting the timing on any engine I buy before I run it . All the needle turning in the world won't make one run right if the timing isn't correct . Set it at 28 to 30 degree BTDC and re-adjust the carb .

    I fly a DLE30 at 5,000'. Do you think the 28 to 30 degree BTDC timing is correct for this altitude?

    Thanks,

    Dave

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    RE: Need more power!


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    so you are saying the OS 33 is stronger than the ZDZ 40..........

    I have seen the reviews on the 33 and it isnt that much stronger than the DLE 30 if any. I will run a XOAR 20x10 on the DLE tonight. What does the 33 turn a xoar 20x10??
    Yup! The ZDZ40 is anemic in comparison. Heavy too...As far as reviews go, you apparently haven't followed my efforts with this engine. It is the strongest 30cc-40cc class engine I have tested to date but of course I have not tested them all, only 1/2 a dozen

    It's pretty much irrelevant to quote ground rpm but as a reference, the 33Gt turns the 20x10 at 7350-7390 on the ground. In the air it really sings and hauls an 11 pounder around like a rag doll....half throttle mostly.

    It turns the 18x10 Mezj 3 blader at 7630-7680 on the ground. BTW- I am using a piped engine so your numbers would be down on muffler alone. All my engines are piped including the DLE55
    Regards,
    MattK
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    RE: Need more power!

    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    so you are saying the OS 33 is stronger than the ZDZ 40..........

    I have seen the reviews on the 33 and it isnt that much stronger than the DLE 30 if any. I will run a XOAR 20x10 on the DLE tonight. What does the 33 turn a xoar 20x10??
    Yup! The ZDZ40 is anemic in comparison. Heavy too...As far as reviews go, you apparently haven't followed my efforts with this engine. It is the strongest 30cc-40cc class engine I have tested to date but of course I have not tested them all, only 1/2 a dozen

    It's pretty much irrelevant to quote ground rpm but as a reference, the 33Gt turns the 20x10 at 7350-7390 on the ground. In the air it really sings and hauls an 11 pounder around like a rag doll....half throttle mostly.

    It turns the 18x10 Mezj 3 blader at 7630-7680 on the ground. BTW- I am using a piped engine so your numbers would be down on muffler alone. All my engines are piped including the DLE55
    So an OS GT33 would be good enough for a 14 lbs plane like a Giant Stick?

    Sorry MTK, but did you have a posting of the 1/2 dozen engine tests you performed? I am thinking about my first gas engine in the 30cc range also. If you have a link to your review results, I would greatly appreciate it. It would help the OP as well, I would think.
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  14. #14

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    RE: Need more power!

    ORIGINAL: hsukaria

    ORIGINAL: MTK


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    so you are saying the OS 33 is stronger than the ZDZ 40..........

    I have seen the reviews on the 33 and it isnt that much stronger than the DLE 30 if any. I will run a XOAR 20x10 on the DLE tonight. What does the 33 turn a xoar 20x10??
    Yup! The ZDZ40 is anemic in comparison. Heavy too...As far as reviews go, you apparently haven't followed my efforts with this engine. It is the strongest 30cc-40cc class engine I have tested to date but of course I have not tested them all, only 1/2 a dozen

    It's pretty much irrelevant to quote ground rpm but as a reference, the 33Gt turns the 20x10 at 7350-7390 on the ground. In the air it really sings and hauls an 11 pounder around like a rag doll....half throttle mostly.

    It turns the 18x10 Mezj 3 blader at 7630-7680 on the ground. BTW- I am using a piped engine so your numbers would be down on muffler alone. All my engines are piped including the DLE55
    So an OS GT33 would be good enough for a 14 lbs plane like a Giant Stick?

    Sorry MTK, but did you have a posting of the 1/2 dozen engine tests you performed? I am thinking about my first gas engine in the 30cc range also. If you have a link to your review results, I would greatly appreciate it. It would help the OP as well, I would think.

    MTK your information is useless for my application. I didnt ask how to get more power out of the DLE 30. I can not run tuned pipes on my engine and plane combo you should have seen that. Why would I buy a pipe and header for another 200 dollars when i can get a DLE 55 for another 70 dollars and the same weight as the 33 and full pipe set up maybe lighter.
    The Mezjilk props are thinner and i dont think they produce the same thrust as a XOAR. They are a lighter load than a XOAR. I would like to see a link to your review though.


    Hsukaria yes the OS 33 would be enought and so would the DLE. The OS 33 will not spin a XOAR at that rpm with the stock muffler.

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    RE: Need more power!

    Dave ,
    Good question. I am not aware of a need to change ignition timing based on altitude .Perhaps one of the more technically oriented Guru's can chime in on that. I can say that altitude will have a dramatic effect on carb settings, ignition timing will effect carb settings, so if you were to change the timing you would need to re-adjust the carb.
    \"Aint this great !!\" - Chris
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    RE: Need more power!

    Seems you answered your own question there GrumpRaptor!....

    Go out and purchase 2-DLE55's and throw on your 3-blade props!...
    If you can\'\'\'\'t dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em with BS

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    RE: Need more power!

    WOW I feel your pain.

    My 3 DLE 30cc will also spin a 18X10 Xora 2 blad at 71-7200 rpms. I has become my fav war bird prop, as I have tried a 17X12 apc and 16X14 apc props. Yes they both spolled up higher than than the 18X10 but they did not seem any faster and were harder to slow down for landings. (CMP P40, BF 109, and Spitfire)

    I have a NGH 35 Rear muff motor with a little over a Gal and1/2 and it spins about 5-600rpms over a DLE 30 with just a little tuneing.

    I was thinking of useing the same 18X10 3 blade on, as I just spent $124 on a freaking spinner for the CMP 109 andI have to cut my own slots.

    I have 2 DLE 55 and I was going to install one on my ESM 74in Corsair, soI can spin a scale size20X8 3 blade prop. I love DLE 55 as they are only a pound over a 30 and 12mm taller on the head. But A DLE55 just would not fit well in my Corsair as way to much head and pitts muff will stick out.

    So I just recived a PTE36R

    Wich is just like my NGH 35 where the muff attaches to the rear of the head wich helps a ton for fitting in tight cows (Mustangs, P40, 109 etc)

    I orders the Same scale propfor my PTE36R and im hopeing it will work

    I saw on troybuilts web site that they used a DLE 30 some othere 33cc and a PTE36r ran all 3 with a non scale 17X10 belia and the DLE only did 6k while the PTE did 6700rpm I think.

    SO I was hopeing the PTE would add least do 6k

    As war birds don't need to instant power repsonce but I don't want it to over heat.

    Im hopeing to put it on the motor stand this week. So when I messure the head temp what is the best process?

    While its running? Where do you point the gun?

    Thanks Mike

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    RE: Need more power!

    no grump lol.

    I was refering to the OS 33 with pipes as the DLE 55 will make more power but lighter than the 33 with pipes.

    The three blade prop is to small for the 55.

    MTK came on here said the OS 33 has way more power than the DLE. now most everyone runs gas engines witha muffler or cannisters on singles. In his first post he didnt say he was running a tuned pipe. the OS 33 on muffler isnt much stronger than the DLE 30......


    I guess i am asking a question than no one can answer lol.


    So For those that know what engine out there in the 30-40cc range can turn 1000 more rpm over the DLE 30 with stock muffler? Does that make it easier to answer lol

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    RE: Need more power!

    Tell me you changed the Tachometer settings from 2-blades to 3-blades....Hhmmmm...??
    \"I ran out of ideas and altitude at the same time...\"

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    RE: Need more power!

    ORIGINAL: Prop_Washer2

    Tell me you changed the Tachometer settings from 2-blades to 3-blades....Hhmmmm...??

    Think about what you asked me ok.
    Think about how a Optical tach works, then think about your question.

    Your question would be legit if going from a 3 blade to a 2 blade.

    Yes i did check to make sure i was'nt on the 4 blade setting though ....

    I think i will just go with the EVO 40's
    AMA # 126183
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  21. #21
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    RE: Need more power!

    ORIGINAL: airraptor
    .. I guess i am asking a question than no one can answer lol.


    So For those that know what engine out there in the 30-40cc range can turn 1000 more rpm over the DLE 30 with stock muffler? Does that make it easier to answer lol
    With what prop?
    My first PTE-36R turned a Zoar 19-3DA prop at 8140 RPM on it's first time at the flying field. I didn't look up any DLE-30 numbers but you can compare that with the DLE-30 RPM numbers that you have on hand or are willing to search for.

    That 8140 RPM number was obtained using the original noise maker (muffler) which has two exhaust pipes with an I.D. of .63 inch each. My second PTE-36R was delivered with a new and sturdier muffler with smaller diameter exhaust pipes. I have not yet made a meaningful comparison.
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    RE: Need more power!


    ORIGINAL: airraptor

    no grump lol.

    I was refering to the OS 33 with pipes as the DLE 55 will make more power but lighter than the 33 with pipes.

    The three blade prop is to small for the 55.

    MTK came on here said the OS 33 has way more power than the DLE. now most everyone runs gas engines witha muffler or cannisters on singles. In his first post he didnt say he was running a tuned pipe. the OS 33 on muffler isnt much stronger than the DLE 30......


    I guess i am asking a question than no one can answer lol.


    So For those that know what engine out there in the 30-40cc range can turn 1000 more rpm over the DLE 30 with stock muffler? Does that make it easier to answer lol

    You don't seem to have much of a clue but think you do.....so I will leave you to your own ignorance. No skin off my hide either way
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

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    RE: Need more power!

    MTK I have more of a clue than you do!!
    AMA # 126183
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    RE: Need more power!

    Please "gentlemen" remember why we are here. [8D]

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    RE: Need more power!

    Interesting thread. Have you calculated what your all up weight is going to be? The TBM site shows 56.5 oz/square inch wing loading at 23.21 pounds flying weight and notes that weight estimate is at "lowest possible" weight possibly using glow engines, no pilot, extra accessories, etc. I'm curious as to how this project ends up.
    Sometimes, things are exactly as they appear to be.


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