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Today's gas no problem... NO way...

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Old 03-31-2012, 11:06 PM
  #1
av8tor1977
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Default Today's gas no problem... NO way...

It has been repeatedly said here in the forum that with up to date carbs and internal parts, that today's gas, whether it has ethanol or whatever additives will not harm the fuel system.

I have also said, that being a person that repairs small engines as a sideline, and a mechanic for 40+ years that this is totally and entirely untrue. As a modeler with numerous gasoline powered airplanes, I once again state, it is not true that today's gasoline does not cause problems with our fuel systems, as I have experienced many, many problems with the fuel systems in my airplanes, which is why I went to using my special "storage fuel".

Why am I writing all this? Because I had an interesting experience recently. I have a McCulloch 32cc powered weedeater. I have very few weeds here in the desert, and it gets little use. I rebuilt the carb, replaced the fuel lines, and had it all tuned up and running perfectly two months ago. When I went to use it the other day, the fuel lines were questionable, and the carb had to be rebuilt again. It wouldn't run properly until I rebuilt the carb, THAT HAD JUST BEEN REBUILT TWO MONTHS PREVIOUS.

Then a friend of mine got himself involved in a project that ended up needing a chain saw. I told him I had one, but that it hadn't been run in 5 years. He needed one quickly, so I ran home to see how much work it would take to get mine running. It is a Craftsman 3.7 ci chainsaw, that had been last run 5 years ago, and left with the fuel in it. I looked into the tank, and the gasoline had pretty much evaporated and left an oily sludge in the tank. In desperation, I dumped some acetone in the tank, shook it around, waited 5 minutes and then dumped it out. I then put some regular premix in the tank, put a shot down the carb to prime it, and to my amazement, it started and ran perfectly.

FIVE YEAR OLD GASOLINE - NO FUEL SYSTEM DAMAGE.

TODAY'S GASOLINE - FUEL SYSTEM DEGRADATION/DAMAGE IN TWO MONTHS.

Just my 2 cents and personal experience guys....

AV8TOR


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Old 04-01-2012, 01:59 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

i dont know how anything even runs on this water down so called gas they call.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:06 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

Ya never know. I've a Homelite XL chain saw bought new in 1978 (now 34 yrs old) that gets used about twice a year. The only maintenance it has ever had is chain sharpening and one new chain. It is almost always dry of fuel when needed so the fuel evaporates between uses and has never failed to start easily upon refueling. Admittedly, it is the exception as I've done my share of carb and line rebuilding on other stuff.

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Old 04-01-2012, 06:52 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

I suspect your old Mac chainsaw had the old fuel line. I ran into the same thing on several Husky chainsaws. The line simply becomes jelly with the new fuel. I have found the same with some of the older Stihl saws and total replacement of the line
is required. Just as well do the carb at the same time. In many cases it requires a dealer part as the lines are specially formed and it may cost more than the saw/weedie, etc. is worth.
The new fuel does cause problems with my Honda 450 ATV as it causes deposits around the fuel needle in the carb which must be screwed down and back into adjustment as the machine will backfire on compression when left with the deposits. My Honda dealer turned me on to this. I have been adding a little Sea Foam to the gas and so far it seems to work.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:53 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

Nice thing here in the big town of Elk City, the gas pumps are labeled to show which ones have ethenol and which ones are all gas. The newest station in town even has a sepperate nozzle with a yellow handle to show it is E-85. I wonder how they sell any of it though. It's only .05 a gallon less and has the same octane rating as the regular. Are you also saying that even the all gas mix is not wht it was 10 years ago? i would not be supprised. Everybody is trying to save a buck.

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Old 04-01-2012, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

One thing is very clear whenever one of these discussions come up. Some parts of the country have problems with fuels, some do not! It doesn't seem to matter whether the fuels contain ethanol or not .... problem fuels are problem fuels. I feel lucky to live in a part of our country where these problems seem to be at a minimum.

We all know that modern gasoline formulas are a mix (cocktail) of many different compounds .... any MSDS sheet will show up to 35 different hydrocarbon products that can be mixed to be called gasoline. It does seem that adding ethanol to the cocktail increases the problems, especially if the formula is already one prone to problems.

Here in my area, all of our fuels come by pipeline from refiners in Texas and Oklahoma. These fuels seem to have few problems. It would be curious to trace the problem fuels back to their refiner and maybe a pattern could be established. Florida and other states in the SE seem to be especially hard hit by fuel problems. Northern states, not so much.

Just some thoughts, not a solution. But if a guy knew the fuels in his area were especially bad for small engines and their carbs he could use alternate fuels and possibly ward off some aggravation. For the people that continue to point the finger at ethanol as the sole source of the problem .... good luck as it just ain't so.

One last thing ..... gas formulated for mixing with ethanol at the end point will usually have a different formula than gas mixed to be marketed as is. Could this be a contributing factor to fuel problems?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: daveopam

Nice thing here in the big town of Elk City, the gas pumps are labeled to show which ones have ethenol and which ones are all gas.
Just exactly what is "all gas"?
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Truckracer

One thing is very clear whenever one of these discussions come up. Some parts of the country have problems with fuels, some do not! It doesn't seem to matter whether the fuels contain ethanol or not .... problem fuels are problem fuels. I feel lucky to live in a part of our country where these problems seem to be at a minimum.

We all know that modern gasoline formulas are a mix (cocktail) of many different compounds .... any MSDS sheet will show up to 35 different hydrocarbon products that can be mixed to be called gasoline. It does seem that adding ethanol to the cocktail increases the problems, especially if the formula is already one prone to problems.

Here in my area, all of our fuels come by pipeline from refiners in Texas and Oklahoma. These fuels seem to have few problems. It would be curious to trace the problem fuels back to their refiner and maybe a pattern could be established. Florida and other states in the SE seem to be especially hard hit by fuel problems. Northern states, not so much.

Just some thoughts, not a solution. But if a guy knew the fuels in his area were especially bad for small engines and their carbs he could use alternate fuels and possibly ward off some aggravation. For the people that continue to point the finger at ethanol as the sole source of the problem .... good luck as it just ain't so.

One last thing ..... gas formulated for mixing with ethanol at the end point will usually have a different formula than gas mixed to be marketed as is. Could this be a contributing factor to fuel problems?
I agree entirely. What I have had to do here in the Tucson, Arizona area is use what I call a "Storage Fuel". It is Coleman Camp fuel, mixed at 20:1 with Pennzoil for Air Cooled engines, and a dash of Sta-Bil just for "good measure". I run my engines on this fuel after flying, and then leave it in the tank. No more fuel system problems doing this.... I DO NOT fly with Coleman's, and please let's not turn this into another "Coleman" or "Avgas" debate.

AV8TOR
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

Here is Wisconsin, we have the worst gas in the country....10% ethnol, different gas for winter and summer. That being said... for 7 years now a have been using this gas with
Lawnboy ashles and have NEVER had a gas related problem with any of my Zenohas, Qaudras and a CRRC 50. I just used up gas I purchased last September!

Chris923...


PS, No will will never use syntetic oil.....seen what SOME have done to there engines!
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:07 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

HERE in the northeast , i think their using 5% ethanol . still it rots rubber lines and really the only thing it does is help the farmers
a little .
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

10% seems to be standard here in New England, have never seen 5%, and I do fill up occasionally in the Portland area. I run Irving gasoline with 10% Ethanol in my planes and cars without issue.
Pete
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

Hi, I found a trick that was in Model airplane news or Model aviation, Can't remember, but it works. Use a 5 gal can and get 4 gal of 89 or 93 Gasoline, whatever you use and put 1 gallon of WATER in with it. Shake it up a lot or if if you prefer put half these quantities in to make shaking easier. shake it a long time, this will attach the Ethanol to the water and separate from the Gas. Let it sit 8 hours minimum or just do the next step the next day. The water will sink to the bottom as will the Ethanol .After all this, pour slowly or better yet, siphon off 3.5 gal and leave the rest for waste. the resulting fuel will be free of Ethanol. I put a tap on the bottom of my shake can and pour from the bottom tap into a clear cup until there is no water as it sinks in the cup with fuel and is quite noticeable. Any Pilots will understand as you must remove water from the tanks in wings and such the same way. I remember reading a article about South American RC flying and what they have to do because there fuel is worse. hope this helps. Blake K
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:25 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

I've had some issues in my plane but not in equipment recently. I have an Echo weedie that I use around the house a lot, been sitting since probably October with a full tank of fuel, pulled it out last weekend and ran 3/4 of that through the engine and it ran just fine, starting the first time was interesting as the air filter seemed to be plugged or something but it ran fine after blowing that out.

Flew my gas plane new years day, engine ran fine, tried to run it mid february I think and the regulator diaphragm was stiff as heck and leaked fuel out the carb...
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

I can't really blame the ethanol for sure. I think there are other additives in certain areas that are the culprit.

Having said that, note that most the two stroke manufacturers that I know of don't recommend fuel with ethanol in it, for the very basic fact that ethanol is hygroscopic. And once it accumulates moisture, this doesn't mix well with the oil in our two stroke mixes....

AV8TOR
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:53 PM
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ether way it sound like most don't want Ethanol in their Fuel

Jim
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:01 PM
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it's not a probem if the 2 stroke oil is ethanol compatible....
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:33 PM
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

Get ready, if you dont like 10% Ethanol, you will HATe what our friendly EPA is shoving down our throats next.

www.ilcorn.org/daily-update/411-epa-to-allow-15-percent-ethanol-in-gasoline/
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jezmo


Quote:
ORIGINAL: blakeketcham

Hi, I found a trick that was in Model airplane news or Model aviation, Can't remember, but it works. Use a 5 gal can and get 4 gal of 89 or 93 Gasoline, whatever you use and put 1 gallon of WATER in with it. Shake it up a lot or if if you prefer put half these quantities in to make shaking easier. shake it a long time, this will attach the Ethanol to the water and separate from the Gas. Let it sit 8 hours minimum or just do the next step the next day. The water will sink to the bottom as will the Ethanol .After all this, pour slowly or better yet, siphon off 3.5 gal and leave the rest for waste. the resulting fuel will be free of Ethanol. I put a tap on the bottom of my shake can and pour from the bottom tap into a clear cup until there is no water as it sinks in the cup with fuel and is quite noticeable. Any Pilots will understand as you must remove water from the tanks in wings and such the same way. I remember reading a article about South American RC flying and what they have to do because there fuel is worse. hope this helps. Blake K
Someone showed me that if you put the fuel in a clear "fuel proof" container, to mix it, you can siphon off every last drop of the water from the bottom and waste NO fuel at all. Again, I'm not going to admit to doing that but I do know it works. I also know that the resulting gasoline doesn't damage diaphragms. It does drop the octane by approximately 1.5 to 2 points so if you start with 93 octane you should wind up with at least 91 which is more than enough for most of our little sparkers.

You also end up with gasoline that has a lot of suspended and dissolved water, lower Reid vapour pressure and Volatility thats up the pole.

When you now start to experience corrosion in your engines, poor starting and very erratic running, be sure to blame your cleverness


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Old 04-04-2012, 04:50 AM
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Nah, just add a bottle of HEET to the gas, It will be fine!
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:12 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

or try the following, as it may nvere have been done before.


leave the E10 gasoline alone. mix in your E10 com[patible 2 stroke oil and go fly
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

eh screw it, just get colemans and be done with it
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:38 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

I was at the hardware store yesterday and they wanted $13.95 for a gallon of Colemans. You can get good glow fuel for that kind of money.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:53 AM
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Default RE: Today's gas no problem... NO way...

WHOA, thats just as bad as kerosene.  I got Wildcat 15% glow for just under $18 at the LHS. 

BTW I was joking about Colemans Naptha.
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