tomfiorentino

Here is the thing though guys. Looking at the problem in its totality, if you had to pick ONE reason that contributes MOST to the problem...and only one....what would it be? But you have to follow the bouncing ball back as far as you can to the real contributor of the problem. For example, you can't just say "China because its cheaper." You have to ask why 5 times...get further up stream until you can't go any further...why is China cheaper or why to whatever you are thinking but just apply that test to it.

What ONE thing contributes MOST to the problem?

I mean, it seems as most agree that the China stuff is cheap and you can't get replacement parts etc. So, is that what we are afraid to compete with...a country that makes cheap stuff with no replacement parts support? Is it really hard for the talent pool of the US to compete with "cheap China stuff" on a purely intellectual/technical expertise basis? Is it really hard for the US to compete from a purely manufacturing process expertise basis? A natural resources basis?

Why? Seems like we can win that game every time if we wanted to...what's wrong?

Tom

captinjohn

One good emgine that is built in the USA is a Harley Davidson....it comes with wheels and can be a lot of fun! Capt,n

rgburrill

Any time I see something like this I like to do som simple verification of facts.
Fact - Cermark, the US Importer, has a complete list of the parts they do supply - the two you want aren't listed on those 5 pages. Can you not read?
Fact - the MLD FAQs and Customer support web pages tell you to send your engine in for repair - oh wait, you are trying to cobble their parts on to your "Other Engine".

Determination- YOUR problem is YOU, not either the importer or MLD engines.

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

rgburrill < funny how I'm looking out for you my fellow flyer and you give me ***** about it, smart, so, I have been in this hobby long enough to know I have to believe that you are a friend of some-sort some way of Cermark,, see the link below, I don't see 5 pages, I don't see parts, if they have the parts then why didn't they sell me the Reed Assembly, I have done business with them before

when I asked the guy if he had the Reed in stock he told me (quote)> "we do not stock parts, we had to unscrew the bolts and remove the Reed to measure it for you", then he told me I could get the parts if I order them from china
I even asked him to sell me a used Reed Assembly off a damaged Engine that was returned, I was told they don't have any, funny they don't have any used Engines with all the complaints

BTW, I have been working on Engines of all kinds since I was 12 years old, I own my own Milling Machine and Lathe, if I want to buy a part and put it on another engine that is not made any more that is my business, sorry if you disagree,,,, strike that, I could care less if you disagree

http://www.cermark.com/products/MLD-...LD%252d35.html

oh gee, if I didn't know how to read I wouldn't have started this thread now would I, the really problem is people like you that don't demand the seller to stock parts, and for further verification I didn't say anything against MLD Engines

BTW, you spelled some wrong

Jim

Hinckley Bill

My Feedback: (569)

The fact of the matter is we Americans want to have it all....

We want lots of "stuff" to play with

We want that stuff to be cheap, cheap, cheap.....even if that means the only place that can make it at the price we're willing to pay is a third world country

We want to keep our high paying job while pushing our friends and neighbors out of theirs when their company can't compete with third world produced products

Decide what you want folks......a solid, middle class for the many at a slightly increased cost to all of us or a small group of rich folks and lots of folks barely hanging on by a thread

Granpooba

My Feedback: (5)

Engine may be USA made, but you had better check the rest of the parts.

A friend once toured Harley's factory and was amazed at the number of parts boxes stamped JAPAN. Also when you buy an accessory, on the back of the package I found that it is usually stamped, made in Taiwan.

Just looked at the map and failed to find Japan or Taiwan bordering any of our 50 states.

PTERODACTYL

My Feedback: (3)

I agree with earlwb. I just went to the john Deere dealer this Friday to get a part for my 675b skid steer loader manufactured from 1997 to 2005. The part is not available in the USA. The reason why is because any parts that are warehoused in the USA are taxed, so companies will not warehouse parts anymore in this country. I was also told that caterpillar is the same way. The part has to be special order directly from the factory.
Fifty percent of our tax dollars each year now go to just paying the interest on the national debt, NO money goes to paying down on the balance of that debt. So our government has even less money to spend to run this country each year. The government is desperate for money and all of us are being held up for this money. We can all expect things to get much worse.
There is no problem with buying direct from china, they are good people and are more then happy to serve our needs.

“FIRE OUR CURRENT PRESEDENT!�
I am.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

MDL engines were designed to be throw aways. If you had chosen and OS or Saito glow engine than no problem in obtaining parts.

Tarasdad

Yep, tax laws were changed a while back and now businesses have to pay taxes on all merchandise sitting on their shelves and in their warehouses.

Teachu2

My Feedback: (133)

I recently opened a MLD-28cc that I had sitting in my workshop for a couple of years, and found that the prop hub was cracked. Not an unheard-of issue with ANY manufacturer - it may well have looked fine when it went into the box, yet with temperature changes released some stress as a fracture. OTOH, it may have left China that way. I've read of such issues with similar engines that cost much more, and my other MLD-28cc has been great.

I didn't have a receipt - the LHS I'd bought it from is gone - but simply put a note in with it and shipped it to Cermark. They replaced the prop hub, assembled and test-ran the engine, and shipped it back. Time: less than 3 weeks. Cost: just the UPS down to them.

Cermark tries pretty hard. They are NOT in the "supply" business - but they took care of me without hesitation.

Couch-pilot

I've always stuck with brand names... K&B ( as far as I know American...) Some older Fox's, etc. The K&B's were some of my favorites...ran some of those 'till the bearings exploded. And dependable!

Had a Magnum .40 that was terrible....

As for foreign engines... O.S. Y.S. , Rossi's, Merco's, Webra's.

China can keep their stuff - price or not.

Case in point, tools...Jacobs USED to make their drill chucks here - China now. Quality is so bad our local distributors in Ontario don't want to sell them to us. I have some older Jacobs "Superchucks" made in the USA - absolutely bullet-proof, and dead true as the day I unwrapped them.

Dollars are $$$s, but I'd rather put my coin into something that will last...

EGRUNE

My Feedback: (10)

SYSSA 30cc, cant beat it.

drube

Engine may be built in the USA but some of the parts inside are not.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Very little about a Harley is made in the USA since the 60's!

Whoever thinks they are made in USA has not worked on one.

captinjohn

I am working on a 2005 Sporster. All the bolt and allen fittingssizes seem to be standard american sizes. It sure is american in design...not like rice burners. I suppose someone is going to tell me the HD acessary book with hundreds of parts are all made in foreign lands. So far the seat and other parts have a part no on them and says Harley Davison stamped on the parts. I have read about the progress on the V twins...all of them. The twin cam engine is one of the best. It sure is not a China made product. Capt,n

drube

Rice Burners...LOL! Just because the parts have HD stamped on them means nothing anymore... You're correct about the twin cam design not being a chinese design... More like Japanese. Also I believe that HD has been working with Porsche/ German designers for years...

3136

That's funny, why do they rattle themselves to bits after 20 hours
There is a good reason Harley riders carry a tool kit.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

V-Rod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_VRSC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson

Pippin

Cheap labour in China killed lots of jobs but created far more new opportunities.
Actually, I do not know one person who would like to assemble ipods and other gadgets. Or is there anyone who would like to work in an ARF factory covering model planes day and night?

WhiteRook

My Feedback: (38)

the trading with china thing is SO FAR OUT OF CONTROL , because of 40 years and so many of our administrations mishandling of it and the borrowing of so much money from them , WHICH SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN DONE! WE KISS EM and they laugh at us.

tomfiorentino

Heck no! Not when you pay people to sit home! Now let me see....who does that?

Tom

Corvette50

My Feedback: (2)

This is a real interesting post. I can see your frustration in your parts not being ready to ship the next day, but really what's the problem ordering from China?
Aside from waiting 5 or so days for shipping there really isn't anything difficult about ordering from China, and aside from all the never ending negative posts I read in the forums about their quality or lack of US standards, the truth is China is actually putting out quite a few quality products.

Super Tigre engines are now made in China, along with Great Plane's ARF models. Iwill say that around 75% of the items in our hobby are all from China,in one respect or another.
The people who bring up politics when explaining why we chose to buy components that aren't from the US is simple and we all know it. The price, is the truth, and as for quality well that's debatable to who owns the component. I had an O.S. .40 FP that was a piece of garbage, even with all the O.S. high quality hype. I then bought an ASP .61, and the engine was amazing in performance and quality, and comes from China as we all know. My secondO.S. was a .40SF ABC and it performed great, but by the time I took the step to buy it I was already tainted by the FP for trusting O.S.The truth is quality is an opinion to us in this hobby. Let me explain. We have O.S.,Super Tigre, Saito, DA, ect.. forums where someone posts an issue with their engine hoping they will find an answer to their issue, but if they don't you know what their thinking of that engines manufacturer and you guessed it quality. I know everyone in this hobby has different opinions about every brand it's what makes us unique an knowledgeable. The fact is some would love to buy a DA engine, but have a budet for MLD engine. They both do the same thing one is quite a bit less then the other, and if the engine performs the same as the US engine then the person buying the DA branded motor bought allot of hype.

How many of our engines be it gas, ornitroaren't manufactured by machines? China has the ability to purchase and use those same machines, and honestly are. You are finding many more ISO certified Chinese factories to support the demand for higher quality production. ASP,and JBA are two currently cerified facilitys. China also doesn't have patent laws like we do for intellectual rights. Have you seen the Walkera Devention 12, it's a mirror image of JR's new 11 channel system. I have one an it performs as well as any JR I have owned for around $250 less!!

I'll speak the honest truth, and many may have an issue with it, but like I said I'm being truthful. If I can save almost a $100 per engine I buy, and it performs as designed, I have no problem ordering from anywhere overseas. I have a JBA 140AR engine for sale right now, and will put it up against an O.S in qualtiy and performance any day. The best part is I can buy a plane and engine for the price of just the O.S. engine.

I'm not the only one who thinks like that. All we have to do is read the posts in this and every other forum to see it. The fixation we have for publicly blaming a brand or manufacturing location is amazing. I can understand frustration, but we all know in this hobby you will need parts at some time, and if the engine is Chinese you will most likely be ordering overseas. It's the type of animal you bought.

China isn't the problem, an politics are more for arguing. It's price and value for your dollar. This hobby is disposable income driven, and with that people will always look for the path of least resistance to do the same thing without investing a house payment. Honestly it's a very practical way to think. I would much rather lose a $100 motor, than a $500 one in a crash.

Think about it..

the Wasp

My Feedback: (1)

""Think about it""

I'm thinking Fuji right now

AJsToyz

JBA15g. Wrong size carb, bad mufflers, weak rods no compensation to consumer
JC 28cc Broken cranks, kind of getting getting compensated, pay 100 bucks and trade in your engine for a JC30
RCGF's loosing the prop hubs, I believe the customer ate those
MT engines , some good the others really really bad!

These are just a few that I know of and I'm sure there are many more. I did not mention certain Chinese engines because the others I know of worked with there retailers and tried to make things right.

Are there failures on all brands? Yes
Do they try to make things right? Most manufacturers do
Do some brands screw things up more than others? YES!!!

Now how much did it cost to crash and did that saving cost you an aircraft?

If I want to gamble I will go to a casino. When I go out flying I don't want to wonder if or when my engine will fail.

I did purchase two Chinese engines that ran very well, but after following the forums for the past few years, not willing to take any more chances.

captinjohn

A quote: I would much rather lose a $100 motor, than a $500 one in a crash.

Think about it..
<hr />
I would rather save a $300-$500 dollar airplane instead of crashing it because of a cheap China made engine. There are only a couple China made engines I would/have considered. Capt,n