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  1. #51

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Gas:
    either DA or DLE. I have both and see no difference other than a polished case and slight weight advantage with DA
    Personally I think DA is a little over priced but that's just me


    GLow:
    OS is top in my opinion, have had dozens for years with zero failures
    second is Saito for me

    By the way, I'm still always amazed at the torture glow engines can take and seemingly run indefinately. Pretty impressive for motors so small. I mainly fly gas only at this point but I still love glow engines.

  2. #52
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Interesting thread indeed and most interesting for the fact that it hasn't been the usual magnet for dealers to come out with the usual "my brand is best"

    Banter aside, claiming that one "brand" is better than another is highly subjective and should probably be seen as such. Even the most touted manufacturers have come out with duds and the less respected ones have made decent engines.*
    My personal view is that the "best engine" is one we gain confidence in after a while for trouble free and reliable service.
    For me, it is one of a pair of G62 Lite that I bought from Ralph Cunningham and now powers my Extra 300*flawlessly

  3. #53
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    I haven't been on this forum for a few days and it is interesting to see where this thread has headed in that time.

    I will clarify a couple of things in my earlier post.
    When I placed a certain European brand down the list. it was because of experience right here in my own backyard. That brand is nicely machined and it runs very strongly but it doesn't seem to do it for long. To me that is not a good quality. When I forst got hold of that brand, I was actually very impressed with the quality of the finish and power of the product. Unfortunately it was not until some run time had occured that the problems showed up.

    In the case of the 116cc. here are some factual case histories.
    I sponsor a few pilots here in West Australia (and a couple on the East Coast also). This is why I get to build so much and why I get so many run hours up on engines I own.

    In the case of one particular pilot, (who is an IMAC Purist and ONLY flies IMAC routines). He has 2 x "100cc" Yak airframes, they have 108" wingspan and Fully built they weigh 11kg dry.
    The first of his airframes was initially powered by an early version of a Chinese "built and sold under many different names" 100cc. I had personally made that engine out of 3 different engines supplied to me by the factory (It took that many to get enough good parts to make one acceptable one). It ran reliably for over 100 hours of IMAC flying but lacked the necessary power curve to get him past Sportsman. It got replaced by a YDA-112 (Direct from my shop and from the exact same batch that a certain Aussie based European brand dealer also had and raved about until he took over the European brand he now sells - the same person who felt a need to advertise that he would trade in DA's on "his" brand). That engine ran reliably with zero maintenance other than an annual change of spark plugs and an annual carb diaphragm change as preventative maintenance for over 300 hours in that same airframe. It too lacked the power for that same airframe to get the pilot past Advanced IMAC and into the current "snapfest" that is the Unlimited IMAC routine.

    At that time, I paid a very high price (to help out a person who turned out to be not much of a friend) for some "European brand" 116cc (along with some other product from that same supplier) and we installed the 116 into the airframe. It flew very strongly and was powerful enough for the airframe to perform the current unlimited sequence. But power alone is not enough. It needs reliability and real service support also.

    The first 116 ran for 6 hours before the engine seized due to an apparent "foreign object" jamming between the crank and the crtankcase. That foreign object turned out to be a piece of wrist pin bearing. I paid for the replacement engine which ran for 21 hours before the wrist pin bearings wore out completely in that one too. Ironically that was the week before an IMAC comp so that comp was messed up. It was replaced with a rebuilt "first" engine (the one that lasted 6 hours) with a new crank assembly, pistons, wrist pins, rings, ring retainers Gaskets etc (Yep- you buy them all individually). That rebuilt engine lasted another 24 hours before the wrist pins packed up completely. In that airframe the engine has now been replaced with a US manufactured 120cc engine that has gone well past the 50 hour mark and is performing flawlessly and powerfully.

    The second identical airframe with the same pilot has only ever had one brand of engine in it (also the European 116cc). The first 116cc in it burnt its wrist pins out in under 20 hours also and was replaced by the overhauled second engine from the airframe above (again, new crank asembly, pistons, cylinders, etc) it only lasted just over 20 hours and it was shipped back to the Dealer (Located on the East Coast and posts here by the name of apalsson) in April. That failure occured the day before our National Championships here (The DA boys thought it was pretty funny). Last week we got a "replacement" engine for it that the pilot has not been able to get running (I wonder of the dealer has spoken with the pilot yet - the pilot was not happy yesterday as it seems there is a carb or an ignition problem with the replacement).

    All the overhauls were done under the instruction of the factory (They sent specific information directly to me regarding the requirements).

    So you tell me - what is the better quality product? The one that seems to have a life of 20 hours or the one that lasts for hundreds of hours in the same airframe with all other things being equal.

    3W, BME and DA all the way. Proven power, Proven reliability and Proven support equals much cheaper in the long term.

  4. #54
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    My concerns are not limited to just those 116's mentioned above. There are pilots who have had problems with other sizes here too (Some came through me, some were supplied by others).

    As someone alluded to earlier in this thread - a Quality product is one that lets you go out and fly when you want to.

    It can be the shiniest, the best machined, the most powerful but if it is not reliable, it is called scrap metal.

    Our MAAA National Championships were flown and all places in all Giant Scale classes were won by only 4 brands of engine (DA were the majority brand but they also dominate the IMAC scene here in numbers of engines flown, Followed by 3W, with 2 DLE's and 1 YDA also taking places).

    So what is a quality engine?
    Reliability

    But cost also comes into it. For example, If you pay $1000 for an engine that remains reliable and does the job you want for 300 hours and you pay $500 for an engine that remains reliable and does the job you want for only 150 hours - both are quality engines. Which is the best choice depends on other factors.

    If it does the job you want, the power curve is acceptable
    If you expect to replace the engine after 150 hours, the lower priced option is acceptable however if you want to fly for over 150 hours, the higher priced option is perhaps a better choice.

    This is a hobby after all. I enjoy the building and a little flying nowadays. What I dislike is having to do the work when it is caused by a problem created by a supply chain that charges high prices for apparent quality.

    Addendum to this
    I got to see the final replacement of the 116 that had been supplied by the dealer directly to my pilot (The dealer is too childish to speak directly to me, maybe he owes me some money). The reason the replacement engine didn't run?

    The reed block was assembled incorrectly and the reeds were sitting away from the block in the area near the mounting screws. Interestingly, the engine showed signs of having been stripped and assembled by someone away form the factory. The sealant was a different color to that usually used by the factory and the cylinders and plugs supplied had oviously been run for some time. Perhaps it had had a previous reed related issue. I guess we wil never find out the truth from the dealer.

    So I guess an addition to the measure of quality would be
    Reliable running
    Time that the engine runs reliably compared to the purchase price
    Reliability and quality of the local dealership.

    Here in Australia, that particular European brand has so far shown itself to be unreliable and supplied by a "bit of a d!ck" of a supplier however I also know that in different (and possibly cooler) climates the brand is ok. The main agent (in the world - not here in Australia) for the brand has also got a huge amount of knowledge on how to make them run reliably and has shared a lot of that information with me. If I was ever to purchase that brand again (highly unlikely as there are other choices here with excellent dealer backup) I would buy from that (European based) dealer as he does in fact know his stuff and the chances of success would most likely be much higher.

    3W, BME and DA all the way. Proven power, Proven reliability and Proven support equals much cheaper in the long term.

  5. #55

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Glow: 1. YS
    2. Irvine
    3. Saito

    Gas: 1. 3W
    2. Taurus
    3. MVVS
    4. DA
    5. BME
    6. DLE

  6. #56
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    1) Fox Manufacturing
    2) MVVS
    3) Quadra
    4) homemade trimmer engine conversions, mostly Poulan etc.
    5) NGH jury still out on longevity though as they are sort of new on the market
    6) DLE

    I would list DA or Syssa but I don't own one of them yet.

    For glow
    1) Fox
    2) MVVS
    3) Enya
    4) Webra
    5) Irvine (UK versions)
    6) HP
    oops, I forgot
    7) Rossi
    8) Picco




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  7. #57
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Hi Earl,+1 for no OS mention on quality list.Last week I saw a 46 AX peeled liner.Cant believe.What kind of quality engine?Only carbs of OS great but no rest.
    GlowHead Brotherhood #31

  8. #58

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?


    ORIGINAL: Turk1

    Hi Earl,+1 for no OS mention on quality list.Last week I saw a 46 AX peeled liner.Cant believe.What kind of quality engine?Only carbs of OS great but no rest.
    While Im normally on your side Turk Youve crossed the line now [:-] . I too have seen a 46ax with a peeled liner But it also had that blue tinge on the inside where it had been abused within a inch of its life . Its hard to know what some people do to their engines and then expect them to last . I have 8 maybe more O.S.s and each one has been faultless . Sometimes someone will get a dud but overall there great . You just have to open one up to see the quality . I even have 2 x55s ( the one where the head bolts come loose ,Yea if u cook em ) and there cool to. Some people dont like super tigres because of there carbs but I cant figure that one out either . Saito good , magnum O.K Whatever you get give it plenty of oil and it will last for ages . I use %20 oil total and included in that at least %5 castor . Now that will get the tounges wagging. Cheers the pope

  9. #59
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Well I don't really have a bunch of OS engines myself. I have a old beat up raggedy OS Max .35 a couple of old beat OS 40FP engines, and a couple of OS FS-26's, couple of OS FS-48's, a FS-70 and a FS-91 and a OS 1.60 Gemini twin, mostly old four stroke engines which is about it for me. These are all older designs before OS went to nickle plating, so I don't feel qualified to talk much about the OS engines. I mostly tend to run other more exotic engines like Fox engines for example. I haven't dealt with any of the newer OS engines. But I really haven't had any problems with the OS engines I do have.





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  10. #60
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    For glow engines, it really depends more on the tuner/mechanic/pilot who owns and runs the engine instead of the engine itself. Many good engines have gotten a bad rap because of user error. Take the older fox designs, with their funky carbs, for example. They were good engines, but nobody besides Duke Fox could use them because nobody else understood how to.

    Enough with my history lesson. My point is, you have to know how to use the engine the right way to really get it to run good. If you constantly adjust the needle, you will deadstick more often, even with a superior engine. If you find the "sweet spot," even with a crappy engine, you won't deadstick as much. Also, proper maitenance goes a long way in keeping your engine running good
    Trees have a tendancy to grow a few feet when airplanes try to fly over them.

  11. #61
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?


    ORIGINAL: the pope


    ORIGINAL: Turk1

    Hi Earl,+1 for no OS mention on quality list.Last week I saw a 46 AX peeled liner.Cant believe.What kind of quality engine?Only carbs of OS great but no rest.
    While Im normally on your side Turk Youve crossed the line now [:-] . I too have seen a 46ax with a peeled liner But it also had that blue tinge on the inside where it had been abused within a inch of its life . Its hard to know what some people do to their engines and then expect them to last . I have 8 maybe more O.S.s and each one has been faultless . Sometimes someone will get a dud but overall there great . You just have to open one up to see the quality . I even have 2 x55s ( the one where the head bolts come loose ,Yea if u cook em ) and there cool to. Some people dont like super tigres because of there carbs but I cant figure that one out either . Saito good , magnum O.K Whatever you get give it plenty of oil and it will last for ages . I use %20 oil total and included in that at least %5 castor . Now that will get the tounges wagging. Cheers the pope
    .I cant agree with you on peeling result of insult or oil lack.Only "quality".Pls. why on earth any TT doesnt peel?
    GlowHead Brotherhood #31

  12. #62

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?


    ORIGINAL: earlwb

    Well I don't really have a bunch of OS engines myself. I have a old beat up raggedy OS Max .35 a couple of old beat OS 40FP engines, and a couple of OS FS-26's, couple of OS FS-48's, a FS-70 and a FS-91 and a OS 1.60 Gemini twin, mostly old four stroke engines which is about it for me. These are all older designs before OS went to nickle plating, so I don't feel qualified to talk much about the OS engines. I mostly tend to run other more exotic engines like Fox engines for example. I haven't dealt with any of the newer OS engines. But I really haven't had any problems with the OS engines I do have.
    Gee, what do you consider a "bunch of engines"? I count 10 OS engnes in your post!

    K-Bob. The K is silent. \"The only time you can have too much fuel is if you are on fire\"

  13. #63
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Some guys have just about one of every example they make including extra ones that they run. I also can't compete with the guy for example, who has used and run several OS AX series engines, as he has a lot of experience in how they work.

    My problem is I don't have any of the "Newer" OS engines, all mine are the older engines. "Bunch" was probably a bad word choice on my part.



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  14. #64

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    New to this game who makes Taurus engines? Are they USA?

  15. #65

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Southgate Aero i.e. Bill Oberdieck made Taurus engines. CNC machined in his own shop. Much to my dismay, it looks like they may no longer be available. I have a Taurus 52, and as others have said, it is a work of art. Its a very strong engine, and is probably the smoothest running engine of its size period.

  16. #66

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    ZENOAH
    OS 2C
    OS 4 Stroke
    Thunder Tiger 4stroke
    DLE 30
    DLE55

    Never had an engine that did not run the was it was intended in 30 years..........The DLE's are running perfect but only time will tell of the longevity,fit and finish is vary good for a cast motor. I do run all gas a 32:1

    1 engines that I did not keep long was an ASP 40............bad carb 20 some odd years ago.

  17. #67

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Zenoah has to be just about the most bullet proof. Set it up and just fly the snot out of it. Day in and day out without having to fuss with it. Just use good oil and ethanol free 91 octane. Having RC IGN do his magic makes them superb ! -just my experience and 2 cents

  18. #68

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?


    ORIGINAL: heavydriver

    Zenoah has to be just about the most bullet proof. Set it up and just fly the snot out of it. Day in and day out without having to fuss with it. Just use good oil and ethanol free 91 octane. Having RC IGN do his magic makes them superb ! -just my experience and 2 cents
    Have to agree about Zenoah..........3 years on my G26........been screaming the snot out of her MAG ignition........ not sure I would even know how to fix the Magneto if she ever failed.

  19. #69
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    After DLE20 which is my first gas engine, these are the gas engines, I'd love to use.

    1. DA
    2. 3W
    3. O.S.
    4. ZDZ
    5. Zenoah
    6. Mintor
    7. Syssa
    8. Roto

    Mody
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  20. #70
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Just Engines Not "Best quality" List !

    1. Zenoah
    2. Rcmk
    3. Quickdraw
    4. Cmb
    5. Bzm
    6. Sg
    7. Mathe
    8. Fudji
    9. Chung Yang

    subscribe then I would be very happy! http://www.youtube.com/user/TheJacke08?feature=mhee

  21. #71

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    I am a die hard Quadra fan 2-65s 2-75s 1-100 1-100 twin 1-200 twin,But I do like the Zen G-23 and 26,I have not had ANY problems with these engines.
    keep your powder dry and pray the creeks dont rise.

  22. #72

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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    I don't do glow anymore.  My list after having Syssa, (3)DLE, (2) Mintor and DA: 

    1) DA-120
    2) DA-60
    3) DA-170

  23. #73
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    Well I'm really glad I found this thread. I have been at a toss up between a zen 26 and a DLE 30. I have never owned a gasser yet ( although I have been flying glow for many years. ) I understand its all opinion, but it's nice to be able to see all of yours. Very helpful thread to me. Thanks, Steve.
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  24. #74
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?


    ORIGINAL: zx32tt

    Southgate Aero i.e. Bill Oberdieck made Taurus engines. CNC machined in his own shop. Much to my dismay, it looks like they may no longer be available. I have a Taurus 52, and as others have said, it is a work of art. Its a very strong engine, and is probably the smoothest running engine of its size period.
    I spoke with Bill not to long ago and he was making them, not sure if that has changed though.
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  25. #75
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    RE: Your list of hightest quality engines?

    My short list

    1. Brison (USA)
    2. Quadra
    3. Zenoah


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