microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

I recently acquired (from a post here on RCU) an Extra 260 (Patti Wagstaff), used. It's about 100" wingspan, built from a kit, and - supposedly - never flown. This plane was built about 12 or more years ago, but the guy I bought it from (not the original owner) had no info on the engine, other than it's a good sized 2 stroke gasser which was converted to Nitro. Why converted to Nitro? He didn't know, but my guess is for more power back when Nitro was cheap.

I'd like to identify this engine - it has a red anodized body and looks to be about 70cc in size (all pics have my MT 57 next to it for comparison). I say 70cc because the exterior of the cylander of the MT 57 is 2.0 inches, and the Red engine is 2.25 inches. Of course, this is just a rought guestimate, using the volume of a cylander to calculate. The carb is a Tillotson and I've already spoekn to Tilletson carb in Ireland and ordered a carb upgrade\ refresh kit.

Does anyone know anything about this engine? Would love to know the manufacturer, model, year, etc. Maybe I can even get repalcement parts (though this engine feels very healthy compression-wise.

Also, does anyone know if or how this engine will run on 5% Nitro?? Thanks.

Mike

STUKA BARRY

Precision Eagle is the manufacturer. They were produced in the 1990's. They were ignition and glow. They also produced multicylinder engines too. The last one I saw was an inline triple.

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

That would be a precision eagle 4.2 (80 cc). They are a little heavy in todays standards, but built very strong, and were very powerfull. I helped a fellow club member with his in a Godfry Extra (1/3 scale). These are the engines that dominated TOC for a few years and sold for $750 back in the day. They also made an inline twin, and tripple. One just sold for a hair under $400 on the bay. Yes they drink about 4-6 ounces a minute. You do not even need nitro, since they will run on straight Methanol and I think it was 5% synthetic oil. The one I helped with was started on (2) glow plugs and had amazing power in the big extra.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Stuka \ Ifyflow - thanks for that. Now I'm seeing lots of info on this engine online. From what I'm seeing the Precision Eagle 4.2 is 70cc. Does that sound right to you? (would rather it be 80, but...)

So this engine was actually manufactured to run glow - yhat would explain why there's no Hall Sensor holes. And mine does have two glow plugs,though my glow plug wrench won't fit inside the side with the regular spark-plug adapter, so I don't know how I'm gonna change that plug (though it looks like it still glows - maybe I can file down a tool to fit).

Do you think this engine is powerful enough for this 100" plane? (I have yet to weigh it , but it feels heavy, probably due to the construction). And can I buy methanol? (I'll look around). I'm not expecting 3D performance - I think for that I'd need at least a DLE 111 or more.

I'm not looking forward to burning 4-6 ounces of nitro a minute! But it's good to hear that this is a powerful engine and that its' got a good reputation. One thing - the prop hub is just the single crank-shaft bolt - I'm going to look around to see if I can find an adapter that has at least 4 bolts.

Thanks again for your help.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

You will not need nitro in the fuel. Just alcohol and some oil. I would bet the engine will produce as much or more power than a DLE 111.
The engine will run cooler and just as clean as a gas engine. And the fuel won't smell. The only down side is you will use a lot of it.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Dirtybird - when you say alcohol do you mean methanol? Any ideas where I can buy that retail? (I did a quick web search and only find commercial \ wholesale so far). And would I add normal 2 stroke synthetic oil? Thanks.

wesaysoracing

i buy my methanol at the local speed shop or the local chemical supply depending on how much i need

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Yes I mean methanol. When I bought mine I got it from a speed shop, five gallons at a time.
Use good quality 2 stroke synthetic oil.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

What kind of price are we looking at for 5 gallons? And 5% synthetic oil - that's 6.4 oz per gallon, right?

btw - do you recommend hand-starting this engine, or using a starter (I have a Sullivan Megatron starter, but would need to hook it up to 24v for this engine)? When I've tried hand-staring my OS 1.60 (nitro) it's kicked back a few times - would not want that to happen in this big two stroke.

thanks.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I would not try to hand start it. I would use the megatron on 24 V.
When I had a Moki 2.1 I just flipped it backwards using the spinner. It usually started right up.
Be sure your glow plugs are good and light both of them.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Dirtybird - Thanks. And for this type of engine, should I get those wires that connect an onboard battery to the two glow-plug heads through caps that lock onto the glow plugs? (I've seen these but never used them. ) I'm guessing I'd need some kind of "Y" cable, since there are two glow-plugs. Then, once the engine starts up, do I turn that switch "off"? (just like taking the glow-plug starter stick off on smaller nitros)? If it's like regular glow plugs the combustion will keep the plug filament lit, right?

Mike

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

in this day and age with the new batteries we have I would get one A123 and hook one end of the battery to one glow plug and the other end of the battery to the other glow plug. The two glow plugs will be in series and the 3.3 V of the A123 would divide to 1.6V for each plug. The ideal starting voltage.do not hook anything to the motor chassis.
Remove the battery after it starts. Chemical action between the methanol and the metal in the glow plug keeps it lit.
Hand starting procedure if you want to try it:
Get a heavy glove for your hand
prime the engine
Flip it a few times to distribute the fuel
hook up the batteries to the glow plug
Slowly turn the motor over by hand.
When you feel a bump as you turn it over its ready.
Flip the prop backwards rapidly against its compression
Get your hand out of the way quickly.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Dirtybird - To add to what you just said, I just saw this from an older online sales blurb about this exact engine:

"The motor has a a Tilotson carb. Motor just flown this month again and ran well. Compression was too high for a heavy duty starter with a Miller reduction drive. Motor was hand started with a backwards snap of the spinner, just like starting a good quality smaller glow engine. Plenty of power and a good idle."

Thanks.

2walla

My Feedback: (10)

The carb needle seats are probably drilled out to pass the much larger flow of alcohol required to fuel the beast.. I would go to the local small engine repair shop and get a gasoline carb and order up an rcexl ignition and put it on gasoline. Also examine the single bolt prop adapter closely around the hub- There were some issues of them snapping due to poor metalurgy.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

My impression is that this engine will produce more horsepower on methanol or nitro than on gasoline. Isn't that correct? I'd like to see how it runs on Methanol and see how well it flies this 100" Extra 260. I'm thinking that, if I convert it to gas, it will effectively lose horsepower and won't be able to pull this plane (which seems heavy - haven't weighed it yet). On the other hand, if a gallon of methanol costs anywhere near a gallon of 5% Nitro ($14-15?) then I would not be able to afford feeding this engine. If methanol is $8-10 then I might do that for a while.

Am I right about methanol producing greater hp than gasoline?

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Yes. Thats why they sell it in speed shops

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

You will make more power in methanol vs. gasoline for the same engine size. You will also use twice as much(at least) methanol vs. gasoline for the same size. Make sure the oil that you get is compatible with methanol, not all two stroke oil is.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Thanks. Once I find a speed shop that sells methanol I'll check with them about the best oil.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I googled the price of methanol. The price is about $1.35/gal. Even though you use twice as much it still less than gasoline. I think I will convert my engines to use methanol.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Dirtybird - where did you see that? Can you send me the link? I just called around and the guy here on Long Island (SK Speed) sells 5 gallons for $55. Also I just read that methanol has about 1/2 of the BTU's per volume of gasoline. Are we talking about the same kind of methanol?

At that price I might as well just use 5% Nitro at $14\gal.

captinjohn

I sure am glad I found a steal on a 35cc Webra set up for Glow fuel new in the box. It even has a Carb on it for glow fuel ! Maybe I will post a couple photos of it. Capt,n

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Here is a link for methanol price
http://www.methanex.com/products/methanolprice.html

Yes methanol has 1/2 the energy level of gasoline. But it requires more than twice the methanol to make an explosive mixture with oxygen. Thats why you use twice as much methanol than gasoline.The net result is you get more power.

I think the speed shop you talked to is making excessive profit. Call some others.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

The price of Methanol will vary widely. It depends on whether it is purchased from a bulk stock .... where you have no guarantee of purity or dryness or whether you buy it in sealed containers such as 5 gal. buckets or 55 gallon drums. The sealed containers will usually be from a branded company such as VP and the purity will be stated on the label. The bulk stock dealer will guarantee the product you are buying is Methanol and not much else.

Local, low budget circle track racers usually buy Methanol from a bulk vendor at the reasonable price as their cars can tolerate a slight variation in quality. They also burn a lot of fuel in an outing so price matters! Drag racers and high budget racers will almost always use the factory sealed containers for consistency.

If I were mixing glo fuel in any quantity, I would go with the sealed containers as our smaller engines are less tolerant to moisture and other contaminants in the fuel. This is truly an example of you get exactly what you pay for!

I would expect to see an extremely wide range of prices depending on many variables that include shipping, quality, etc.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Duplicate post and I have no idea how that happened!