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Saito FG57 Fourstroke

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Old 09-12-2012, 04:56 PM
  #51
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

The big round Saito ignition sensor is a Inductive device? It is not a Hall effect.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

The big round Saito ignition sensor is a Inductive device? It is not a Hall effect.
RC Exel still uses hall sensors don't they?

Why would Saito change designs? Is the inductive devise somehow better than hall sensors?

I destroyed 2 airframes & my abused FA150 finally gave out W/my original MK I C&H Synchrospark ignition system still going strong W/all the original components except the spark plugs.

Why did they fix something that ain't broke?
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:51 AM
  #53
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Hi sr glad you came.We would like some clarification electrically speaking tho i'm not qualified to describe the thought.The fg57 manual re ignition set up is a dogs breakfast desciptionally compared to what i have read here so far.. and it confuses the average dustbin man which must be most of us,can you help in some way? it would be much appreciated,cheers mate
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi sr glad you came.We would like some clarification electrically speaking tho i'm not qualified to describe the thought.The fg57 manual re ignition set up is a dogs breakfast desciptionally compared to what i have read here so far.. and it confuses the average dustbin man which must be most of us,can you help in some way? it would be much appreciated,cheers mate

Can you post PIX of the module, leads, trigger device, etc?

EDIT: Post detailed PIX of the connectors too.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:50 AM
  #55
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

They have a new slimline sensor much different then the old style.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:58 AM
  #56
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Hi thanks no i don't think i can.I once posted a birthday nude shot of the handbrake lying on an airbed in the swimming pool at the tender age of 58,she looked alright to me and since then i have difficulty posting photos.The fg57 has a three wire setup and all wires have plugs.I have a dual core red and black wire for the battery and two red,black and white wires for the tacho and pickup sensor mounted mounted to the engine.The engine manual says this is fine,i'm worried that it is not earthed properly,hope you can help answer this question for me and others mate
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:33 AM
  #57
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Hi thanks no i don't think i can.I once posted a birthday nude shot of the handbrake lying on an airbed in the swimming pool at the tender age of 58,she looked alright to me and since then i have difficulty posting photos.The fg57 has a three wire setup and all wires have plugs.I have a dual core red and black wire for the battery and two red,black and white wires for the tacho and pickup sensor mounted mounted to the engine.The engine manual says this is fine,i'm worried that it is not earthed properly,hope you can help answer this question for me and others mate

If the connectors are like standard servo connectors, red is in the center, black is on the outside & the opposite side is either white on the sensor /tach lead or no wire on the power lead. You can't hook it up reverse polarity if the wires are as I stated.

Even is you manage to hook them up bass-ackwards there will not be a circuit so current will not flow. Think about it.

Anyway, the module signal connector is probably a Futaba "J" connector so it would be very difficult to hook it up backwqards. It probably doesn't matter if you mix up the tach/signal connector. If it does, there will be a male connector on 1 & a female on the other lead from the module. Just make sure that the sensor connector is plugged into a matching counterpart.

The power lead connection should be straight forward, red to red, black to black.

If there is a green heavy gauge wire lead, it is simple a ground from the module case to the engine block. it probably has an eye terminal on the end that is grounded to the engine. Secure it to the block W/a "star" washer between the eye & the block to assure a good ground that will be reliable.

If there is no green ground lead, the module is most likely grounded through the plug socket to the module board/case via a braided shield in the plug lead. It will not need an auxiliary ground.

C&H used to use a green ground lead on the older metal case modules as well as the grounded plug wire shield. They now have Plastic cases & rely entirely on the grounded plug wire shield tha grounds the engine block to the module board.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:36 AM
  #58
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart
On my ignition there are three wires with plugs only...where is the earth wire or is it grounded at the sensor???
When you say "is it grounded at the sensor? ", then I must understand what 'it' means.

If 'it' means the igition box itself, then "grounding" is via the shielding of the spark-plug wire to the spark plug cap.
The current goes to the spark-plug, jumps over as a spark to the ground. Ground ( The engine) is again connected
to the ignitionbox since the sparkplug is connected to the cap, which again is connected to the shield.

Somethimes, the ring around the spark plug cap might be missing, resulting in not so good connection
between Sparkplug ground, and the sparkplug cap. Then you could have a problem....it is important to keep that
ring. I think the green wire

It 'it' means the sensor, then "grounding" is the black wire in the 3-wire plug to the sensor.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:05 AM
  #59
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Some newer Saito FG engines have RCEXL ignitions (hall effect sensor) but they say "Saito" on them. The older ones had a Saito ignition made by someone else with a inductive sensor.

The old style ignition was timed at Top Dead Center while the new ones are at 28 degrees or so. The sensors are in the same postion on the crankcase but saito moved the position of the magnet.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:23 AM
  #60
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

Some newer Saito FG engines have RCEXL ignitions (hall effect sensor) but they say ''Saito'' on them. The older ones had a Saito ignition made by someone else with a inductive sensor.

The old style ignition was timed at Top Dead Center while the new ones are at 28 degrees or so. The sensors are in the same postion on the crankcase but saito moved the position of the magnet.
Holy CRAP!!!

That could explain why the engine only wanted to run at full throttle, coughing, spitting and stopping as soon as I throttled down!!!!

Arrrghh!! [:'(][:'(][:'(]
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:19 AM
  #61
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Quote:
ORIGINAL: kwik


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

Some newer Saito FG engines have RCEXL ignitions (hall effect sensor) but they say ''Saito'' on them. The older ones had a Saito ignition made by someone else with a inductive sensor.

The old style ignition was timed at Top Dead Center while the new ones are at 28 degrees or so. The sensors are in the same postion on the crankcase but saito moved the position of the magnet.
Holy CRAP!!!

That could explain why the engine only wanted to run at full throttle, coughing, spitting and stopping as soon as I throttled down!!!!

Arrrghh!! [:'(][:'(][:'(]

Boy Saito really opened a can of worms W/that!

An accident waiting to happen. If I am thinking correctly, you are running W/56* advance!

One of the reasons I prefer C&H's set-up to RCEXL & Saito's is the ring that applies to the prop hub via set screws. It allows infinate timing adjustments, but also require a degree wheel for initial set-up.

On 15% Cool Power glow fuel, I'm finding that 35* to 36* total advance makes the most power in my FA91. The FA300TTDP seems to not gains as much power beyand 28*, but the FA91S picked up 200 RPM W/7* more ignition timing advance.

kwik: Having not seen the prop hub of the Saito in hand, I assume that the hub has a pin locator? Would it be possible to change the location indicator 28* to allow you existing components to work?

If it's just a tapered collet hub you can use a degree wheel to establish the poper timing.

Use a proceedure similar to that in [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11163967]THIS POST[/link] to establish TDC. Then you could shift the prop hub to get your spark @ 28* advance.


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Old 09-13-2012, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

I need the sensors first.

Probably best to buy this one? ;

http://www.advantagehobby.com/177605/SAIG57T27/

This will take some time, I think.....
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:51 AM
  #63
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kwik

I need the sensors first.

Probably best to buy this one? ;

http://www.advantagehobby.com/177605/SAIG57T27/

This will take some time, I think.....

If the prop hub is merely a tapered collet, you should be able to use the one you have.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kwik

I need the sensors first.

Probably best to buy this one? ;

http://www.advantagehobby.com/177605/SAIG57T27/

This will take some time, I think.....

You have a PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: kwik


Holy CRAP!!!

That could explain why the engine only wanted to run at full throttle, coughing, spitting and stopping as soon as I throttled down!!!!

Arrrghh!! [:'(][:'(][:'(]

It should run something like this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdmLu13UJzs[/youtube]
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:11 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

The timing prop hub on the Saito FG series gas engines have a locating pin to position the hub correctly.

But the hub for the FG 20 with the original Saito ignition has a different hub than the FG21 with the Saito branded RCEXL ignition. The FG21 prototypes I saw had merely re-drilled FG20 hubs.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

The timing prop hub on the Saito FG series gas engines have a locating pin to position the hub correctly.

But the hub for the FG 20 with the original Saito ignition has a different hub than the FG21 with the Saito branded RCEXL ignition. The FG21 prototypes I saw had merely re-drilled FG20 hubs.
That's what I suggested to kwik during our phone conversation. Just modify any locating device on his existing prop hub (if present) for 28* less advance.

It seems that his particular combination is giving him 28* X 2 for 56* total advance. His RCEXEL hub is located for for a 28* initial advance setting while his Saito ignition module has 28* advance built in.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

The sensor on this engine can be adjusted via slotted holes.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Old Fart

The sensor on this engine can be adjusted via slotted holes.

Yes, but not 28*!

It will take a repositioning of the prop hub magnet to make his combo work.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

The RCEXL system works by retarding the ignition advance when moved at a lower rpm.

The original Saito system with the big fat inductive sensor is a advancing system.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:50 AM
  #71
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Thats a good point you make.Some people are saying they have a fixed if you like ignition system compared to variable and this is where it gets confusing...plus the early carbs and it makes you feel like gittin thge old mans brass hammer out to try and sort the problem out with you compadres..FOR A MAJOR ENGINE MANUFACTURER it can be nothing less than a major head fu#% for consumers who liked this trend and the nice sound that goes with it.As we know it ain't cheap to dip your finger in the water and the least someone could do is step in and give their paying customers some help,or direction.How long do you feel you should wade around up to your ears in crap after you pay this kind of money?apoligies to anyone who is offended.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:29 AM
  #72
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke


Quote:
ORIGINAL: w8ye

The RCEXL system works by retarding the ignition advance when moved at a lower rpm.

The original Saito system with the big fat inductive sensor is a advancing system.

I see that the FG57 prop hubs on Horizon's site make no mention of which ignition system they are compatble with.

That is an EPIC FAIL!
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:16 AM
  #73
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Why they are compatible with the Saito ignition which ever one that happens to be. Is there any other brand?
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:20 AM
  #74
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Dear Kwik,

I have been advised of the problem you are having and contacted Saito about this. Unfortunately our current in house supply of ignitions is incorrect having only the domestic Japanese version of the ignition. We will have corrected replacement ignitions here within the next five days and Advantage Hobby should be contacting you to correct this problem.

To answer some of your other questions

1. The grounding on the original unit you have is all done through the spark plug caps and no additional grounding wire is needed.
2. The grounding scheme for the incorrect replacement units you have is through the green ground wire and not through the plug caps. The two ignitions utilize totally different design philosophies and are not compatible with each other.

From Horizon's point of view I apologize for the supply problems we have made for you.

Sincerely,

Pete
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:29 AM
  #75
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Default RE: Saito FG57 Fourstroke

Thank you Pete! Very good news.
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