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New Evolution 10cc gas engine

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Old 01-22-2013, 06:36 AM
  #651
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

robby,

We did do some testing on the Twist 40 V2 and found that the engine was very well powered by it. I am not a 3D flyer, but it has plenty of thrust for it - definitely unlimited vertical. If you liked your Twist before then I think you'll like it on this engine. It's too cold here right now, otherwise I would have one of our more advanced pilots give it a whirl and report back. I think you'll be quite happy with this combo.

Hope this helps.
Jimmy

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ORIGINAL: rcrobby82


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Has anyone considered mounting this on a profile? I am kicking around getting one of these engines and putting it in a kit built OMP Katana (old) or restoring a H9 twist 40 up in the rafters.

An OS 55AX weighs 18.5 oz with muffler. The 10cc weighs 22 oz with muffler and ignition, and you still need a battery or IBEC to power the ignition. The Tech-Aero IBEC weighs about an ounce, so your looking at 23 oz minimum vs 18.5 oz. for the glow. That could be a good thing (kinda) if your profile is tail heavy.
The plans state a weight of 4Lbsbut I remember my original one being closer to 5Lbs with glow and a 10 oz tank
40-50 2c or 50-70 4c engine
46 WS
46 Length
680 Sq.In.
6.24 cubic loading

My main concern is that if I purchase this engine that I can have a 3D airframe to use it on, I am not sure if the H9 Twist will give me that performance. Since I will be laser cutting a short kit of the Katana I can make changes (longer tail moment to help with balance, ect.) before I would build it.

I wonder if the H9 crew have tested this engine on a twist?? The twist would be as easy as a recover and minor repairs.

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Old 01-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #652
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Cold?
you should be here - We lost three brass monkeys last week
I have stuff waiting to be checked out but the LiPos don't perform well at ZERO type temps.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:11 PM
  #653
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

It warmed up here, was 0 this morning.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:02 PM
  #654
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

That's our weather here in Chicago right now. It was -2 when I got up this morning. [X(]

I'm ready for May...
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:26 AM
  #655
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

O ya cold- 2 we haveing fun now R/L
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:52 AM
  #656
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

To
Pete Bergstrom
Saito, Evolution & Zenoah Manager

Pete- please tell me what rpm this engine turns a 13-8 prop, both on the ground and in the air? I see that the website says it will handle a 13-8 so I figure you must have some data to base this on, and I would like to know this because I'm thinking of putting this engine in my 40 size mustang.

Ed
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:15 AM
  #657
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Check out post 48 for more props, but we were seeing 8500 on the ground and 9600 in air with the Evolution 13x8.

Thanks,
Jimmy
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
  #658
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

I wonder what this motor on this airframe would be like.

http://www.valuehobby.com/airplanes/...k-540-arf.html

Seems with a 13x6 I could get in to the 8lb thrust range which would be borderline 3D territory.  Not sure this model has the control throws needed to be a contender.

I crammed a OS GT22 into a H-9 Katana 50 which ended up weighing 7.5 lbs AUW so you would be in the mid 6s for that model.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:04 PM
  #659
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

I doubt it will reach 8lbs of thrust. Can't recall there being any reports of 7lbs. I personally know it will do 5 3/4 and have guessed that it might do up to 6 1/4.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:11 PM
  #660
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc34074

To
Pete Bergstrom
Saito, Evolution & Zenoah Manager

Pete- please tell me what rpm this engine turns a 13-8 prop, both on the ground and in the air? I see that the website says it will handle a 13-8 so I figure you must have some data to base this on, and I would like to know this because I'm thinking of putting this engine in my 40 size mustang.

Ed
For those who really care -
the prop reading on the ground is TOTALLY independant from in the air readings .

The max power in the air is NOT the same as the max torque available .
The maximum torque available with no muffler and or a muffler or a pipe is again not the same in any of those cases
The best prop for a given type model is a case by case thing -involving the engine- prop and plane and the manner in which it is flown.
When asking about how well the engine will work for YOU- -it is necessary to include all this info.
In the case of the 13x8-on this engine - it would likely be best on a light model which was not intended to be a fast flyer.
The smaller props which allow the engine to run faster are better matched to it - for most sport applications.


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Old 01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
  #661
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

I plugged in the 10700 RPM from the video on the 13x6 and came up with the 8lb figure using the prop power calculator spreasheet.  If the motor is not capable of that power than yes, this is not the right motor for anything 3D except a 50" conversion that can stay under 4lbs.  Basically a .25 sized model.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:39 PM
  #662
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Enterprise6

I wonder what this motor on this airframe would be like.

http://www.valuehobby.com/airplanes/...k-540-arf.html

Seems with a 13x6 I could get in to the 8lb thrust range which would be borderline 3D territory. Not sure this model has the control throws needed to be a contender.

I crammed a OS GT22 into a H-9 Katana 50 which ended up weighing 7.5 lbs AUW so you would be in the mid 6s for that model.
Based on performance feedback from others reported earlier in this thread, for a 5 lb plane, the engine can produce thrust needed for 3D. Where it might get iffy is that you'll have to probably beef up the engine box to handle the vibration which will add weight. That seems to be a common need with small 3D planes designed for glow engines.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:07 PM
  #663
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

I'm not sure where the 10700 on a 13x6 came from. From our numbers and the prop power calculator you get anywhere between 6-7 lbs of static thrust depending on the prop. It's up to your flying style and airframe to determine if that's adequate.

Jimmy.

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ORIGINAL: fly24-7

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Enterprise6

I wonder what this motor on this airframe would be like.

http://www.valuehobby.com/airplanes/...k-540-arf.html

Seems with a 13x6 I could get in to the 8lb thrust range which would be borderline 3D territory. Not sure this model has the control throws needed to be a contender.

I crammed a OS GT22 into a H-9 Katana 50 which ended up weighing 7.5 lbs AUW so you would be in the mid 6s for that model.
Based on performance feedback from others reported earlier in this thread, for a 5 lb plane, the engine can produce thrust needed for 3D. Where it might get iffy is that you'll have to probably beef up the engine box to handle the vibration which will add weight. That seems to be a common need with small 3D planes designed for glow engines.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:10 PM
  #664
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

From this video. 2:20 or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2eX7Yke5ak


By 3D I mean more than 1.5:1 thrust to weight to get punch out of a hover and the ability to do high energy moves. My Katana is close to 2:1. My Mintor 22 power Velox is more like 1.5:1which is floaty and adequate. I know I am probably asking a lot out of this size motor as glow engines really did not cut it, hence the exclusivity of electric in this size for the major manufacturers.

I was also checking out the pilot-rc 53" models as they look like a simple cut off of the motor box and an overlay of some light ply and you could easily mount up this baby. Kind of pricy for a experiment though. The Value hobby looks more economical as well as using inexpensive standard servos.

The seagull model looks like a lot of fun. Like to see a video.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:21 PM
  #665
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

You're right - at 10,650 on an APC 13x6 prop you should be seeing around 8+ lbs of thrust.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:20 PM
  #666
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Quote:
ORIGINAL: jspauld2

You're right - at 10,650 on an APC 13x6 prop you should be seeing around 8+ lbs of thrust.
I don't have one of those props -all my props in that size are the electric s so I can't see the static thrust at 10,700rpm At 4350 ft elevation - i doubt static thrust is that high - just a guess
in looking at comparitive thrust - you must use identical props
when we were doing static thrust tests on the 26 Evolution - we heard all kinds of claims on thrust on various 25/26 gassers - the Evolution using a really good exhaust system-beat em all - we used 18x6 props which allowed 8500 on the ground. 10000 plus in the air on the Showtimes.
the basic layout of the 10 is better than the little reed valve engines
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:48 PM
  #667
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

How do you think a Twist 60 would do with the Evo 10 GX gasser? Getting a bit sick of the nitro scene. I Purchased one and think I may just give it a try on the twist 60.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:22 PM
  #668
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Has anybody had any trouble using the included fuel line as the clunk line ? Mine is so stiff I can't imagine it working. With the clunk installed in a piece of the tubing cut to length for an 8 ounce tank it doesn't even sag under the weight of the clunk [X(]
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:10 AM
  #669
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hance

Has anybody had any trouble using the included fuel line as the clunk line ? Mine is so stiff I can't imagine it working. With the clunk installed in a piece of the tubing cut to length for an 8 ounce tank it doesn't even sag under the weight of the clunk [X(]
I am using it in a Dubro 8 oz tank and it works OK. I had the same concerns, but it I haven't experienced any issues in flight. The tubing must soften up a little or flex more in the gas.

Dave
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:22 AM
  #670
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rmh


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc34074

To
Pete Bergstrom
Saito, Evolution & Zenoah Manager

Pete- please tell me what rpm this engine turns a 13-8 prop, both on the ground and in the air? I see that the website says it will handle a 13-8 so I figure you must have some data to base this on, and I would like to know this because I'm thinking of putting this engine in my 40 size mustang.

Ed
For those who really care -
the prop reading on the ground is TOTALLY independant from in the air readings .

The max power in the air is NOT the same as the max torque available .
The maximum torque available with no muffler and or a muffler or a pipe is again not the same in any of those cases
The best prop for a given type model is a case by case thing -involving the engine- prop and plane and the manner in which it is flown.
When asking about how well the engine will work for YOU- -it is necessary to include all this info.
In the case of the 13x8-on this engine - it would likely be best on a light model which was not intended to be a fast flyer.
The smaller props which allow the engine to run faster are better matched to it - for most sport applications.


Hmm I have read your post and I'm still trying to unerstand what your point might be. If your main point is your last 2 sentences then from the data I have seen you are only thinking of this engine as it might be used in 3d type planes. To me this engine sppears to be capable of many more uses and you are not considering those possibilities. So your statements in those two sentences is wrong. My mustang is light enough that if this engine performs as I have read here then the 10gx would be a good engine for it - maybe even an excellent engine. But if Evolution came out with a 15cc version this would be a superb engfine for 40 size warbirds, especially if they also had a compact inverted pitts muffler for it.

Ed
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:17 AM
  #671
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

I can speak a little to the Seagull Funfly 3D (weighing 5.75lbs) having eight flights so far on it. The first six were with an APC 11x6 (static 12k) which produced unlimited vertical at WOT. The plane flew relatively fast and too fast for the large control surfaces on the Funfly.

Changing to the APC 14x4 funfly prop (static rpm 9K) slowed the plane considerably, allowed more throws and less throttle jockying. It also quieted the engine a good bit. Unlimited vertical required less throttle but a slower ascent. Idle rpms were reduced considerably with the 14x4 from 2500 down to 1700. Landings were transformed from flying it to the deck to stalling it in and were much slower and shorter. With a wing loading of around 16, it simply wouldn't quit flying with the faster idle.

The 14x4 looks big on the plane but has 1.5" of ground clearance when plane is level. If the engine will run cool enough, I prefer it for this airframe.

The only negative noted so far is that a vertical line suffers more left yaw.

If it were a pattern or aerobatic plane, I'd think a 11x8 or 12x6 would be a good choice. If wing loading were in the twenties, it would likely have no problem coming down with a faster prop.

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Old 01-24-2013, 05:34 AM
  #672
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc34074


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rmh


Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc34074

To
Pete Bergstrom
Saito, Evolution & Zenoah Manager

Pete- please tell me what rpm this engine turns a 13-8 prop, both on the ground and in the air? I see that the website says it will handle a 13-8 so I figure you must have some data to base this on, and I would like to know this because I'm thinking of putting this engine in my 40 size mustang.

Ed
For those who really care -
the prop reading on the ground is TOTALLY independant from in the air readings .

The max power in the air is NOT the same as the max torque available .
The maximum torque available with no muffler and or a muffler or a pipe is again not the same in any of those cases
The best prop for a given type model is a case by case thing -involving the engine- prop and plane and the manner in which it is flown.
When asking about how well the engine will work for YOU- -it is necessary to include all this info.
In the case of the 13x8-on this engine - it would likely be best on a light model which was not intended to be a fast flyer.
The smaller props which allow the engine to run faster are better matched to it - for most sport applications.


Hmm I have read your post and I'm still trying to unerstand what your point might be. If your main point is your last 2 sentences then from the data I have seen you are only thinking of this engine as it might be used in 3d type planes. To me this engine sppears to be capable of many more uses and you are not considering those possibilities. So your statements in those two sentences is wrong. My mustang is light enough that if this engine performs as I have read here then the 10gx would be a good engine for it - maybe even an excellent engine. But if Evolution came out with a 15cc version this would be a superb engfine for 40 size warbirds, especially if they also had a compact inverted pitts muffler for it.

Ed
The point was -overpropping it reduces max power - The BUT is - on a slower, lightly loaded model - this may be a perfect match
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:53 AM
  #673
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

rmh -

No prop will reduce the max power of an engine - the max power will not change. Different props will change the rpm of the engine and some pilots such as you will not want that. Also your statement that using a prop at the upper end of their recommended range is overpropping is also wrong - it is only your preconceived idea of how you want to use an engine.

What you say is based on how you like to fly and will lead others down blind alleys, unless they fly your planes the way you want to fly them.

Ed
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:37 AM
  #674
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Default RE: New Evolution 10cc gas engine

Interesting concept.
FWIW- all IC engines are simply air pumps and as such have an rpm envelope where flow is maximized . (maximum torque)
if the engine can not reach this rpm- power is reduced .
Also above this envelope , flow again is reduced - per cycle but may increase over a given time period (rpm)-and HP can increase.
Electric motors don't have these constraints.
max torque can occur at zero rpm
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:10 AM
  #675
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rc34074

rmh -

Also your statement that using a prop at the upper end of their recommended range is overpropping is also wrong -
That is "underpropping".
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